I am a Mormon. Have been my whole life 60yrs. I no longer attend as i don't feel the church is true to its own teachings. I cannot shake the feelings of betrayal. I have asked to be removed as a member and they just told me i would lose every blessing and convenant i have made. Can anyine help me to recover my sence of self. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

When you say "Its own teachings " what exactly do you have problems with?

I do believe the teachings are right but i think the church has lost its way, become money oriented, selfish and hypocritical. i feel when i took covenants they are real and remain with me, but i did not make them covenants with the church i made my covenants with God. How can the church take them away?

I was born into the covenant. Never missed a day of church until I was nearing 40. Went on a mission, was in a bishopric, did the home teaching, youth activities, tithing, fast offerings, callings, service projects, temple attendance, etc.

Like you as time went on it was no longer like it had been while growing up, everything changed, it all became based on money and who you knew. Mormonism treated me like a leper beginning about 40 because I was independent and would not snap to attention.

Then I began to research and found websites like Mormon Think and CES letter. Once I put everything together, it was obvious I had been duped. Several years ago my final straw was a controlling arrogant bishop.

So I walked away, I just stopped attending, I stopped thinking Mormon and started thinking me. I have never resigned. I have never explained myself. I have not informed my brothers and sisters. I just stopped! I carry on the way I always have. I have maintained the same standards that I always have, because I want to, its who I am to the core. I found that religion does not make you, instead you make yourself. My wife has let me be, and I have never explained myself. She knows, especially since that arrogant bishop treated her no differently than me.

I have not missed attending church and I could care less about temple attendance. I still have all received when I was a member, and I strongly believe (true or not) that nobody can take them away from me. Nobody has power over me, on this planet.

So I simply do not care what the church thinks or says. I am clear of guilt, as well as many of us here on this site. You are fine, and yes do you feel betrayed....absolutely. Does it bother you now.....yes it will.

But as you discover life after religion, you will eventually come to peace of mind. Just do not let others guilt you.....ever!

Remember,people are running things within the Church with devine sanction and left with enough rope to hang themselves. According to modern scripture if the Gentiles screw things up bad enough it will be handed to others. Have Faith in that promise!

PHIL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Remember,people are running things within the
> Church with devine sanction and left with enough
> rope to hang themselves. According to modern
> scripture if the Gentiles screw things up bad
> enough it will be handed to others. Have Faith in
> that promise!

PHIL: Telling a departing/ed ex-member to have faith is very likely not all that helpful. Plus it's not in line with the basic guidelines of this forum.

If your entire approach to life is "have faith" (in a specific church's teachings) then you are doomed to have to accept whatever they dish out which may not be what a person needs or wants or what would benefit them.

If you have been a faithful member for a good portion of your life and you begin to wonder what the heck is going on with this church and its teachings the healthy approach is to think about it, not to just stay in line and follow along without addressing your questions or sense of discomfort.

Wondering about things, asking questions, rethinking one's journey are all positives, especially if something arises that prompts you to re-examine your path.

Sometimes, for some people, squelching questions and doing the same old same old just doesn't work any more.

It's healthy for adults to re-evaluate their beliefs and goals. For many, it's decidedly unhelpful to hear trite phrases like "have faith" because that doesn't address their questions.

And many have had faith but at some point begin to see things differently or to develop different goals that often result in a course change. That is something to be explored, not squelched.


andrewandy said: "Can anyine help me to recover my sence of self."

I think there's no quick fix. Hopefully, if you read more posts on this site you will get a sense of other viewpoints, after having been a Mormon for so long.

There are exit stories on the site too that can be very helpful to a newly exiting person.

I wasn't born into Mormonism but joined for a brief period of time. I can't fully relate to a born-in person's situation but I know it can take time and effort, understandably, to formulate one's own worldview. What do *you* think, and feel, and want for your own life from now on apart from the religious teachings you've been immersed in?

It can hurt deeply at present and especially if friends and family are not understanding or even reject you. But there is always hope that you will find answers and life will be more positive and enjoyable. You can figure it out for yourself and not be bound by what others tell you is the truth (mostly about things they can't ever really know for sure).

