I was just thinking yesterday that it's been forever since JWs (my former pals) knocked on my door. The pandemic obviously curtailed all such activity for a good long while and maybe now it's hard to get back to it (because who really likes that particular religious activity which with JWs is basically mandatory for all members). Eons ago when they used to randomly call regularly, in the days when they wouldn't take no for an answer, I would interrupt their spiel by saying "I'm disfellowshipped". I wasn't, not officially for cause, but they consider you disfellowshipped in effect if you choose to leave, as I did (but hey, we're not a cult). It was an effective tool for me though as they would immediately scuttle away when they heard the D word. Fastest way I had found to end an unwanted conversation, although not true so of course that troubled my conscience a wee bit, for a while anyway. Regular door-knocking JWs aren't allowed to speak to wicked ex-members. That calls for only the men in authority in their congregation to pay a visit. So I told that little white lie and it stopped them cold. And I was apparently so insignificant to them that no officious head guys ever did seek me out and try to get me to repent and return. I didn't mind!

Fortunately, at some point the leaders told members to take no for an answer which made door-knocking interactions brief and civil. No more arguing about how you *should* be interested. No more lying about being disfellowshipped which usually evoked expressions of horror on their faces.

So today, rapid knock-knock-knock on my door and it's a JW couple. Spooky! Like I had a premonition or conjured them up. The woman stood back, as JW women mostly do, while the man handed me a leaflet and quickly and briefly, with a smile, told me that there's a special memorial on Sunday to observe the Last Supper. It's the JW version of communion that they only do once a year. With JWs, only a few select males in the world actually consume the bread and wine in their annual memorial/Last Supper services but still the entire congregation goes through the ritual.

They believe that after Armageddon (when JWs will be the only survivors) most will live forever in a restored paradise on earth while only those select guys have already or will then ascend to heaven. It's only those special men who can partake of the emblems during this annual service, making for an interesting time in most congregations when members pass the plate of bread (that must be unleavened) around amongst themselves, along with the glass of wine, but nobody eats or drinks! A strange ritual to outsiders but meaningful to JWs.

The man this morning issued a brief invitation to me while deftly handing me a small brief pamphlet titled 'Memorial of Jesus' Death'. Nice drawing on the front of a young white guy with curly dark hair, brown eyes, a full beard, white garment/blue sash.

They didn't hang about, trying to drag me into a conversation, just the very brief invite, leave the pamphlet, turn and go. The woman hadn't said a word but just stood back, smiling. The man said "Hope to see you there. Thanks for being nice."

Thanks for being nice? Sad. Those poor people, living a cramped life under the thumb of "the organization". And bothering people, sometimes receiving negative reactions, understandably. There's so much more out there in this world but they don't partake.

It's a bit woo-woo for me that they were in my brain yesterday and then they show up at my door today. I wasn't consciously thinking about it being Easter time, which is when they observe the Resurrection, just the one time per year, not each day, week or month like regular churches. I didn't even know there was a congregation quite close to me. If they have a regular Kingdom Hall (as they call the local church buildings where they meet) nearby I haven't seen it.

I hope they run into other "nice" people today or else they'll remember me and come back. If so, then I'll have to pull out the 'disfellowshipped' card again. Hope not. Don't want to run the risk of mortal peril for lying. Too, I'm beyond the point where I have any desire to talk about religion with people who knock on my door. I guess it's payback time for when I did it to other people, albeit reluctantly as I was so shy and couldn't stand interrupting people out of the blue to yak at them about a religion in which they had zero interest, but it's basically mandatory with JWs that everybody preach. I just didn't fit in with them. For which I am grateful. Amen.

And they interrupted me working.

And then I interrupted myself to write a post on RfM.

So yeah. Unwanted interruptions. Inconvenient.

Mutual!

Thanks, SM. Always lovely to hear from over the ocean.

Oh to be in Paris now that spring has sprung!

(Do I say that every year?!)

I don't know whether you say it every year, Nightingale, but every year it's true ;-)

Except that the weather is set to break tomorrow, just in time for the weekend :-/

Messed up. Cancelled. Sorry.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2024 02:54PM by Nightingale.

