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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 08:46AM

To the best of my recollection, we haven’t had any visitors from TSCC since the start of covid (no “ministering,” HT, VT, etc). During that time, I formally resigned my membership, though my wife is still officially a member (she hasn’t attended for years).

Last night around 8:15-8:30, there was a knock on our door. I wasn’t expecting anyone, but (partially due to curiosity) I answered the door. It was two elders. As soon as I cracked the door the started talking. “Does (my wife’s name) live here? We’re missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and we were checking to see if she’s doing OK.” I just said “it’s late. Come back some other time” and I shut the door before they could respond. My wife thanked me.

Oddly enough, I actually felt a little bit bad about being somewhat abrupt with them. I usually try to be nice to missionaries (because I have been in their shoes long ago).

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 10:31AM

I wouldn't feel bad about it. If you think about it, a neighbor or a friend would not drop by unannounced at night unless it was for something urgent. It's yet another case of Mormons overstepping boundaries.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 10:52AM

Good point. Thanks.

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Posted by: blackcoatsdaughter ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 10:41AM

Also that whole "we were checking to see if she's doing okay." thing bothers me a little, as far as crossing boundaries.

Like I remember being Mormon and thinking this was a normal way to show concern but hearing it from the outside, it begs the question, "why wouldn't she be?" Especially asked of her husband.

"Sir, are you taking proper care of your wife? We're here to make sure she's safe and happy."

Like, it could've been phrased better?

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 10:59AM

I was tempted to say “none of your business,” but in a way, I kinda hope they come back (at a more convenient time). I don’t mind having honest conversations with missionaries. I don’t have any delusions about de-converting them, but I do like to let them know someone who wasn’t offended, isn’t unduly bitter, and doesn’t want to “sin” who had good reasons to leave.

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Posted by: blackcoatsdaughter ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 11:46AM

Fair enough and I agree. That timing was a part of it being an unwelcome visit. They deserve a bit of gentleness because they very likely don't get it very often, even from their leaders.

But funny you should mention those because I personally have always thought they were perfectly reasonable reasons to leave. If you didn't mind a little tangent. Offended is a broad term but it speaks to a certain discomfort, an upset of emotions. They try and frame it like you're weak for not tolerating bad treatment or hurt feelings but honestly, if someone is being offensive, if someone/something is creating contention, I am within my rights to leave. I often say I left because I was offended. I was lied to and manipulated. I had every right to be offended and to leave. Lol.

And wanting to sin. Yes. I was told that my love was a sin. I disagreed. I left to sin because I don't consider it sinning. But if we're going to be technical, the thing I stopped going to church over was indeed on their little list of no-nos. I definitely think wanting to have a shorter list of "Don't's" is reasonable and I don't accept their "Mormonism is default so everything we say is bad really is bad." The simple arrogance of wanting to live life on my own terms is a sin, even though I don't drink, don't do drugs. Even if I wasn't really gay, I'd be sinning for not wanting to go to church. So, yeah, I left to sin; I stopped going to church because I didn't want to go to church anymore. Heh.

As far as bitterness? I have family who wait and watch. When I am happy and doing well, they shake their heads and quietly mutter how I will get my comeuppance, "just you wait and see". I'll be sorry. And every little bad day, stubbed toe, or tragedy is because of God shunning me of blessings. It's good to show them you're not bitter but I don't think they'll ever really see you as happy.

Different things of course but I wouldn't doubt that you can sit down with them and tell them all the good things in your life, projects you're excited about, etc. And in their private meetings, they'll call you bitter, held back by bitterness, heart hardened, etc. For them, there are no good reasons for leaving the one true church.

Not saying don't be kind or don't meet with them if they return. I dunno. It was just a pointless tangent. It is snowing here and I have to go grocery shopping but I don't want to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2023 11:47AM by blackcoatsdaughter.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 12:26PM

“It was just a pointless tangent. It is snowing here and I have to go grocery shopping but I don't want to.”

It was not pointless-I enjoyed reading it. And I hope you got your groceries without too much trouble.

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: March 16, 2023 02:11PM

blackcoatsdaughter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also that whole "we were checking to see if she's
> doing okay." thing bothers me a little, as far as
> crossing boundaries.
>
> ... it begs the question, "why wouldn't
> she be?" Especially asked of her husband.
>
> "Sir, are you taking proper care of your wife?
> We're here to make sure she's safe and happy."
>
> Like, it could've been phrased better?


Yeah! Won't these same guys refuse to even come in if the husband is not home? Due to an overt deference or "protection" of everyone? And yet, now they don't trust the husband, without whom they won't even meet with the woman?

I guess I shouldn't assume that they're not sister missionaries, but the same overarching premise is still valid (IMO).


mormonism:

- double talk
- double standards
- double binds

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 12:38PM

Two observations.

First, some time ago we learned the church is launching a find my sheep program church wide. I am betting we'll see more contacts like this.

Second, I find it interesting this is the second time someone mentioned the church asking how someone is doing. I wonder if this is part of the same strategy?

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Posted by: want2bx ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 03:36PM

I agree. I think it has to do with the find my sheep program. The missionaries stopped by my house this weekend too. In the nine years since I left the church, the missionaries have never come until now.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: March 18, 2023 08:00AM

Right. IIRC, the "finding the lost sheep" program is targeting people who haven't attended within the past ten years.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 12:44PM

The best parts of my mission were people rejecting us. I needed to hear their reasons. I needed to see the looks on their faces. Especially when it came from people who clearly liked their lives and themselves. They made me realize subconsciously that they had more to offer me than me them. I was the one who wanted to know more.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 01:25PM

What provisions have been made, on behalf of these missionary messengers, in terms of the responses given to their opening volley, "We're checking to see how you/he/she/it are doing?"