I know it can be very disappointing and hurtful when fellow members in any organization, especially church, change how they view you if you start asking questions and even turn their backs on your friendship and fellowship. But it can be well worth it to keep on asking your questions and finding your own answers from a variety of sources. You can start to formulate your own opinions and examine your feelings and devise a new philosophy for your life going forward.

Often, what seems like the worst thing (loss of friendship, fellowship, beliefs, traditions, a sense of certainty) can turn out to be the best thing as you choose your own path, perhaps for the first time, and explore your own thoughts, feelings and opinions.

At the top of the board you will see a section "Go To". Select "Forum List". There you will see a Bio section where you can read accounts from former Mormons about why they left and how they continued on with their lives apart from the church. It may be very helpful to you. I hope so. Good luck! And look forward to what can be an exciting new time in your life.

Nightingale, it seems you are reading too much into it - and are seeing something that isn't even there - and miss the point (joke) entirely.

Steping back to take another look: "Remember,people are running things within the Church with devine sanction and left with enough rope to hang themselves. According to modern scripture if the Gentiles screw things up bad enough it will be handed to others. Have Faith in that promise!"

That it'll be handed to others... and the meek will inherit the earth... Etc.

Nothing was said about faith in TMC.

IOW, it was (probably) a joke

It was no joke. Evidently he still believed in God and his covenants.
I don't think I crossed the line here. I know many of you here saw him as a potential convert and were a little overzealous in your efforts.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I remember clearly how painful it was when my shelf broke. I don't want to say something pithy like it gets better with time, but time did give me legroom to process my pain and get back in touch with the real me.

It is coming. That relief for you. That feeling when it suddenly relaxes in your shoulders and you just realize the spiteful god of Mormonism isn't watching you, counting your every errant thought. That feeling of the box dropping its walls and you look out at the shining horizon and endless possibilities on how to define yourself.

I had hobbies and talents before I left Mormonism and really embraced them after. But I also took up new things. I started learning a new language(Duolingo is free!), playing an instrument(I never had before), and exercising to get myself healthy. And I feel differently now, doing these things for me rather than trying to please a god or trying to make myself a better tool for the "kingdom". Start with what is right in front of you. Start with enjoying the little things in life and realizing their truth and purity of meaning for YOU.

blackcoatsdaughter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I had hobbies and talents before I left Mormonism
> and really embraced them after.

I am so glad that you and others had hobbies and other interests beyond the church. I always felt that the church did its best to discourage people from being part of their community and clubs.

My goodness, I used to go fishing with my father and I was told to stop wasting time in nonsense.

That sounds like a good approach. I do have hobbies and interests away from the church but i feel i am loosing far more by walking away than i am by staying. I can't reconcil my beliefs which is making me unwell. How do you deal with that?

andrewandy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That sounds like a good approach. I do have
> hobbies and interests away from the church but i
> feel i am loosing far more by walking away than i
> am by staying. I can't reconcil my beliefs which
> is making me unwell. How do you deal with that?

I guess that it's easier when you are shown the door. I was told to stop calling members of the stake presidency after my house burned down. I was told that my house didn't look too bad- hey concrete walls are standing with no roof. The bishop drove by it at night and I lived on a dark street at the time. Ultimately, the church told me to go pound sand- Hey count your blessings. They never asked what I needed- I was told that my family could help.

I decided that I don't need a church or LDS Corp real estate company masquerading as a church. I can pray for anyone, bless anyone. I don't need anyone's permission.

During the pandemic, my TBM mom lamented (she's widowed) that the bishop refused to come by and give her sacrament. I live 3000 miles away but I told her to break her own bread with water and I would read the sacrament prayers for her- I'm her apostate son who would do that over the phone.

You can be happy without someone deciding what you can and can not do. It may take some time but don't let any church/organization decide for you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2023 02:59PM by messygoop.

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> During the pandemic, my TBM mom lamented (she's
> widowed) that the bishop refused to come by and
> give her sacrament. I live 3000 miles away but I
> told her to break her own bread with water and I
> would read the sacrament prayers for her- I'm her
> apostate son who would do that over the phone.

Sad.

I'm glad you did that. Good son.

Reconcile your beliefs? I'm not sure I follow.