Lucky you!

I guess the pandemic is over. They're BACK!
I've had maybe 3 letters in the mail the past two years. "Dear neighbor" JW stuff. I've had a pamphlet on my door once.

I've learned to be nice to stray animals but I'm not quite there yet with JWs and other assorted soliciting types.

Enjoy your interruption. Get a snack!

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess the pandemic is over. They're BACK!

LOL, dagny.

> I've had maybe 3 letters in the mail the past two
> years. "Dear neighbor" JW stuff. I've had a
> pamphlet on my door once.

Maybe I wouldn't have minded so much if we just left pamphlets (although it's basically littering) but I found it excruciating when a householder would want us to get lost but my dyed-in-the-wool JW tracting partner would stubbornly keep yakking at them. I would back away and get the steely stare from the JW because they just would never take no for an answer. I didn't decide to leave the JWs because I hated the tracting obligation but it was sure a welcome side effect. No more bugging people in their homes? I'm in for that.


> Enjoy your interruption. Get a snack!

Great idea. Will do. Maybe it's God telling me to take a break. :)

You'd think I'd realize who it is when I see it. She has sent me quite a few--every few months it seems. The "husband" brought one in one day and said Pauline? I had a friend named Pauline years ago when I worked at Thiokol. He knew her as I still ran around with her and "Jolene."

They always catch me off guard with those letters. I don't read them.

They never make it past the front gate. Their pamphlets are left on my fence.

I used to see them in front of locally owned convenience stores.

Well, they had their chance and we are not giving you back :)

messygoop: Thank goodness they never expected me to hang out around convenience stores. I would have melted into the pavement. Embarrassing enough showing up at people's doors, unwanted at best.

Sus: LOL. Thanks. I'll stick with you all any day. More fun. Fewer expectations. :)

Eric: It would be more pleasant hanging about in a park than bothering people at their own door. But I'm guessing people in parks aren't any more pleased to be interrupted during their leisure time by unwanted solicitations. Of any sort.

Summer: In my neighbourhood nobody is really a stranger so true enough we're likely not cautious enough with checking who's outside when the doorbell rings. Ding ding and I open. I might have a think about that now that you've mentioned it. Today I didn't expect it to be JWs so didn't know I wasn't interested until I opened the door and he handed me the pamphlet which I instinctively grabbed before he started his spiel. At least he was brief and pleasant.

I didn't do anything at all especially kind unless maybe you count not yelling at them?

It just struck me, looking at the pamphlet I threw on my desk and haven't yet discarded that the title is 'Memorial of Jesus' Death'. Inside it says "Once each year, Jehovah's Witnesses commemorate the death of Jesus...".

Christians seem to make it more positive as in "Do this in remembrance of me" which is more about the "what now" than the JW emphasis which is more on the death. It just sounds a bit negative to me - memorial of his death - but you know what they said at the tomb: "He's alive!"

So yeah, don't mind me, I'm just analyzing the semantics.

And what am I grateful for this Easter? Among other things, so grateful that I'm not wandering around handing out pamphlets that nobody wants. This little interlude brought to mind some of the JWs I called friend back in the day. I wonder what they're all doing now. Because, of course, they didn't stay in touch with me, apparently a dangerous person to know now that I've "fallen away" as they call it when you leave the faith. I've been sorry to lose touch with some of the people I did care about but definitely not sorry that I got out and carried on with life, becoming a nurse (an ambition which was initially derailed because JWs actively discourage higher education and, silly me, I listened to them - for a while) and most important of all, keeping in touch with family, which they also actively discouraged me from doing.

I can't even describe the loss that would have been. What a truly dark divisive message they promote: isolation from non-JW family and friends, spurning of higher education, preach at everybody you encounter, focus on the end of the world and don't get involved in anything except our organization because The.End.of.the.World.

Ack.

So I didn't learn well enough the first time, as I recounted here often before (sorry if too often). I double-dipped into what I call JW-Lite - the Mormons! After that unhappy experience, detailed here ad infinitum through the years, I'm not for joining! Twice is twice too many, thankyouverymuch.

