Has anyone every sued/litigated, I'm sure that's what it takes, to have their family ie blood relatives "work" undone. It pisses me off that my nazi mormon relatives has everyone who never would have wanted this fully ordinanced into mormondom.

Here is what I found through Google.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:What_can_I_do_to%22undo%22_proxy_baptisms_and_temple_work%3F

I have not sued the LDS church I have resigned my LDS membership through the membership records department.

The legal system considers a contract to be an agreement between two or more people or organizations. Dead people cannot agree to anything, and therefore cannot be a party to a contract. Marriage is a contract, and is often referred to that way. Baptism is also a contract, though it is generally not referred to that way.

So, as far as the law is concerned, no valid contract exists, so there is nothing for them to undo, and nothing to sue over.

Actually not even Mormons believe the proxy ordinances make dead people members. The ordinance just gives them the opportunity to to accept baptism, or sealing, or whatever. Because, you know, Mormon God is completely anal about paperwork, and the spirit world doesn’t have any paper.

Just proxy resign for your relatives. That’s every bit as valid as their proxy ordinances, which is to say, completely made up.

Exactly.

I'll do it for you:

"I, a proxy human for all dead people who have had Mormon temple work hoisted upon them, do hereby undo said rituals. I seal this with the power of the token sign of the middle finger, in the name and full power of Jebus."

I raise a toast of strong drink to your dead relatives and declare them exmos.

There. Now they've had a stiff drink and left the church behind.

By proxy I slap JS upside the head and poke BY in the eyes, Three Stooges style. Do you feel better now? It's just as valid as temple ordinances.

It's a rude and disrespectful religious custom, and the TBMs just don't get that. I've written many times about how the Mormons dead-dunked my great grandmother who had no Mormon ancestors and no Mormon descendants. They should keep their hands off of other people's families. But they just don't care. It's all about them, not about respecting other people and their beliefs.

“ I've written many times about how the Mormons dead-dunked my great grandmother who had no Mormon ancestors and no Mormon descendants.”

I am sorry to hear that. Honestly I am not surprised. I am ashamed that I have done the baptism for the dead of my grandparents although my living aunts and uncle who are catholic specifically said that they didn’t want their parents to be on any Mormon records. As soon as my grandma passed away a year later I did her temple work.

My rudeness didn’t stop there I spend over 4K and hired an lds genealogy specialist and had the temple work done for over 200 people on my dad’s side. It was the year 2003 or so and I was a very active believing Mormon. My dad to this day doesn’t know that I have done the temple work on his parents and grandparents and so forth. When I resigned in 2013 I thought of the damage I had done believing that I would give them eternal life. It was such a disrespectful thing of me to do.

It's also rude for my family to decide what I WANT. Aren't you people always complaining about family pressure as far as Church goes?

Yeah, but that is a separate issue. You can “undo” your own ordinances, at least as long as you are alive. As far as the legal system is concerned, your church membership and marriage automatically end when you die, regardless of what the church claims.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2024 10:58AM by Brother Of Jerry.

As long as dead people don't complain and file a grievance than mind your own business.
However if you have it written in a will then you got a case.

My mom was raised Presbyterian and after getting baptized was a bit of a zealot. I know she submitted the names of her parents, sister and brothers for dead dunking. I also know she didn't inform any of her siblings, nieces and nephew's that she'd done that.

You guys are all great (except for one LDS troll I believe). I'll let the official part go and just let my LDS relatives know I disagree and it's disrespectful. Thanks for your responses.

You might want to research what went down when the church baptized holocaust victims and sent "congrats your ancestor who died because of their religion has now been baptized into our religion" certificates. It was a big issue for many years. Unfortunately I don't remember too many of the legal specifics (it made me so angry, I think I blocked a lot of it out) - I think they had to employ a full time researcher to make sure holocaust victims stayed out of the proxy baptism/ordinance lists, because even after widespread scorn, members kept submitting names and participating in ordinances for Jewish Holocaust victims. If I could remember the legal cases and specific recourse, I'd include it, so don't take this as a snarky "do your own research" I just don't remember the specifics,and really, really don't want to go back to it for emotional reasons, so I'm suggesting researching that as a jumping off point.


