+62,000 cats and dogs are locked in U.S. labs, most of which are National Institutes of Health-funded.

Nearly 18,000 of these dogs and cats were subjected to painful experiments, including maximum pain tests with no pain relief.

—Rep. Nancy Mace—

https://x.com/Yolo304741/status/1778455355099398547

Why are dogs, cats and others not allowed to live free in the world like humans. Why are they treated like toys?

wondering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are dogs, cats and others not allowed to live
> free in the world like humans. Why are they
> treated like toys?

Partly (mostly?) because they are not considered sentient beings. Here are two pages from the RSPCA that discuss in simple terms what sentience means and how being used in research affects the animals.

https://science.rspca.org.uk/sciencegroup/sentience

https://science.rspca.org.uk/sciencegroup/researchanimals


I appreciate the life-saving (for humans) information that is gathered during scientific research. It's difficult, though, to imagine animals suffering to provide benefits to people. All we can hope is that their suffering is limited and their contributions appreciated. And that perhaps one day soon some other means of scientific research can be found. Although what and how I have no clue.

Just think how many animal lives Unit 731 saved

That the US did not prosecute [removedxxx] General Shiro Ishii is a war crime all on its own.
Instead he was paid for his notes - even as his [removedxxx] did experiments on US and Aussie POW's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2024 08:47PM by Maude.

We've domesticated and bred dogs especially to the point that only some are suited to survive in the wild.

Imagine the human owners of the "heavily civilized" breeds trying to exist in the wild with their pets!!

As soon as I ran out of moisturizer, I'd climb a mountain and jump...

Is this a gullibility test, or what?

As a matter of course, I take anything on Ex-twitter with a bag of salt. Ditto anything from Nancy Mace, which makes OP a two-bagger.

While I am not familiar with the safeguards for animal research, I am familiar with the safeguards for human research, as a participant in studies, having a family member who engaged in human medical research, and as a med school employee myself who saw the process up close and personal from the administrative side. You'd be amazed at the number of hoops that have to be jumped through to conduct research on humans. While I assume animal research has fewer hoops, I am confident the number of hoops is still impressive.

Is everything perfect? No. It's never perfect. Is it better than it used to be? Yes. Is it good enough? No, for the exact same reason it is never perfect. Are the charges made in the OP valid? I have no idea, since there was zero corroborating evidence cited. Since the charge is made by a politician who tends to be anti-science and anti-government, lambasting a scientific research arm of the government (NIH), let's say I'm skeptical.

"Ex-Twitter": I haven't seen that 'new name' before. Excellent!

Of course I've heard and seen the 'X' part.

It's highly annoying that so many people now call it: 'X, formerly Twitter'.

BoJ has given them a better, pared down, way to ID the site. So funny that by sound the new name "ex" comes before the old name. Way snazzier than 'X, formerly Twitter'. Shorthand if you will.

If I was the one who changed my name and so many people couldn't adjust to the new one I'd be highly motivated to just forget the whole thing.

Signed: Blue Jay, formerly known as Nightingale.

Human likes ominously to accuse the United States of various sins, often neglecting to acknowledge that Canada is in fact worse.

A few weeks ago, for example, he stridently denounced the United States for failing to impose a ceasefire on Israel for its atrocities in Gaza. He ignored, however, the fact that Canada had refused even to endorse the idea of a ceasefire.

This thread further substantiates that hypocrisy. For Canada's scientists conduct experiments on animals all the time. In fact, the Canadian system of oversight is much laxer than that of the immoral superpower to the south.

Thus an NIH paper* authored by Canadian bioethicists notes:

"Canada is a rarity among industrialized countries in lacking nationwide legislation addressing the use of almost all animals in scientific activities. . . [Canada] has no equivalent to the provisions enacted by European Union countries. . . Nor does Canada have an equivalent to the U.S. Animal Welfare Act. . . or, for that matter, the “Common Rule”, which governs the use of humans in research in the U.S."

But that's just the start. The authors proceed to list many other countries that have stronger protections in place, including the UK, Australia, New Zealand. Canada is the outlier--the country that provides substandard protection for animals in research facilities--and not the United States.

Physician, heal thyself.




*https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8944469/

Nice people are the ones you have to worry about.

Re animal testing:

From Health Canada (June 7, 2023)

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/news/2023/06/health-canada-announces-the-end-of-cosmetic-animal-testing-in-canada.html

Excerpts:

"Today, the Honourable Jean-Yves Duclos, Minister of Health, announced that the Government of Canada has banned the cruel and unnecessary testing of cosmetic products on animals in Canada, representing a major step forward in supporting animal welfare by reducing our reliance on animal testing, while ensuring health and safety.

...