I'm definitely celebrating Easter by finding a big huge chocolate bunny and consuming it with great enjoyment and zero guilt about all the 'shoulds' and 'should nots' people are forever wanting to hand out.

Yum.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2024 07:53PM by Nightingale.

I was just in St Petersburg Fl. The city cracked down on the JWs setting up their kiosks on public sidewalks. They were all over the place during major events such as the St Pete Grand Prix. This year they were non-existent. The only places they can set up are in public parks. They did not annoy me. I just felt sorry for them wasting their lives with that organization. I had no interest in speaking with them in the past when they were omnipresent. Now thankfully, they are gone.

Nighingale! Stop opening your door to strangers. You can say "I'm not interested, please leave" through a closed and locked door.

But having said that, you were kind to them. They seemed to appreciate that.

A nearby neighbor has a sign by his front sidewalk:

WE HAVE NO MONEY
WE KNOW WHO WE'RE VOTING FOR
WE'VE FOUND JESUS
So please don't ring our doorbell


Probably works on everyone but entitled Mormons

The JWs maybe persistent, but they mostly lack the drive and stamina of young Mormon Missionaries who need to please Mission Presidents, who in turn want to become General Authorities, and need baptisms and new tithing payers to get noticed.

I'm fairly sure this doesn't happen anymore but when I was a missionary we were charged with knocking on every door until we contacted whoever lived there. When I was a greenie my senior companion would make us sneak into the bomb shelters in large apartment buildings that were connected to several other high rise apartment buildings in order to circumvent security. I learned to ring buzzers at the outside security doors and say "Plumber" in the country's language but with a Turkish accent, because most of the people who dealt with toilet//sewer issues in the buildings were guest workers.

In smaller towns I knocked on every single door in the town until we had contacted everyone. A few years ago my wife and I visited the country and we took in some tourist sites I had wanted to see when I was there but was not allowed to. She was amazed at how well I knew the streets, and that I could still remember some of the people we talked with in the houses in the random streets where we parked.

That's a cool report.

If JWs commemorate the death of Jesus at easter, do they put out the easter baskets on Friday? Do they fill them with brown cellophane grass and dead leaves?

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If JWs commemorate the death of Jesus at easter,
> do they put out the easter baskets on Friday? Do
> they fill them with brown cellophane grass and
> dead leaves?

JWs don't celebrate Easter!

That makes them non-Christian in the eyes of Christians. In the eyes of JWs, it's the Christians who aren't Christian.

They believe that the Easter holiday celebration is not based on the Bible. Here's their explanation for that:

"Jesus commanded that we commemorate his death, not his resurrection. We observe this Memorial each year on the anniversary of his death according to the Bible’s lunar calendar.— Luke 22:19, 20.

"We believe that the origins of Easter customs, which come from ancient fertility rites, make Easter unacceptable to God. God requires that we give him “exclusive devotion,” and he is offended by worship that includes practices that he does not approve of."

-----

Basically, they teach that Easter is pagan. Pagan is bad. Very bad. Therefore, no Easter eggs or pretty baskets for JWs.

Most members (even TBM's) resented being pressured to convert the few close friends who were not members of the church. That being said, Mormons felt the reason the church had an active missionary program was so members could focus on other duties of the church~ don't bother us.

My mom was called as a ward missionary several times. It was her responsibility to pass around a monthly calendar in Relief Society, Primary and Young Women (the adult leaders) to solicit meals for the lady missionaries. She also had to contact a certain number of members (both active and inactive) about buying copies of the BoM, creating a personalized message and pasting a pictures of your family inside. This was part of Ezra T Benson's Love the BoM campaign.

My mom was supposed to accompany the sisters to meet both the recipients and members who were gifting the BoM. However, these sisters were a bunch of noodles. They had lots of excuses for not going out of their apartment at the appointed dates/times.

Here's a sample of some of their excuses (mind you these were around 5pm).