I did some other research out of intellectual property curiosity a decade or two ago, so I don't know if this is still true, and perhaps people with knowledge of the law will weigh in here. But what I learned was that a person's likeness (including their name, reputation, etc.) belongs to their estate by default for the first year after their death, and after that, the estate would need to file for an extension. I believe this is one reason why the church "insists" (but doesn't really care) that names of the dead be submitted by family, due to identity (for lack of better term) ownership issues. If you have relatives who died within the year and have been proxy dunked/submitted for dunking by people/relatives who aren't part of the estate (ianal, so I don't know who the "estate" refers to beyond the executor and next of kin), and you are part of the legal estate, you might have grounds to insist the deceased be removed from the rolls.

If it's been more than a year, there's not much you can do, and tbh, even if it was still within the time period that you could try to insist on removal, nothing is ever really removed from their records permanently. Not even people who have officially left the church. They're fair game for a proxy dunking on what would be their hundred and first birthday (assuming they aren't still living on that milestone date). That is, unless policies have changed in the past decade or so.

My best advice to you is to consider the practice as far removed from any sort of reality as other odd beliefs. Nobody knows what happens when we die (other than our loved ones missing us), and it seems unlikely that souls are sitting around in god's waiting room waiting for someone from the LDS church to dead dunk them "so they can accept or refuse the offer" (lol). Baptism for the dead is an offensive trampling on the free will and choices someone made in their lifetime, but it's only real if you accept it as a real practice. Remember and honor your deceased loved ones for the rest of your days, and just ignore the weird things that dishonor their memories. The Mormon church is a tiny, insignificant speck in the grand scheme of things (and their meaningless practices have baptized Hitler, and sealed him and Ava Braun, and, even more weirdly, have baptized Jesus into "his own church" many times under a variety of names). Don't let their practices waste your precious time and mental energy.

If you need/want a way to symbolically achieve a lasting memory for them, a sort of symbolic counter to their name on bogus church rolls, might I suggest donating to a charity in their names, purchasing a tribute stone/plaque/name slot (I can't think of the right term) for them in a place that's meaningful to you or would have been meaningful to them. This could be a park, Disney world, a stadium, a congregation you or they attended, a music hall, there's no shortage of these sorts of tribute options. At least then, their names will live on in a way they might have wanted.

They won't care if it's disrespectful. But you can turn the tables on them. Go to the "All Dead Mormons Are Now Gay" website and enter their favorite ancestor!

http://alldeadmormonsarenowgay.com/

If you then tell them what you've done, they'll whine that it's disrespectful; you can then say "Now you know what it feels like." Use the exact same arguments on them that they use: "What's the big deal? They can still refuse it. Stop complaining because I'll do it whether you like it or not."

But no, you can't stop them. They couldn't be sued to stop repeatedly baptizing Holocaust Jews; they only ended it (as far as we know) after being publicly shamed for the practice. Bad PR works wonders for a church concerned about appearances.

With the church's wealth and legal expertise at its command, you couldn't win a lawsuit anyway, even if they didn't have the First Amendment to fall back on.

Thank you for this link. My late Uncle Orville is now my late Gay Uncle Orville. I'm pretty sure he will be thrilled as will his late wife.

Some years ago I was approached by an aquaintance who, knowing my Mormon background, asked for my advice on what he saw as a potential family problem. He had been contacted by a Mormon family member who was asking for details on several other deceased family members. He was the only one with the information and the Mormon had been upfront about wanting to submit the names for temple work.

The friend was very concerned about people he knew, members of other churches, being used in Mormon ceremonies to be baptized, but he was afraid he might create a family rift by refusing.

Essentially my advice was that if he saw no purpose in the baptisms and no efficacy (he didn't) in the result why did it matter if they wasted their time in a meaningless process. Why surrender family peace for a worthless ceremnny? I hold to that view.

Over the past 20 years I have worked on my famuily tree and in the process numerous records have come up that come from LDS Church sources, which indicates to me that I have plenty of ancestors (including one that never existed) who have been the subject of temple rituals. IMV all irrelevant busy work.

Kentish, I agree with you, it's nonsense so who cares? But... why not change some of the details of the relatives like make small changes to spelling of middle names and maybe change one digit on birth date. If baptism for the dead is really true, they should get a "not baptized, login not correct" error.

>why not change some of the details of the relatives

That's easy. It's a spectacular lack of integrity. If what the Mormons do lacks integrity, that's on them. If what you do lacks integrity, that's on you.

If one is consistently stupid, is that integrity?

Works for me!

Brother Jerry,
You take things way to seriously

If my daughter has us reinstated in the church after we die and it makes her feel better, oh well. It means nothing to me.