My journey was discovering the gospel topics essays on the official church website. Almost every single one of them were on topics and controversies that I had been taught were "anti-Mormon lies" made by enemies of the church. Yet here the church was, admitting to the truth of these things or justifying them, trying to frame them in ways to get me to accept them.

Polygamy actually DID happen, according to the church and Joseph Smith had many wives, as many as 34. I was sold a different picture of Smith as a devoted father and husband, so crazy in love with his wife Emma. I was taught that if polygamy was practiced by the early saints, it was men marrying widows who's husbands had died, or young women who simply needed men in their lives to represent and protect them. The church admits that some of the wives Smith had were very young girls who had church active parents, women who's husbands he'd sent away on missions, and mother-daughter and sister pairs who's enfolding into his family line was redundant by marrying both.

I was not taught the story of the seer stone as translation of the book of Mormon. I was born in the covenant. I was married in the temple at 19. I even went to BYU Idaho in 2018 in my 30's. They DID NOT teach me about the seer stone at any time. But now there's an article of the church claiming that they taught this all along and it was my fault for getting confused by how it was done.

I could go on, through every essay in that section and tell you how I cried and wept, "that's not what they taught me! Where is this coming from? Why are these hidden away like this?"

I do not believe the Mormon church is true in any capacity. And it started with learning that I had been deliberately lied to. They told me to trust them, that they'd never lead me astray, and yet here were things they had kept hidden from me. And they often in these articles come right out and state that any betrayal I felt was MY fault because they've been transparent the whole time. Trying to make me feel like maybe it was my fault for thinking one thing when told explicitly in lessons taught from manuals.

That...to me, cannot be reconciled with the church being true and yet the leaders being manipulative and deceptive. I don't want to follow a god where his most highest servants are instructed to hide things or manipulate the history or obscure it. The god I had been following, that I had a testimony of, was contrasted from the adversary BY his openness and the obviousness of the truth. Yet here I was left feeling confused and deceived by my leaders.

I researched everything I could get my hands on, all of the different topics that were bothering me. Until I knew without a doubt that Joseph Smith was a liar and an evil man. I'm a skeptic, so, I'll leave it open that there is a possibility that the picture might not have its full pieces. But I also researched a lot about Christianity as well, trying to salvage my faith afterwards, and I can say for sure, I wouldn't worship the Mormon or Christian god. I think that being does not wish good things for humanity if it exists and has said and done the things it's servants have told.

So, reconcile beliefs? I decided my morality is of higher important than ever being a blind follower ever again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2023 06:45PM by blackcoatsdaughter.

Re reconciling beliefs.

I think that for some people the end comes in a big whoosh and they move on from there.

For others, it takes time to unpick it all and develop their own philosophy of life and new beliefs/values.

I've read posts here from people who were thrilled to trip over the facts and realize from one moment to the next that they could make their own choices and the first one was to leave the church. Conversely, for others, for various reasons, the process takes longer and hurts more.

I can relate to the need to pick through it all and take time to choose to leave.

In both my exits from high-demand religions (JWs and then Mos) it was a feeling thing first and from one second to the next I knew I was leaving. After that I picked it all apart to figure it out, why I joined, why I left, what I would do next.

I never planned to join another non-mainstream religion after the WatchTower Society interlude. (To me, there are several significant similar negative features within JWs and Mormonism). I learned one thing for sure from my negative experiences with each - that it's a bad idea to check your brain at the door and accede to the demand to obey without question. For me, Mormonism was JW-lite. That could vary for others. What does it tell you that the Mormon Church seemed like a positively completely free choice group compared to the JWs who don't even want you as a member unless you promise extreme obedience and accept their oversight in every aspect of your life. Of course, with both groups you don't really know what you're promising until you get into it and find out that they think they have oversight of your life and choices forevermore.

I don't think you can rush it. It takes however long it takes, depending on the individual, perhaps how much they invested in it, what it meant to them, their experience with the group, their personality and their own beliefs and values if different from the group (likely they are or maybe they wouldn't have left).

Good luck with the process. I hope you find some information and support here as you deal with the aftermath of your decision to leave.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2023 09:01PM by Nightingale.