-One had a headache
-They ran out of towels and their hair was still damp
-Sister _____ ate chili for lunch and has a tummy ache
-The family has a dog and Sister _____ is terrified of dogs (it was a poodle)
-One was on their menstrual cycle from the previous month (this was the 20th already)
-One sister didn't like macaroni salad
-One sister was waiting to the end of the month because all her nylons had runs in them

I had to accompany my mom to do her calling as ward missionary. Most members walked over to their purses or wallets and gave us cash (to donate to the BoM fund) with the subtle hint~ Get out of our house! Others loved the BoM too much~ one family had used highlighters to color code the binding. It looked like a bad acid trip and they wanted to keep it because it was too pretty to donate.

Since JW's frequently came by as family missionaries, I always thought it was neat that they were unified in their proselytizing. Yeah, a very weird confession from a person who hated going to church, but I never saw JW's fighting, screaming or yelling as I would see in the LDS church. Maybe they were sad or humiliated. I once was at a friend's house and a classmate showed up with her family. I think she almost died from embarrassment.



Q for NG- Was there a weekly goal set for missionary work?

Were there deep discussions for members failing to do their expected work?

Did you pray before heading out with confidence that you would have success?

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since JW's frequently came by as family
> missionaries, I always thought it was neat that
> they were unified in their proselytizing. Yeah, a
> very weird confession from a person who hated
> going to church, but I never saw JW's fighting,
> screaming or yelling as I would see in the LDS
> church. Maybe they were sad or humiliated.

As I mentioned below, it's basically mandatory if you want to be considered to be "in good standing" in the congregation. So it's not so much being unified as being compelled. The unifying feature was that we certainly all had the spiel down pat in terms of what to say to intro ourselves and how to answer certain questions. Kind of an illusion of cohesion I guess, because you could ask 1344 JWs the same question and you'd get the same answer word-for-word. Or that's the goal. They train you on how to go out and about in the neighbourhood and what the "right" answer is to the usual questions, doubts or comments from people of other faiths or from atheists.


> Q for NG- Was there a weekly goal set for
> missionary work?

Yes. We were "encouraged" to go out at least once every month or more and some people did go every week. The leaders keep track of who goes, and how often, and who does not. I was so shy at the time and given the reason we were bothering people at their doorstep it made it worse for me. When someone would say "not interested" and I would turn to leave my longer-time or born-in JW partners would stare at me like I was committing a major faux-pas. What - You mean taking no for an answer isn't the courteous path? I absolutely hated it. Not having to do it any more was the best part about leaving the fold.

You also have to keep track of how many of their magazines you "place" with people. That's why we carried the shoulder bags - they are full of WatchTower magazines.


> Were there deep discussions for members failing to
> do their expected work?

Yes. You are considered to be not in good standing if you don't "publish the good news". I found it kinda hard to put "good news" and "Armageddon" into the same sentence.


> Did you pray before heading out with confidence
> that you would have success?

Yes. At least supposedly. After a great many weeks of traipsing around the neighbourhoods and finding nobody home or nobody answering or nobody interested in converting (or even taking the magazines) the confidence factor certainly lagged a bit. Some of the sermons mentioned the fact that the fewer the numbers coming into the fold the closer Armageddon was. I guess that "logic" made sense to someone somewhere. It could serve to keep people door-knocking as the focus turned to whether you are faithful enough to make it through Armageddon. You demonstrated faith by going out with the magazines.

Only after leaving could I see the circular logic of it all. (Although logic isn't really the best word in this case).

I found it all quite mindbending.

It was an adult father-son pair, nicely dressed and very polite. I was in pajamas and robe. We had a nice chat of about 10 minutes or so.

I mentioned at the outset that I had left Christian Science, which I consider a cult, and was now a born-again Baptist. No argument from them: they were quite respectful. I shared a litany of problems with CS, (special language, belief in exclusivity of truth, shunning, lack of financial disclosure, top-down ecclesiastical authority, etc.) things which I hope they'll recognize in the Watchtower. Maybe? Maybe eventually? You never know.

My tactic is to dominate these conversations. I'm rather experienced at it. I did share that I appreciated that they went as father & son, and hoped that they bond well in other life matters. I closed with something like this:

"One or both of you may leave the Watchtower, and should that happen, I hope neither of you rejects the other. It happened it my family, and it still hurts. Keep loving and associating with each other, should that happen, and don't let anybody pressure you to reject the other. Family is important."

