Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: April 06, 2023 07:26PM

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/idaho-bans-gender-affirming-care-transgender-youth/

The boundaries of Gilead just keep expanding.
Good thing people can still travel across state lines to get the healthcare they need. With 50% of Trans Youth considering suicide in the last year, it seems like these 12 states would rather Trans kids were dead.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/16/us-trans-non-binary-youth-suicide-mental-health

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: April 06, 2023 08:37PM

Less than 2% of the population, it's a problem looking for a solution -- if you are rational.

If you are a maniacal religious fundamentalist, hate is what keeps you warm at night.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 06, 2023 08:59PM

I'm waiting for them to get after the true Satanic, the unholy hiding in plain sight in our heathen society, the left-handed!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: April 07, 2023 02:39AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: April 07, 2023 02:42AM

how come wedding bands are placed on the LEFT ring finger which we all know is directly connected to the heart? Hunh? Hunh?

Explain THAT!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 07, 2023 11:01AM

Being close to the heart, the ring finger on the left hand will heal quicker.

Heal from what?  From the deleterious effects of a good marriage.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: April 08, 2023 01:14AM

:)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: April 08, 2023 01:39AM

Isn't gender affirming care kind of a new thing? What did trans people do 100 years ago?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dogbloggernli ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 08:28PM

Probably mostly killed themselves.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 07:44PM

I firmly support this. Trans youth need mental health support...not gender-affirming care. At 18, if that is still their path, more power to them..

We should NOT be internally and externally changing a YOUTH'S sex. Let them do this when they are adults and the decision is theirs' alone..

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 08:15PM

Would you prefer dead kids to trans kids?

No group is more at risk for suicide than Transgender youth.

“Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth.”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/

Preventing them from transitioning seems like you’d end up with more dead kids.

Any way to avoid that tragedy is good with me.

I have a niece, who up until recently was my nephew. She is 21 now but she came out as trans to her parents 3yrs ago. They urged her to take it slow. And move out and get a job before transitioning. She has and only recently came out to the rest of us. I think that is probably the best time for one to transition, if that’s the way they are, despite the difficulties in this day and age. She is fortunate to have the full support of her family and she knows it.

I am just glad I don’t live in Gilead, aka Jesusland

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 08:59PM

I am going to break this down into 2 different parts-

"I understand your concern, but in reality, no group is more at risk for suicide than Transgender youth."
Understood...which is why mental health services are so important and should be prioritized over gender-affirmation care


"Anyway to reduce that tragic stat is ok with me."
Allowing G-A care as a way to say we 'did something for the youth'...is not the right answer...and I am going easy on this statement..

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 09:21PM

nonmo_1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am going to break this down into 2 different
> parts-
>
> "I understand your concern, but in reality, no
> group is more at risk for suicide than Transgender
> youth."
> Understood...which is why mental health services
> are so important and should be prioritized over
> gender-affirmation care
>
>
> "Anyway to reduce that tragic stat is ok with
> me."
> Allowing G-A care as a way to say we 'did
> something for the youth'...is not the right
> answer...and I am going easy on this statement..

I edited my comment to be more specific.

#1. I’m not a fan of dead kids.
#2. Trans Youth have a much higher suicide rate than any other group of people.
#3. Will denying Tkids GA care result in more or less trans deaths?

I think it will result in more deaths, but it’s one hell of a lousy bet.

I don’t known that for a fact. What if legalize Tkids transitioning and they’re still heavily suicidal adult T’s?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dogbloggernli ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 09:41PM

gender affirming care is not just doing something to do something. It's doing something with a well established track record of improved condition. You know, evidence, that thing medicine is suppose to be based on. Evidence based care, evidence based medicine, evidence based health.

Not whim based practice or agenda based medicine.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 09:22PM

But if they transition and change their minds, won't they still want to kill themselves?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dogbloggernli ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 09:35PM

There are as many reasons people transition as people who transition. Trans isn't just one thing, one specific condition with one specific treatment.

What being trans means varies from person to person. Ask them what it means to them.

What transitioning is is different for different trans people. Some are happy to dress and conform at that level. if they're socially accepted, that works for them.

Others need more, puberty blockers, hormone therapy. This doesn't necessarily entail bottom /top surgery, but that is only in adulthood as the body isn't done growing until then anyway.