At least they have permission to give some help, like with yard work.  Back in my day there was no such provision; doing service for one person or family meant that other people were being 'cheated' out of the opportunity to hear our message.

What if the response to the 'how ya doing?' question was, "Not good..." and then a woeful tale ensued?  Has anything been added to their arsenal other than what would have been our response, "We'll pray for you..."?

Or is it expected by the COB that *caring* is all that it takes...along with encouragement to take the steps that lead to paying tithing?

How great is the temptation to respond to a tale of woe with, "Well, maybe if you'd been centered on the covenant path, none of that would have happened!"

What would be impressive is a double-your-money-back-if-you're-not-satisfied guarantee...

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 02:42PM

Me, wishing my brain was working on 'Fast & Clever Mode' two seconds after I would have closed the door on the missionaries: "She's doing fine--she's tied up in basement right where I left her."

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Posted by: shortbobgirl ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 03:11PM

This is perfect

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: March 13, 2023 11:01PM

I have been wanting them to knock on my door so I can invite them in for some Southern style sweet tea or to let them know that I just put a fresh pot of coffee on the stove :)

I have a fridge full of Bud to share.

If that's too much I have some coke and pepsi to taunt them too.

Unfortunately, they only come by to park their missionary vehicle in front of my house before walking up the street.

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Posted by: onthedownlow ( )
Date: March 15, 2023 11:26AM

Chicken N. Backpacks, that is mad funny! lol

CrispingPin, Like the others have commented, this is not their concern at that hour of the evening uninvited. The whole idea of them asking you about your wife like that, in that hour, uninvited, is intrusive and lacks empathy.

To be honest, it sounds like a love triangle or a porn movie parody. Just like the church says "the appearance of evil" you have every right to flip the script and inquire of the elders, the mission president, and the bishop, "who is messing around with my wife?" Not that she is, but the "appearance" is disruptive to your home and private time. They don't own her nor do they represent her for health related inquiries from medical staff when she is unconscious. "Does she have any allergies, is she diabetic, is she constipated?"

"NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS SON AND DO YOU EVEN KNOW MY WIFE, 19 YEAR OLD? ARE U A LICENSED MARRAIGE COUNCELLOR, HAVE YOU BEEN MARRIED, ARE YOU PRACTICING LAW ENFORCEMENT OR DO YOU THINK YOU ARE ABOVE THE LAW?"

I hated doing stuff like that on my mission, it sucked. I felt like I was being a snoop and putting my nose into others sacred business where mine did not belong. Then I had to report back sunday mornings on said person/family. That is stalking people.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: March 15, 2023 09:41PM

They returned the next day. They came earlier in the evening, and there were three of them. My wife was out for dinner with a few of her friends. I politely refused to tell them a good time to come back.

After simply ignoring TSCC for many years, my wife is now considering officially resigning her membership.

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Posted by: I ( )
Date: March 15, 2023 10:31PM

Good news! Great-

First of all, three!!! Alarm fire-

Tell them the new protocol (of the house) [for Health (C-19.../), Scheduling/ Convenience/ Preparation/ Respect...] is to ALWAYS Call First!

ASK US, is it a good time? When would be a good time...

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: March 18, 2023 02:14AM

I've been out of the church for so long, I can hardly remember. I still hang out here because I am fond of the community.

My favorite door greeting for missionaries is "Oh. Were we expecting you?" And of course, we weren't.

The church is getting clever by using tele-visits. We currently have a pair of sister-mishies in our area, and they can't visit my BIC DH unless I am there. They don't want to deal with me because I am an apostate. But it has been so long, I no longer feel any hostility toward them. They are welcome. But they don't buy that. Maybe they feel that apostasy is catching, like COVID of the spirit.

Just sayin'.

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Posted by: Out and about ( )
Date: March 16, 2023 12:30PM

I also am kind as some missionaries are such sweet people. You know what though? As with most LDS inc people..they don't care about your wife as a human being. They care about whether or not she goes to church. You did fine.

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Posted by: darth jesus ( )
Date: March 18, 2023 05:04AM

i'm polite with them. they are kids barely out of high school. i smile, thank them for the gesture, and move on. it takes me 30 seconds. we were like them once upon a time. they'll be like us in the not so distant future. be kind. it's free!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 18, 2023 05:58AM

Nicely said.

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Posted by: blackcoatsdaughter ( )
Date: March 19, 2023 09:50AM

Been feeling my closet anti-Mormonism tested recently.

The missionaries finally paid me a visit yesterday! After 4 years, finally someone is like, "wait, where did she go?" The lead mishie asked me, "Been by the church in a minute?" Or something very similar. I made him repeat it because it was odd phrasing and I wanted to be sure I was getting it correct.

I told them I am a happy lesbian and the church doesn't really fit with my lifestyle. That seemed to sober them up a bit, like something grave had been revealed. But I thanked them and teased them about their names(nicely, so they laughed) and they left.

They had also asked me if I knew anyone that I could invite to church on Easter. I pretended to think about it but then told them no.

My father mentioned repentance to me yesterday also. I was talking about regret and he jumped right in about why repentance is amazing. I will continue to ignore these instances of borderline doctrinal conversation as if he were a toddering old man bursting out with meaningless nonsense in the middle of conversation. "Uh-huh. So, anyway..."

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