“Cruelty Free International applauds the Canadian Government for taking action to fulfil the wishes of the vast majority of Canadian citizens who supported a ban on animal testing for cosmetics. This has been a unifying issue that has earned cross-party support in Canada and will match the progress we are seeing around the world as consumers, companies, regulators and advocates come together to achieve a common goal of ensuring that animals won’t suffer for the sake of cosmetics anywhere." (Monica Engebretson, Head of Public Affairs North America, Cruelty Free International)



From Cruelty Free International (Dec 20/23)

https://crueltyfreeinternational.org/latest-news-and-updates/shocking-increase-use-dogs-and-monkeys-experiments-canada

Excerpts:

"In 2015, we estimated Canada to be the fourth biggest user of animals in scientific research in the world, behind only China, Japan and the United States of America. Those estimates also calculated Canada to be the third biggest user of dogs and the fifth biggest user of monkeys.

"Our Head of Public Affairs North America, Monica Engebretson, said, “Far more needs to be done to end the cruel use of animals in research and testing. We had hoped to see a much larger decrease in the number of animals used, when public demand for humane science, and the development of non-animal testing methods, are both increasing.

“These figures highlight the need for other sectors to follow the lead of the Canadian cosmetics industry which broadly supported the passage of the Canadian government’s ban on animal testing for new products and ingredients, which comes into effect on December 22. There was overwhelming support from the public, politicians, and companies for the legislation and we now need this ethos of collaboration, innovation, and commitment to be adopted by other industries and sectors.”

-----

Obviously though, still lots more work to do. Fortunately, some humans do care.

Thanks for the update.

It's nice to see that Canada is trying to "match the progress we are seeing around the world. . ." There really was no excuse.

And I agree with you that virtually all countries must do better.

It's surprising and disappointing when the general impression we have of our country is that we care about the well-being of fellow humans and all the creatures we share this planet with but just a quick check amply demonstrates we're very slow at times to get up to speed in ways that should be no-brainers.

A friend mentioned today the fish in Florida that are swimming in circles and then dying. So far the cause is unknown. By coincidence I happened to see video of the phenomenon today at lunchtime and I felt bad for the fish, wondered if they were suffering, and hoped they were not. Although obviously something is disturbing them, literally to death.

Then I mused about myself worrying about fish being uncomfortable, to say the least, and dying prematurely. The sentiment surprised me as I haven't until now spent much time puzzling over fish and what they're up to.

It's too easy not to care. Or even notice.

Agreed.

My only point in this thread is that Human lets his anti-US emotions overwhelm his rationality. Canada has 40 million people and yet the country tortures more animals than all other countries besides Japan, with three times Canada's population; the US, with eight times that population; and China, with 35 times Canada's population, meaning that your country is extraordinarily indifferent to the fate of test animals.

Note also that "over 105,000 animals (2.8% of the total) were used in experiments classified as causing the most “severe pain near, at, or above the pain tolerance threshold of unanesthetized conscious animals”. That is precisely what Nancy Mace was underscoring when, in Human's paraphrase, she condemned "maximum pain tests with no pain relief."

And who is doing all that scientifically rationalized torture? "A surprisingly high total of 50% [of the maximum pain animals] were used for regulatory tests." In other words, the democratically elected Canadian government is the primary malefactor.

Canada does a LOT of things better than the US does, but this is not one of them.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2024 08:31PM by Lot's Wife.

It's terribly disappointing (understatement). It's awful to read articles like the one below about one's country that is supposed to be so wonderful (it is in many ways, of course, but in some it's got a long way to go).

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/op-ed/nicholas-read-when-it-comes-to-animal-welfare-canada-is-no-world-leader

I've seen other recent articles that certainly didn't rank Canada as near or at the top of the "the worst offender" list.

When I was a kid my parents treated us to many trips to Stanley Park, where the zoo was our favourite part. Even as a fairly clueless pre-teen, however, I was bothered by the sight of the polar bears wandering slowly and aimlessly around their enclosure which was a deep pit with ascending layers of steps, all of it concrete. There was a small pool in the middle where only one or two bears could fit in at a time and maybe a few wisps of greenery around and about. I thought they looked so sad and their fur was yellowish, not the pristine white I was expecting.

They eventually phased out the entire zoo. The last bear, Tuk, was kept there until he died in 1997 at the age of 36. Excruciating to think of all the years he spent in captivity in that cement hellhole and at the end, for quite a long time, he was alone as the only surviving bear.

I think now that if a kid could feel the pain of it all you'd think the adults would catch on, and faster.

We're a good country in many ways but we have done our fair share of harm, which continues in some spheres, most unfortunately.

For what it's worth, I think Canada is a great country. It enjoys rare benefits from its propinquity to the US, including massively subsidized national defense and copious foreign demand that entails much more economic growth than most countries experience. Those two forces are enormously helpful.

That said, I think your country has played a very strong hand quite well.

Here's an example of humans doing everything in their power to assist a stranded baby whale after the death of its mother. Their efforts so far have been spurned by the calf. They're thinking that it isn't ready yet to leave the area where its mother recently died (pregnant and beached). Touches your heartstrings. Hoping for the best. Poor little lonely babe.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/rescuers-begin-attempt-to-save-stranded-orphaned-b-c-killer-whale-1.6844414