And yes some people do detransition. But ask why, not just that they detransitioned. Top reasons are they couldn't afford the care/therapy. They couldn't get a job, They couldn't travel because their look doesn't match their identity documents, They social acceptance wasn't there and they couldn't take the pressure. The number who detransition because the other gender also doesn't match who they are is not large.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/03/23/transgender-adults-transitioning-poll/

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: April 13, 2023 08:43AM

I see how this aspect is being played down. Still...mental health resources and DECISION making be the youth involved WHEN they are an adult is...imo...my Libertarian-minded opinion, the b.e.s.t. option for people w/their bodies and their minds...Not a parent or a doctor who wants to 'hurry up and fix it...and make it better'.

I can see the rabbit-hole this discussion can go down...Before I get all 'MAGA-ized', I fully support abortion and never voted for Orange Jesus, nor ever will..

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 13, 2023 08:49AM

I think the Johns Hopkins approach where they start hormones at age 16 with parent permission, and surgery only at 18+, is reasonable. Hormone treatments can always be reversed. I like to think that medical professionals are focused on providing the most optimal care that preserves physical and mental health to the greatest extent possible. No one is ever going to get it perfect, but you go with the best chance for an optimal outcome.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dogbloggernli ( )
Date: April 13, 2023 10:47AM

I don't know where you're getting your information but there's nothing about it that's fast or intended to be fast. It plays out over many years. And it is an ongoing lifetime of medical intervention. Don't pretend that it's fast. There is no one and done solution.

Indeed the whole point of puberty blockers is to buy time. Time for the kid to start figuring things out without the pressures of the hormones confusing them. The treatment is also largely off label. You're using these medications for reasons that they were not developed for even though you're using them for the desired effects. The puberty blockers are mostly about precocious puberty. As such there is no rush to combine therapies. You start with one thing and see how that goes for a while. And you add another thing and see how they play together and how the patient reacts, how they're socializing.

This gives the patient time to figure out how far the transition needs to go, how deep the therapies need to run and what will satisfy their body dysphoria.

And summer the effects of hormone therapies are not exactly reversible. In the discussion with my daughter and the doctor on that topic it was talked about how it was not reversible. Going off estrogen is not going to make her breasts shrink away or areolas shrink or some of the other changes. The same for female to male, some of these changes are not trivial or chemically reversible. Those changes require cosmetic surgery that is not trivial nor cheap.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 13, 2023 11:18AM

Good to know. About the puberty blockers -- it used to be that girls didn't go through puberty until their mid-teens, anyway. It's gotten a lot younger over the years, and I'm not convinced that's a good thing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dogbloggernli ( )
Date: April 13, 2023 11:02AM

As to the decision making argument, permanent medical decisions are made with youth all the time.

Asthma, cleft palate, braces, diabetes, precocious puberty, cancer...

Any developmental disorder would receive a similar intervention that trans kids receive. It happens then because that's when the development is occurring that requires the intervention. You can't wait because it's life-threatening, because it's completely life altering. Those are the reasons that the intervention is actually necessary.

People argue about the sterilization. Sterilization may or may not occur depending on the kinds of treatments the trans person opts for. One of our discussions with the doctor was about collecting sperm and freezing away for future use, same as you would do with an adolescent kid being treated for cancer where the treatment can have sterilization effects. Similarly eggs can be collected and stored.

Or if you don't have those organs altered you can go off hormone therapy for a time to generate viable sperm.

There's no shortage of off ramps in the trans experience to match what their needs actually are. It's not the blanket all the same approach that is portrayed in the polarized media.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dogbloggernli ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 08:27PM

Gender affirming care IS mental health care. It's what stopped my trans daughter from cutting and suicide attempts. Feeling your body is alien is as much a medical thing as mental. The chemistry has to be corrected. The mind body interrelationship in this situation is not separable as you describe.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 08:31PM

Thank you for writing this. I hesitated to comment earlier because I don't know enough about the topic.

Your experience makes sense and is of great value to me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 10:23PM

Agree. My girlfriend is still trying to figure out the logistics of getting to a surgeon and she's in her late twenties. Nobody performs bottom surgeries on minors anyways, so what would be wrong with increasing the odds a trans youth would grow up to find someone who loves them?

And I do think love can have positive side effects on mental health; my girlfriend improved mine.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 10:28PM

> And I do think love can have positive side effects
> on mental health; my girlfriend improved mine.

I think love almost always does that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 09:38PM

I can't imagine that I would have an abortion, but it's not my place to decide for everyone else.

I hope no minor would get gender affirming surgery, but it's not my place to decide for everyone else.