It took the laying on of hands to give you those blessings. It will only take pushing a button on a computer keyboard to remove them. Mormon magic is like Disney magic. It only works if you believe.

What betrayal? The church betrayed you by manipulating you into giving it your time and money. Because it's a business. A real estate empire masquerading as a religion. It has the intellectual depth of a five-year-old's tea party. Why feel bad about walking away from the tea party?

They got inside your head to form a codependent relationship. You don't have any obligation to stay in an abusive relationship. You do have an obligation to leave.

"i would lose every blessing and convenant i have made"

I understand you are going through a rough time but you can't lose something that was never real.

They took sixty years from you. Don't let them take a single day more. Take the truth and run with it. From where I'm sitting, 60 is very young. Plenty of time for a happy ending?


They can't take what they never gave you. You can ritually throw away the imaginary "blessings" as others have pointed out they are. I threw a pair of garments out the window on the freeway. I burned my mission journal and every other bit of token of a covenant symbolically. They don't ditch you--you ditch them. They took more than they ever gave you. Their threats are hollow control tactics and that attempt at controlling you should make you angry. Anger is a good way to reclaim yourself. Well controlled anger of course.

I know someone who took the Miracle of Forgiveness and threw it in the fireplace one page at a time. Cleansing somehow. What a real baptism is. Or an un-baptism? Again, symbolically undoing the damage.

Thanks for your interest. I am not here to bash Mormonism. I am sure its good for some but not for me.

I hope you find whatever you are looking for. All I can suggest is:

Study relentlessly- everything. Check the facts.

Be kind and true to yourself. You are not responsible for the church. Many cherry pick what works and leave the rest.

Find hobbies you love and spend lots of time appreciating nature. It's a big world out there. Directly serve others in ways that have nothing to do with church.

Spend actual quality time with your family and people you care about.

Time is precious. The church has helped make you who you are, but you also need to explore who you are individually.

Good luck and happy trails!

I want to know, have you ever seen the rain?

Mormons are fair weather friends. Come the rain, see where they go.

My friends stick with me through hurricanes. They are not LDS.

Mormonism is good for those who don't care who Mormonism is hurting.

Fascism was good for some. Whites only drinking fountains were "good for some".

I don't cut Mormon's slack.

andrewandy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a Mormon. Have been my whole life 60yrs. I no
> longer attend as i don't feel the church is true
> to its own teachings.

So you’re good with a God who ‘cursed’ two entire races of people with dark skin so the righteous (white) race wouldn’t intermix with them and pollute their white and delightsome bloodlines, because of the sins of their fathers?

And you’re good with Joseph Smith treating women like breed stock to spread his righteous seed, even in his follower’s wives and teenage daughters?

> I cannot shake the feelings
> of betrayal. I have asked to be removed as a
> member and they just told me i would lose every
> blessing and convenant i have made.

So what? Apparently those suicidal oaths we swore to God to perform if we revealed the secrets we heard in the temple were not ‘essential to our exaltation’ when the church removed them without explanation back in the 90’s, so why should you care about them?

> Can anyine
> help me to recover my sence of self. Any help
> would be greatly appreciated.

#1. Quit identifying your self as Mormon if you no longer want to associate yourself with Mormons.

#2. Find a better alternative world view. (Hint: Almost any worldview is an improvement upon the white supremacist, racist, misogynist, hateful views of ‘others’ Joseph’s Myth is founded upon.)

#3. Find interests outside of the CULT you inherited.

#4. Seek community with those around you in real life, neighbors, colleagues and family and friends.

Good luck!

The Cat is a mormon basher and feels he has good reason to be. I imagine that he is speaking about the church church, not the people in the church; there are individual mormons who may deserve bashing, but the majority don't.

I agree with your sentiment about still being a mormon. I follow the Word of Wisdom, but not out of belief, it's just a habit, and I'm cheap. (When I see people paying $10 for a pack of cigarettes in CA, I'm literally astounded!!)

You and I grew up in a church that was pretty darn good, generally speaking, for taking care of its own. That church doesn't exist anymore. Good mormon folk still exist, but based on the church's new fiscal goals, such people can't rise up in the hierarchy because they don't fit.

