They are permanently donating 20,000 acre feet to GSL. That's a long way from the million or so acre feet the lake needs in a dry year, but it is more than just a drop in the bucket. It's roughly 2%.
I don’t know if the church was using the water, or selling it. I suspect the latter, just based on how they do business in general. I seriously doubt it was running into the lake. Users with junior water rights would have been happy to take or sell the water if a senior rights user did not use/sell it.
In an article last week the Trib reported that an acre foot of water sells for between $150 to $2,000 an acre foot, so the donation is worth somewhere between $1.5 million to $20 million a year.
Why was the church able to buy so many water rights?
I own the water rights for my property in Idaho Falls. When we sell, I will also turn over the water rights. I suppose I could be a jerk and keep them to control and possibly sell later, right?
I'm curious if the church owns the land associated with the rights or just the rights. Why is the church involved in this kind of thing at all? Tying to understand.
I knew a guy who claimed the church retains every right that they can on land they control regardless of ownership. I think it stems from mineral control.
I think this is correct. I attended a Mantua city council meeting several years ago. An LDS church agent was there to talk about certain water rights. He said it is the policy of the church to NOT to sell water rights.
I went to church with a guy that worked in the church finance department.
The church gets plenty of their water rights from donations. Lots of estates get donated\gifted to the church at death. Its a big image thing to give ones land and water rights to the church. My grandfather did it, and it was no small parcel of land to begin with.
Anyway the friend said two things happen. If the land has no real value or purpose to the church, its sold ASAP and banked. However, water rights are a different thing......you can transfer them. So I have no doubt the church has transferred water rights to their farms. So those rights they donated are probably in excess of what they need to generate revenues from their farms and ranches. So its a PR move.
But in this case I am OK with that, we need to try to maintain and stabilize the GSL.
Water rights usually run with the land, so you can’t keep ‘em if you move, dag :-p
A neighbor called the cops on me when I was running my pump. I had to stop work, get the deed and the water rights cert, meanwhile he was googling “riparian” on his phone, and I was like, damn city kid. Or stupid.
I lose my rights if I don’t pump once every five years, and it’s a pain in the ass because I need a ridiculous amount of total head lift.
I had no idea. We had to obtain it separately after we bought the house and land. We were so dumb we didn't know they were a thing. The well is on our property so it would make sense they come together. The previous owner had to be contacted to sign them over. He had moved to NY so I was a bit worried if he wouldn't agree.
Yeah. My cert. is in the name of the person who obtained it from the state. For me, it’s on my deed, but the name on the cert. will never change. Before that, there were no limits, and the guy before me had a calf. I don’t want a calf, but it would be nice to think about it. :)
I think my limit is 0.05 cubic acres of water, but I don’t have to have a meter because my property is not used for commercial agriculture and it’s small.
I just make sure to time it so I don’t jack up any runs or river otters and their pups, and I run it for maybe 30 minutes if that. If we’re in a drought, it happens!, I leave it alone for the year.
When settlers first came to what is now Utah, the church owned everything. They still own the largest amount of the best water rights. They make huge profit in selling and controlling water rights. The city of North Las Vegas gets its water from the church. Good business.
You mean like the water rights to plots of land sold to housing developers, where the people buying the homes have any idea that water rights exist? which they don't, since the land was sold...
Are there instances in which "junior water rights" holders are told that because of hydrology reports of less than adequate winter storms, they will not be eligible to use their water rights for the upcoming year?
Yes, also the possibility that some or all of the plots are located in inhospitable places like the edge of the Great Salt Lick and hence already saline beyond practical utility.
Until we know the location, the quality of the land and water, and its seniority in law, we don't know the value of the church's gift. It could be a lot or it could be very little.
I've talked about it before. We wanted to keep the field that wasn't used to grow anything, but my brothers hunted there. It is on the edge of the GSL. There are a few duck clubs out that way. The water rights are what hung up the ability to divide the farm up and it wasn't cheap.
The guy who bought it my father mentored. I didn't know that. I knew he knew my dad. I got to talk to him last spring when I went to the farm. He let us have the mineral rights. They've talked about drilling for oil out there. The lower fields closer to the lake would bubble when we'd hoe beets and those spots didn't have any beets of course.
I don't ever remember my dad not being able to irrigate in drought years.
Water rights are hard to come by and worth a lot. My "husband" just said that he doesn't think the church has stake farms anymore. Does anyone know? P.S. The farm was in the family from when they homesteaded it.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2023 04:44PM by cl2.
My grandparents owned quite a bit of land and some of it was right up next to Big Cottonwood Creek.
To make a long story short, they had spring water for their culinary needs. Since back then, and probably now as well, water is worth more than gold.
The powers that be wanted to get the water rights and access to the creek.
They offered pennies on the dollar to my grandparents, and they refused the offer. They were then sent a threatening letter telling them to accept or else they were going to be thrown in prison.
I have all of the original paperwork, including the letter.
The paperwork stated that only blood descendants had "perpetual" rights to the creek water, which is owned by Salt Lake City Water. I am the only living blood descendant.
The person who bought the land was planning to build a home there and live there. But, he not being a "descendant", did not have any right to the creek water. He asked to be hooked up to the water, and they said that it would cost him $90,000.
At least I have gotten one thing out of all of this; the original paperwork: suitable for framing. ;)
The map in this link shows where the water they just donated is - west of the airport between there and the lake. A look at the satellite view on google maps shows only a relatively small area of agriculture exits there, so most of the water they donated iswater they probably aren't planning on using anyway.
My brother lived in Brigham City and had irrigation ditch water. What I remember it was so many inches of water, for so many minutes on a certain time and day of the week.
The inches were the width on a weir that directed the water to his yard. He flood irrigated his lawn.
His time was like 2:00 am, I asked if he had to change the weir when his time was up. He said no, it was up to the next water owner to take control.
Brother said there were a few times when he wake up with a flood yard.