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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 05:33PM

BYU creates a new anonymous hotline to report code breakers so students will not feel any guilt or worries about retaliation.

I experienced this some 30 years ago in my mission. Even if you somehow knew that some missionary was breaking ANY rules of the mission, you were supposed to tattle on them. I ran afoul with Elder Green who was not even my companion. He was some kid fresh out of the MTC who confessed within my earshot to sleeping in. He confessed to my mission president and then claimed that everyone in the zone knew about it. Only my name came up and I was called in to explain why I was setting a poor example by not snitching.

I became demoted to jr companion (I had a few months to go) because I was a terribly disobedient missionary.

Back to BYU and their honor code, a freshman.

-BYU freshman Porter from Reno, Nevada said the hotline is a great option for students who want to keep their integrity without compromising their relationship with someone else.

“I think it’s a good option to be able to have a place to report stuff anonymously, so you don’t feel like you’re betraying the person you’re reporting and can feel honest without compromising yourself,” Porter said.

I suppose the church is doubling down on grooming future church leaders. They will have no conscience reporting all the "trouble-makers" of the ward while serving in Relief Society and Elders Quorum presidencies.

https://universe.byu.edu/2023/11/07/the-integrity-and-compliance-office-offers-a-safe-way-for-students-to-report-noncompliance/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2023 05:34PM by messygoop.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 05:42PM

Hopefully students will save the hotline for more serious issues, but at BYU, you never know.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 06:25PM

Big Brother lives.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: November 15, 2023 08:58PM

Ya beat me to it. Dealing with the head of the Ricks gestalt still fresh in my memory 57 years later.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 06:38PM

There are a couple of elements in this story that bother me.


---------------
> BYU creates a new anonymous hotline to report code
> breakers so students will not feel any guilt or
> worries about retaliation.

Yes, the hotline reduces the danger of retaliation. But it will not obviate the guilt one appropriately feels for ratting out a friend. The Lord's University is trying to overrule any innate sense of fidelity to individual humans. which is repugnant.


-------------
> . . . the
> hotline is a great option for students who want to
> keep their integrity without compromising their
> relationship with someone else.

There it is again: betraying friends is necessary to your integrity, and loyalty to others just gets in the way.

And seriously, has anyone ever betrayed a friend without "compromising their relationship?" Can you stab a friend in the back and then feel comfortable in her presence?


--------------
> “I think it’s a good option to be able to have
> a place to report stuff anonymously, so you
> don’t feel like you’re betraying the person
> you’re reporting and can feel honest without
> compromising yourself,” Porter said.

What a convoluted attempt to justify personal betrayal. Disgusting.

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 12:38AM

Great points!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 01:06AM

Thank you, Elder Stinky.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 23, 2023 02:23PM

At BYU, you're 'helping an errant person', regardless of any friendship bc you're 'helping them' to compliance with gghwads will, obedience and honoring the promises they made in order to be admitted!!

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 06:43PM

" . . .a great option for students who want to keep their integrity without compromising their relationship with someone else."

Uh, this is not integrity in any sense at all. This is a classic example of Double Cross. Pretending to be someone's friend while secretly turning them in is a betrayal. Gutless is what it is.

Phony is the name of the game in Mormonism.

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: November 16, 2023 05:50AM

+1

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 06:50PM

I haven't read the story.

How is it anonymous?  I get that you don't have to leave your name and your class schedule, but based on what little I know about today's society, there aren't that many payphones on or near the campus.


And what's to stop me from getting the hotline number and having a nefarious friend call in a bunch of bogus shizz from her burner phone, in Little Rock, Arkansas?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 07:00PM

That's silly! You know I can't go near Little Rock due to the outstanding warrants.

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Posted by: Silence is Golden ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 07:07PM

Reminds me of when I was around 8, when you ran to Mom every 10 seconds to tattle on your sibling(s). Then you made faces at each other and stuck out your tongue to show your displeasure about being ratted out.

Such childishness. Save for egregious behavior, peoples lives and actions are theirs to manage. An institution that feels a need to behave like children when it comes to discipline, needs to rethink its definition of higher education. And those who feel a need to tattle should focus on the term "mind your own business".

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 07:18PM

I can see it now...  A freshman being dragged by two burly uniformed Custodians of Virtue towards the border of the campus, sobbing, "I swear, it was just hot chocolate!!!"

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Posted by: Silence is Golden ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 07:40PM

Better yet

The three Nephites, two dragging while the third is swinging his flaming sword of Gods wrath, since the Hot Chocolate had Coffee Creamer in it!

A sure fire way to burn in Hell whilst defiling the pure and wholesome campus of BY...(barf).

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 09:33PM

of course, no UBY student would FALSELY turn in an innocent enemy or prank someone...


yeah right.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2023 09:34PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 09:53PM

My first thoughts about this abuse of authority.

My guess it'll be dumped by mid 2024.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 13, 2023 10:06PM

If this happened in a real court, the accused would have a right to face their accuser/witnesses...

However, YBU is immune from the (inspired) U.S. Constitution

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 03:42PM

If only that were the only thing they were immune from.