When you read the Articles of Faith, it makes the church look good, but when you realize that they pick and chose which Articles to practice, it makes it possible to do what you and I did, walk away from participation in what became of the church we once felt a part of.

We didn't leave the church, the church left us. At least, that's how I see it.

And that leaves most of us with the need to define just what it is we're going to do with the rest of our lives. For me, being an Exmo is part of that deal, especially as the church moves further and further from the church that raised me; mormonism needs bashing because, as it's being practiced, it's a scam and a money pit.

Regarding how to recover... It's an individual process; you're likely to be successful, and when you are, you can post your story just in case it helps someone else. I think that's about the best any of us can do...and have done.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Cat is a mormon basher and feels he has good
> reason to be.

If you had my experience with the Doomsday CULT enabling and covering up the abuse of your childhood friends, your loved ones and your children’s friends, you might want to reduce it to rubble too.

My journey out of Mormonism began with noticing and accepting the hypocrisy of the watered down teachings, the failure to hold to its own standards and the corruption of the covering to protect the image of the church.

When Hinkley was being interviewed on national television and denied being a prophet as well as denying basic church doctrine it was over for me.

When in general conference the church said to pay tithing even if you couldn't afford rent, food, medicine or other necessities.

When the church said in general conference that if you were sexually abused you needed to talk with church leaders to determine your responsibility in causing the abuse and repent.

When I personally uncovered a high level church leader skimming money off a church building project I was told to repent.

When the church decided that interviewing children as young as seven and asking them about their sexual activity was essential to their salvation I knew I could never raise my kids in Mormonism.

Added to that, the suppression of church history and new directives to members that had nothing to do with religion but were made to exert control and I chose go walk away.

It took time to undo decades of church habits, but little by little, almost unconsciously, the habits changed or fell away.

Realize you are now living for yourself. Embrace it.

As far as church teachings, my opinion is this. If it is true, the church has fallen. Once I die all I can do is present my case fo Father. I can explain why I could no longer support an organization that justifies abuse of children and stockpiles wealth on the backs of people going without basic necessities and then let the chips fall where they may.

You said that they told you that you will lose every covenant and blessing that you've made.

That is how the church and any other cult works: through fear.

Like Done & Done, I got rid of my garments and temple clothes. I cut them up into tiny pieces. I thought the earth was going to swallow me up, but to my relief... it didn't.

The teachings are not true, nor are they moral.

Polygamy was, and is illegal in this country, but that didn't stop JS from coming up with D&C 132 that gave him and any other interested party the green light to go ahead and mess around on their lawfully wedded wives.

BY brought the pioneers to Utah Territory under false pretenses.
He wanted to have his own kingdom and rule as a supreme tyrant over them. Which brings up the Mountain Mountain Massacre which was committed by faithful Latter Day Saints.

Then there's the prejudiced teachings and wrongs committed against Gays and People of Color.

The church leaders have over 110 Billion dollars in their coffers
because fools like me paid tithing thinking that you have to buy your ticket to the celestial kingdom.

The temple is about two things: Polygamy, and the dead.
When you think about it, doing work for the dead is communicating with "familiar spirits", which is not exactly a good thing.

So in other words, they teach that adultery is okay, dealing with familiar spirits and the occult is okay, and lying for the Lord is okay, because after all, the end justifies the means.

There are many more rabbit holes to explore and these are just a few examples.

Enjoy your life and freedom now as you bid the church Bye Bye.

What "blessings" are you afraid of losing?

The "blessing" of being a permanent indentured servant to the church doesn't seem so great, especially when you're literally paying for the "blessing." The "blessing" of handing over your money, free time, identity, etc. to a controlling fear-based organization also doesn't seem appetizing.

The mormon church doesn't have a monopoly on families, even though it claims to do so without evidence. Every boastful claim it makes is patently self-serving, designed to keep you in its merciless clutches.

Their promises and threats are empty. Any "covenants" you made (both baptismal and temple) are null and void because they were likely made under emotional duress, plus you weren't provided the information needed to give proper consent. Further, the church, through its dishonesty and lack of integrity, has effectively broken the covenants themselves. When you understand that, it will be easier to break free of the church and its fear- and guilt-based mindset.