(Wish I had thought to say, "Don't stay in an organization or church because you're afraid you'll lose your family's love.")

"Also there's a good chance that one or both of you may decide to leave the Watchtower for any number of possible reasons. If that happens, don't turn your back on God and religion in bitterness. There is a God, and He loves you, and it's important that you find a Bible-based church where that is taught and you can experience it. Don't default into atheism. I believe the Watchtower has a distorted teaching on God and Jesus and the afterlife, don't reject it as a whole package because some religions out there are corrupt."

I invited them to come back "at a more opportune time," but so for...nope. Very nice guys.

I don't see any difference between you preaching to them and them preaching to you. You have ZERO more credible evidence than they do when it comes to making claims about God and what everyone is supposed to think about God.

Born again Baptist testimonies are just as annoying as Mormon ones, IMO.

Each church/religion should post a list of all the other religions and how close each one comes to being as true as the list-posters!

Groups of churches would form based on having a common 'least favorite' competitor.

That way, everyone would dog pile on the mormons, and all of us Exmos would end up having to bail the TBMs out of Spirit Prison.

You seem to have trouble with people exchanging their religious beliefs. I could have asked them to leave. I chose to engage them. If you're annoyed by people's religious views, you ask them to leave.

I'm annoyed by (usually young and very ignorant) people on my porch who want to sell me a "sustainable" "green energy" utility plan. They claim that I will "save the environment" and "save money." (not true) Those, I ask to leave.

But don't get me started on those incessant AI-robo calls that want to sell me some Medicare Part-XYZ plan!

Just finishing my coffee this morning when there was a timid tap in the door (not sure why people always seem to knock when there is a perfectly good bell push at the door). Anyway, I opened the door to a father son pair handing out leaflets entitled Memorial of Jesus' Death. I thanked them with a smile and closed the door.
Tomorrow I am filling in as teacher for a SS class on the subject of The Lord's Supper, based on 1 Corinthians 11:17-33. Saturday is usually the day I prepare and the leaflet will help opening a discussion.

Kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just finishing my coffee this morning when there
> was a timid tap in the door (not sure why people
> always seem to knock when there is a perfectly
> good bell push at the door).

Speaking for my young JW self, I spent most of my time while out "in service", which is what they call the door-knocking thing, wishing nobody would ever be at home when we came by. I was deliriously happy when there was either a non-functioning bell or my fellow JW would knock very timidly indeed so nobody would answer. I found the whole "service" thing excruciating but it's basically mandatory. You're not considered a good member if you don't regularly go out to preach at unwilling victims. (The WT Society - headquartered back east - keeps track of tracting time via reports from each local congregation and the local leaders keep watch on how much preaching time each member reports).



> Anyway, I opened the
> door to a father son pair handing out leaflets
> entitled Memorial of Jesus' Death.

Yeah, that's the one I got.


> I thanked them with a smile and closed the door.

Eek. Don't ever say thank you! (Kinda joking).


> Tomorrow I am filling in as teacher for a SS
> class on the subject of The Lord's Supper, based
> on 1 Corinthians 11:17-33. Saturday is usually the
> day I prepare and the leaflet will help opening a
> discussion.

Sounds interesting, Kentish. (Well, if you like that kind of thing). Here's a link to a brief article (by JWs) explaining why they only observe the Last Supper once a year. It may help in your prep, depending on what you want to say. As usual for me, it's frustrating to see how there are as many different interpretations of seemingly simple words as there are stars in a bright night sky. OTOH it's also interesting. An eternal dilemma if you like.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/lords-supper/

Thanks Nightingale. I did check it out before you sent your note. The intro will only be in the sense of how communion has different variations rather than any specific look at JWs.

Isn't this the celebrated week that God maybe [Easter Week) promised to provide a way where there is no way?

Truly, we are all dead men (and women) walking, with a brand new chance at eternal living which can even start today.
Only, just by believing.

I think they've been here at the farm once in the 40 years I/we have lived in this home. My wife answered the door and was civil to them. I have no time for proselytizing.