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 12:58AM

Tell the Salt Lake Tribune. Or the New York Times.

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 11:12AM

When our daughter lived on campus at BYU, she got in trouble for wearing a two-piece swim suit at the pool.

Her tattlers were anonymous. They didn't need a hotline; they just high-tailed it and went in person to the echelons.

The echelons went to the pool and told her to change into a one piece swim suit or she would have to leave and would be written up.

Pretty crazy if you ask me.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 02:38PM

a) there is a huge difference in 'two-piece' swimsuits (for females...)

1. there is the very modest 50's type that covers almost everything interesting to others (men)

2. there is the 'see most everything' type, the reason that wearers (men & women) get a 'bikini wax' or trim; these folks seem to subscribe to the idea/theory that pubic hairs are somehow undesirable to show.

- I make no assumptions or guesses as to VQ's daughter's motives or choices.


Both women & men have wardrobe choices - alternatives, some of each choose to appear/dress provocatively. That's a choice for whatever reason.


the prevailing thought in ChurchCo 'authorities' seems to be that men are actually 'the weaker vessel' and are challenged not to objectify women, and lose 'self'-control. This is CRAP even if occasionally accurate.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 12:33PM

It's a variation of "swatting".

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 12:37PM

The name for the hotline sounds better in the original German

Staatssicherheit (Stasi)

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 02:32PM

You beat me to it.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 07:52PM

Sounds like a dreadful environment akin to East Germany. Makes me glad to be a nevermo.

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Posted by: BoydKKK ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 11:05PM

Wow, Porter the Honest Rat.
Would have been right at home in Pre-WWII Germany turning in his jewish neighbors.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 14, 2023 11:32PM

That is precisely the point.

Mormonism teaches people to repress their own consciences and superimpose their leaders' preferences. If a person hones those principles finely, s/he becomes the perfect cog in a totalitarian machine.

Just today I told one of my children that a Mormon we know would make a perfect Nazi not because she is evil but because she is compliant.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 15, 2023 01:04AM

Attest: Helmut Hubner

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: November 15, 2023 01:40AM

The fact that it's anonymous will not do anything to protect anyone grassing out another person. The snitch will be found out.

When I was at BYU, i had a real unorthodox roommate who had been having sex with his girlfriend. I know because he told me. The girl's roommates went to the bishop and told him they thought she might be having sex. So the bishop called me in and told me to watch my roommate and report back. I didn't say I wouldn't, but I didn't. It seemed wrong.

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Posted by: BoydKKK ( )
Date: November 15, 2023 08:03PM

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact that it's anonymous will not do anything
> to protect anyone grassing out another person. The
> snitch will be found out.
>
> When I was at BYU, i had a real unorthodox
> roommate who had been having sex with his
> girlfriend. I know because he told me. The girl's
> roommates went to the bishop and told him they
> thought she might be having sex. So the bishop
> called me in and told me to watch my roommate and
> report back. I didn't say I wouldn't, but I
> didn't. It seemed wrong.

"watch the roomate"?
So Bishop, If I see them having sex does that mean I am watching porn?

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 15, 2023 08:06PM

Don't the totalitarian 'Big Brother' tendencies of ChurchCo mimic some of our recent politicians?

I'm rather certain of it when considering internet spying & tattle-tell conduct.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: November 16, 2023 06:30AM

Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime. Thanks for the hotline, fellas.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: November 16, 2023 09:47PM

when I was such a prude. I was going through the gay boyfriend issues as it was and so I wasn't in my right mind.

But she worked where I worked, grew up by me, although she was younger. She ended up having an affair with one of the guys at work (there were thousands there) and she told me about it. She asked me how I had kept myself from ending up in an affair with a married guy who had asked me--but he was separated at the time he asked me--and I said I jsut didn't want to get in such a big mess--not like I wasn't and didn't.

So I told the bishop. I also did typing for the bishop so I talked to him a lot more than most ward members. He called her in and she was disfellowshipped. her brother got wind of it and moved her home the next day. She has about 8 brothers.

But she is a good little mormon mommy now and her husband is in high callings and I'm the naughty girl.

Thing is is he had told his wife he had to work the day she went into the hospital to deliver their third baby and he was actually spending the day with my roommate. They did end up divorced, but he wasn't mormon so my roommate couldn't marry him now could she?

I couldn't stomach BYU even when I was extreme TBM. Both my sisters went to school down there. And I was the family perfect mormon (they'd all tell you that).

The bishop told me to keep track of what my future husband was doing and to report back to him--like keeping track of his masturbation as if we could get him to quit masturbating, we could change him to straight. I never did it. I told the future husband they had assigned me to do this, but I never kept track of anything nor did I report back to the bishop about him even after we were married. He wanted to and I told him NEVER AGAIN.

As my dad said, they just gossiped about everyone in bishopric meeting when he was a clerk. He was disgusted by them.

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Posted by: Silence is Golden ( )
Date: November 17, 2023 12:29PM

Yes your dad was correct, they do discuss the ward members in bishopric meetings. But the terminology they use causes the justification.

They use the term "we are concerned".