Recovery is not easy BUT it is worth it.

I was BIC and an RM. I didn't leave until I was 38. I remember feeling a great loss when I left. I felt like a hollow person who had no identity. The church had provided me with that and with a moral code. It took me years to figure out all of this stuff for myself. All of my TBM family members are now well aware that I think the mormon church is a cult. It took me years to realize that. At least now I'm well on the other side of it.


I can empathize with your desire to see the good in the church while also acknowledging that the ones in charge have lost their way. This reminds me of the story of William Law (2nd councilor to Joseph Smith and author of the Nauvoo Expositor). He felt that Joseph had lost his way or was a fallen prophet. It took him a while to realize that the whole thing was a sham. If you haven't looked into the story of the Nauvoo Expositor please do. It is something you have missed your whole life and it will be quite illuminating for you.

andrewandy, do you honestly really believe in the book of mormon and the whole ball of wax that the LDS empire sells you on?

It's an all or nothing deal. E. T. Benson said it best, "it's either true or false".

I know it is 100% false and I don't care what any members threaten me with or try to scare me.

"step away from the vehicle." She told all of us in the group.

I went through a lot because of my gay/straight marriage, but I knew beforehand and had to deal with leaders including a letter I wrote to Packer as a bishop who was a friend told me to write to him as he had read the talk "To The One." This was in 1983.

My life experience dealing with the leaders blew my mind. I'm here to bash mormonism. My daughter is TBM. Only grandchild of my parents' who is still mormon. Well, she went back. Only one sibling of mine is mormon of 6 of us.

I was the devout one. My parents argued over whose fault it was I left, but they were very supportive of me when they found out what I dealt with with the leaders. They were furious.

I proved it to myself. It isn't true. My exmo therapist said he and I tested mormonism to its very limits and it failed us. EXACTLY! I still have people ask me if I really don't believe and why and I've been inactive/resigned since 1994 or so.

Stop going to church. Stop taking callings and on and on. If you distance yourself from the church, it will fall apart. The indoctrination goes away when you get some space. I'm not worried in the least about my covenants, etc. How can you covenant when it is all a life?

Quit (everything) Mormon ism!

Today Is The First Day Of The Rest Of Your Life (unknown)

Always start fresh (Mormonism was always so stale)!

NEVER think of it!

Just think inside yourself, outside yourself, and despite yourself, if that's possible, or even sensible. What you like. Who you are. How you imagine...

It's all about creating...
Rather than following false possibilities.
Experiment. Dream. Test. Stretch. Explore.

Don't bite off more than you can chew!

Best of luck-

You graduate from school. You retire from your job. Ask yourself, why can you not graduate or retire from the church? After a period of time, did you ever learn anything new there, or at the temple? Did you not spend enough time, even decades, doing service as directed by the church? Did you not give the church more than enough money, which it evidently has no use for? How about spending the latter part of your life living it as you see fit?

You may or may not want to go deeper down the rabbit hole. If you do, a good place to start is the website Mormon Think, which presents both the faithful point of view alongside the questioning point of view.

http://www.mormonthink.com/

The CES Letter was written by a former Church Education System teacher, and outlines his problems with the church.

https://cesletter.org/

We can be here for you wherever you are at on your jouney. Just know that no church owns you, that you are a free person, and that you can determine your own destiny.

I feel your pain brother...it’s so painful to discover you might have been duped..it takes grieving as much as losing a dear friend...really your just losing who you are...who you identified as...the bargaining takes over!!...the best imo is to immerse yourself in study...replace those faulty beliefs with the knowledge they are just that faulty...they no longer serve you..but you must decide whether it’s true or not for you...it isn’t..it never was never will be..Smith was a charlatan...a parasite a plagiarizer..IMO after weeks of study it just isn’t true...it’s hard for members to think on their own...Mormonism is spoon fed you from the cradle..he’ll they even say your thinking has been done...good luck on your journey...the end is way better than the beginning...a letter to my wife is a great place to start...CES letter is great but definitely a different tone ..it’s ok to grieve

You are NOT a Mormon. You are YOU.

be you and be happy. And free!