The bigger issue here is the wrong people are deciding who should do what with their bodies. The right thing to do IMO is fund health care so people get the best evaluations and medical care for their situation. There are exceptions, situations, and reasons that should evaluated by people who actually know stuff.

Idaho legislators wouldn't know a clitoris from a cuspid. They can't separate their religion, bias and lack of expertise from anything they do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 09:41PM

> Idaho legislators wouldn't know a clitoris from a
> cuspid.

What about a bicuspid? Or should that be bi-cuspid?

Don't ask.

Anyway, I agree with your post.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: April 13, 2023 08:47AM

"I hope no minor would get gender affirming surgery, but it's not my place to decide for everyone else."

I understand your sentiment...but it is 'your place' to help and guide youth to adulthood. 'Your Place' meaning as a society, not you personally.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: April 13, 2023 11:41AM

I meant my place is to allow their choice and support resources for them to access.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: April 12, 2023 10:35PM

I still say that most of them are doing this for political purposes and probably don't care one way or the other.


The fundies who rant and say they are "protecting" kids know full well they aren't, and just don't want to live in a world where they have to wonder "who is and who isn't" -- like people back in the 1950s and 1960s staring at your nose or some other feature to see if you were Jewish, black or some other "undesirable."


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/texas-ag-ken-paxton-once-joined-this-family-of-a-trans-kid-for-dinner-they-now-feel-under-attack


On a September evening in 2016, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton and his wife, Angela, arrived at Amber Briggle’s door in Dallas, homemade dessert in hand. The couple had driven from the next county over for dinner.

Briggle was nervous. It’s hard to hate up close, she told herself. But earlier that year, a federal judge had sided with the state’s request under Paxton’s leadership to block a federal mandate allowing transgender students like Briggle’s son to use the bathroom that matched their gender.

A local reporter had sought out Briggle for her response to the ruling. Before leaving, the reporter asked Briggle if she had any questions for Paxton. She had just one: Would the “Paxtons come to dinner and meet her transgender 8-year-old,” she asked. To her surprise, they accepted.
“He sits at the table, breaks bread with my children, with my family, in my loving, nonviolent, drug-free, safe and stable home, and then says that families like mine should not exist.”

“He literally went into a bathroom with my transgender son so they could wash their hands before dinner,” Briggle recalled. “He turns around and looks and says, ‘This is nice. It’s been a while since I had kids this age.’”

As Paxton was leaving, Briggle asked him to do more to support trans kids, she said. The attorney general shrugged. He didn’t make the laws, he told her. It wasn’t up to him.

Briggle has been reliving this dinner over and over in recent days. On Feb. 18, Paxton, who this year faces a tough reelection, issued a legal interpretation that labels certain types of gender-affirming care for trans kids child abuse. He was backed up by Republican Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday. It’s unclear what these moves mean, and experts on trans issues say that no laws in Texas or other states have characterized such medical care as abuse. While it seems unlikely that transgender children will be removed from their parents, parents do worry the move sends a clear message that trans kids are unwelcome in Texas.


“He sits at the table, breaks bread with my children, with my family, in my loving, nonviolent, drug-free, safe and stable home, and then says that families like mine should not exist,” Briggle said. “It’s shameful.”



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2023 10:42PM by anybody.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: nation ( )
Date: April 13, 2023 11:35AM

You think it rational to remove a child's body parts or stunt development with drugs because they feel like they are a different sex?

Make me understand.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dogbloggernli ( )
Date: April 13, 2023 11:45AM

Your characterization is not factual. Do some more research.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: April 13, 2023 12:11PM

This isn't like a child saying they are a tree, dog, or a cat.


This is a real thing, and they tell their parents at an early age, and it doesn't just "go away."

The only difference between now and previous generations is that the parents listen to their children, and get assistance from modern medicine and psychology.

Don't take my word for it. Listen to the kids.



Fourth-grade trans activist testifies before Texas lawmakers | GMA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl3yJyzyp3w


Transgender kids are just kids after all | Amber Briggle | TEDxTWU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_gCASi58Ps


Stories of Pride: Jamie and Rebekah Bruesehoff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40gCjXBdevY

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 ********   *******   **     **   *******   **     ** 
    **     **     **  ***   ***  **     **   **   **  
    **     **     **  **** ****  **     **    ** **   
    **      ********  ** *** **   ********     ***    
    **            **  **     **         **    ** **   
    **     **     **  **     **  **     **   **   **  
    **      *******   **     **   *******   **     **