I am sure that term in on steroids at BYU.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: November 17, 2023 09:58PM

and we probably are now, too, although we resigned and we aren't exactly a couple. I asked my daughter if we confuse them (she goes here when she is not in Alaska) and she laughed and said yes.

The long time previous bishop stated in bishopric meeting that I was out walking at night to all in the meeting. The clerk told his wife and she said--she walks at night so you guys won't talk about her. She is the only person who had my unlisted phone number.

There has been plenty for them to talk about when it comes to us and I don't care anymore. In fact, I do things to make a point that I'm still a heathen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2023 09:59PM by cl2.

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Posted by: unconventionalideas ( )
Date: November 17, 2023 05:10AM

Sounds like former East Germany

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Posted by: Notmonotloggedin ( )
Date: November 17, 2023 01:23PM

People got reported all the time, guys for having their hair too long, girls for wearing jeans. I wore jeans anyway and once got turned away from the testing center for it.

I once had a worker refuse to serve me food in the Canon Center on a Sunday because I was wearing pants. (I don't even think that was a legitimate rule).

Fun times.

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Posted by: Annon for this one ( )
Date: November 17, 2023 03:00PM

The other problem here, is that once you've been "Ratted Out" by some unknown person, you end up being paranoid and suspecting nearly everyone. It can ruin all sorts of relationships...and the Honor Code office has the power to damage and redirect the rest of your life !

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 23, 2023 02:34PM

Just wait until monthly or weekly quotas of recruiting informers to denounce people...

#################

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

On 2 July 1937, in a top secret order to regional Party and NKVD chiefs Stalin instructed them to produce the estimated number of "kulaks" and "criminals" in their districts. These individuals were to be arrested and executed, or sent to the gulag camps. The party chiefs complied and produced these lists within days, with figures which roughly corresponded to the individuals who were already under secret police surveillance.[33]

On 30 July 1937, the NKVD Order No. 00447 was issued, directed against "ex-kulaks" and other "anti-Soviet elements" (such as former officials of the Tsarist regime, former members of political parties other than the communist party, etc.). They were to be executed or sent to Gulag prison camps extrajudicially, under the decisions of NKVD troikas.

The following categories appear to have been on index-cards, catalogues of suspects assembled over the years by the NKVD and were systematically tracked down: "ex-kulaks" previously deported to "special settlements" in inhospitable parts of the country (Siberia, the Urals, Kazakhstan, and the Far North), former tsarist civil servants, former officers of the White Army, participants in peasant rebellions, members of the clergy, persons deprived of voting rights, former members of non-Bolshevik parties, ordinary criminals, like thieves, known to the police and various other "socially harmful elements".[69]

However, a large number of people were arrested at random in sweeps, on the basis of denunciations or because they were related to, were friends with or knew people already arrested. Engineers, peasants, railwaymen, and other types of workers were arrested during the "Kulak Operation" based on the fact that they worked for or near important strategic sites and factories where work accidents had occurred due to "frantic rhythms and plans". During this period the NKVD reopened these cases and relabeled them as "sabotage" or "wrecking."[70]

The Orthodox clergy, including active parishioners, was nearly annihilated: 85% of the 35,000 members of the clergy were arrested. Particularly vulnerable to repression were also the so-called "special settlers" (spetzpereselentsy) who were under permanent police surveillance and constituted a huge pool of potential "enemies" to draw on. At least 100,000 of them were arrested in the course of the Great Terror.[71]

Common criminals such as thieves, "violators of the passport regime", etc. were also dealt with in a summary way. In Moscow, for example, nearly one third of the 20,765 persons executed on the Butovo firing range were charged with a non-political criminal offence.[71]

To carry out the mass arrests, the 25,000 officers of the State Security personnel of NKVD were complemented with units of ordinary police, and Komsomol (Young Communist League) and civilian Communist Party members. Seeking to fulfill the quotas, the police rounded up people in markets and train stations, with the purpose of arresting "social outcasts".[33] Local units of the NKVD, in order to meet their "casework minimums" and force confessions out of arrestees worked long uninterrupted shifts during which they interrogated, tortured and beat the prisoners. In many cases those arrested were forced to sign blank pages which were later filled in with a fabricated confession by the interrogators.[33]

After the interrogations the files were submitted to NKVD troikas, which pronounced the verdicts in the absence of the accused. During a half-day-long session a troika went through several hundred cases, delivering either a death sentence or a sentence to the Gulag labor camps. Death sentences were immediately enforceable. The executions were carried out at night, either in prisons or in secluded areas run by the NKVD and located as a rule on the outskirts of major cities.[69]

The "Kulak Operation" was the largest single campaign of repression in 1937–38, with 669,929 people arrested and 376,202 executed, more than half the total of known executions.[72]

#################

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 23, 2023 02:38PM

"You, too, can be a Holy McGhost!  Just rat out friends; it's what ghawd wants you to do!"

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Posted by: squirrley ( )
Date: November 23, 2023 04:13PM

Hey, my neighbor doesn't wear socks. Wearing socks was a rule when I went to BYU - eons ago.

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