To be clear, by 'weirdness' I meant weird that I was just thinking about them and they showed up. I don't think JWs are particularly weird as these things go. Likely many would disagree with me.

I was strolling around the neighbourhood today enjoying the spring sunshine and the masses of daffodils in planters on every street waving in the cool breeze. I nodded and said hello to a lady in passing. As you do. (?) She seemed like a very nice woman but I regretted engaging with her as she stopped to chat and ended up telling me all about her recent conversion to Christianity from Islam.


It took me 30 minutes to finally get to the good-bye/take care part of the conversation. I know I could have stopped the flow sooner but I just let her talk – I don’t know why. She said she was visiting this community so I guess I wanted to be hospitable. She told me more details about the dark depths of Islam than I ever wanted to have floating around in my head. I don’t disbelieve what she said as I’ve read and heard some of it before from reputable sources.


Re her recent apparently miraculous conversion, she reminded me of some exuberant talking-in-tongues Pentecostals I used to know. She said she knew I was Christian – I don’t know how as I certainly didn’t preach or give out any personal details. I was relieved she didn’t ask to keep in touch as she said an effusive good-bye. Maybe she’ll think it’s another sign or even miracle that she ran into me today and I let her ramble on or maybe it happens to her often so it’s commonplace. I don’t bear her any ill will and I was just out for a leisurely walk so she wasn’t taking up valuable time. She wanted to hug me though. Eek. I still do basic Covid precautions – that doesn’t include hugging strangers. But we briefly hugged and then finally parted. I know – I’m hopeless.


But. Note to Self: Don’t greet strangers in the street. They may take it as an invitation to preach! I repent for all the times I did it to others. It was as little fun for me as for them but it was mandatory if you wanted to be “in good standing” as a JW so I succumbed to the pressure. The preaching expectation isn’t what triggered my leaving their fold but no more door knocking was sure a welcome side effect.


Right after I bid this lady farewell, just around the corner I passed an elderly JW couple beside their magazine stand set up on the sidewalk. They said hello and I instinctively said hi back, as you do. I realized it was the same couple who had come by my place last week to give me an invite to their Eastertime memorial and unthinkingly I blurted out “Oh, you knocked on my door the other day!” The man stepped forward as if to start chatting and I just kept walking. They looked smiley and happy which kind of goes with the territory – you have to look the part when you’re preaching “The Good News” as they call their faith. I certainly never felt happy doing the practically forced, certainly highly expected, standing on the street bit or worse, knocking on strangers’ doors. I always felt like it was bugging the h*l* out of people. Obviously it was.

So this is payback time for me I guess. :)

We don't necessarily need any details regarding whatever sin it is you need to repent of, but the reports of your suffering are a real downer!!

Repent!!

I’m sending you some bear spray.

Thanks for the thought. But 5 yr prison sentence for concealed carry of "offensive weapon" (i.e. pepper spray) in Canada. I'll just have to employ other defensive techniques. Like not speaking to strangers. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2024 10:08PM by Nightingale.

Yeah. Jail isn’t a place I’d like to go.

If you wear it on a lanyard, it’s not concealed. You can interrupt them and say, “Yes, but before you continue, would you mind helping me ready my canister of bear spray in case you get on my nerves?”

I have told my neighbor’s perpetually drunk and belligerent boyfriend that I have been looking for an excuse to mace someone for decades and that he should keep that in mind next time he acts up.

We also have a sword.

Thanks for the belly laugh, Beth. "In case you get on my nerves". Too funny.

He was out there again today! On a different corner. And I greeted him AGAIN. What is the matter with me?! I just leap in and then have to deal with the aftereffects.

Fortunately, there must be some new approach that involves not preaching.

He was still laugh-y and was yakking to another smiley guy, likely a fellow JW, although he wasn't on magazine detail. "Is this your full time job?" I blurted, realizing afterwards that yeah, it *is* full time for some JWs. He said "Yes but I also have a job".

I'm going to have to change my route. Except so far he's appeared on three different streets.

At least he isn't obnoxious.

But it sure makes me happy, all over again, that I left when I did, before spending decades in a fruitless endeavour.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2024 06:34PM by Nightingale.

LOLOLOLOL