A couple years ago I made the drive to the Bear River Massacre site, a mile or so NW of Preston, ID, along the Bear River, just across the Utah border, north of Logan, UT.

There is a stone and concrete monument and two plaques. The earlier one describes the event as a battle to protect the white settlers. The more recent plaque indicates it was an attack on largely unarmed natives at their traditional over-wintering grounds. They had used the same area for generations because there was a high bluff to the north, that broke the wind of winter storms, and there was a hot spring, which kept the Bear River from freezing there, providing easy access to water.

It is interesting to see the two competing narratives on opposite sides of that monument.

The story linked below is about the history of the markers at the Mountain Meadows Massacre site. The main interviewee is Richard Turley, retired LDS Church historian who I think could fairly be categorized as a church apologist, and certainly TBM. Even he did not try to sugar-coat the resistance among the southern Utah locals to not describe what actually happened at Mountain Meadows, and how the narrative has been changed over the years to include saying that local Mormons were the basic perpetrators.

It is a fairly long article. I'm by no means an expert on MMM. I'd never even heard of it until I was in my 50s. The article had a number of details I was not aware of. Public radio - no paywall. :)

https://www.kuer.org/race-religion-social-justice/2024-04-22/for-150-years-site-markers-didnt-name-who-committed-utahs-mountain-meadows-massacre



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2024 11:25AM by Brother Of Jerry.

I have visited the MMM site + Juanita Brooks’ home where she wrote her classic expose book.

To be sure, there were Lots of negative vibes at the site.

We still are aware by current reminders of religion/ Momism’s effects of fringe ‘believers’.

Whether I agree with him or his church or not, Mr. Turley is absolutely right when he says:

“Today, we're in a period of increasing polarization, and most of us can never imagine being involved in such group violence. And yet, history teaches us that as people begin to vilify one another, the ultimate result — if not checked — is violence.”

I wish more people would recognize this truth, but we are all ruled by our emotions.

We visited the area in 2018.

It was in the morning, slight breeze, and wild birds were occasionally chirping.

We were the only visitors there.

We both experienced a profound sense of sadness, mingled with respect for the murdered.

Both the United States and the Arkansas Flags are there, high on a flag pole.

The MMM occurred because of Brigham Youngs' greed.

> The MMM occurred because of
> Brigham Young's greed.


Another important motive was revenge against *Arkansas* for the death of Parley P. Pratt in May of that year's September 11 attack.





Also, as a prophet, Brigham knew that the Arkansas State Patrol would make Utah and many other states look bad by routinely performing PIT/TVI maneuvers at ANY speed!

We were there just two days before it was to become a National Historic Landmark in 2011. People were there setting up US and Arkansas flags, along with other things in preparation for the upcoming ceremony. We met some Fancher descendants. It was quite sobering.

TG

"When" I come to the United States, it's one of the places on my list...

I have been to MMM site several times since 1980. My mother was living in St. George and suggested we take a drive up there. I asked her what happened there and she let me read her book by Juanita Brooks. I had never heard of it until then.

Things got moved around over the years, signs added, walkways added and the last time I was there a granite monument had been added with an iron fence and gate around it. What could be more mormon than that? It always has a sad hollow feeling---nothing like a "mountain meadow" should feel. I assume it was once a green lovely area with a spring or a creek.

The more I learn about the details, the more I think Brigham Young planned it, staged it and let it happen. He knew who was coming and where they would be along the dirt road and it was a road---more than a small trail.

> The more I learn about the details, the
> more I think Brigham Young planned it, staged it
> and let it happen. He knew who was coming and
> where they would be along the dirt road and it was
> a road---more than a small trail.

You say BY "planned" and "staged" it and then "let it happen," which are of course different things. Brooks and Bagley both put the emphasis on Young's firing up of the Mormon people in anticipation of the impending invasion by the federal government, which did indeed occur.

But that's not the same thing as "planning" or "staging" the event. In fact, Wilford Woodruff wrote in his diary that the FP thought their incitement was more likely to result in violence on the Oregon Trail to Utah's north. They did not think bloodshed would occur in the south.

Ultimately, however, that doesn't matter much. Like any political leader, BY was responsible for the atrocity he encouraged. As those authors argued, furthermore, he assuredly did nothing to stop the massacre once it was underway. There is even circumstantial evidence that once the violence had started and after a few days' deliberations, he encouraged the Dixie Mormons to slaughter the Arkansans so that there would be no surviving witnesses.

In short, there was no "planning" or "staging" orchestrated in SLC; BY and his counselors were unprepared for what transpired. But there was incitement beforehand and afterwards at the very least a refusal to stop the massacre over the five days or so that it took. In your words, BY "let it happen."

In my book, that's damning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2024 07:22PM by Lot's Wife.

It's almost like the leaders who encouraged violence should be held accountable too! Who knew.

Be careful. Replying to a post of mine is likely to get you vaporized, especially when you draw the inescapable political conclusion.

I know. Let's not go there.

As a general principle, there should be nothing controversial about the proposition that leaders, religious or political, are responsible for the predictable results of their exercise of power.

A rule that discourages such elementary logic is ridiculous.

Which book is yours?

My book is not published yet. Brigham waited for the right wagon train,(A very rich one with experienced wagon drivers with lots of cattle and gold)then Brigham monitored their movements and numbers by paying lookouts and Indian spys for information. Brigham read private mail coming and going and he read all California newspapers. He waited until the Baker/Fancher group felt comfortable in the spring area---- so they would let their guard down and spread out to feed and water their cattle. Brigham then slaughtered them. Who else would have said "don't kill the little ones who can't talk"---- we will baptize them instead. Brigham was in charge of all of it. Ay least in my book.

For all the traveling I have done, I have never been to the MMM site. I suppose I should rectify that.

I only first went to the Bear River site a couple years ago. It was a sobering experience. The NW band of the Shoshone has purchased a square mile of land the includes their traditional wintering grounds along the Bear River, which was also the site of the massacre.

They are removing the invasive Russian olive trees, working on planting many thousands of native trees, and creating parkland, an educational and memorial site, a pavilion with facilities for lectures, etc. Their goal is to recreate the safe and happy place that area represented for the vast majority of the time they lived there, and not just the massacre, which was a one day event.

They had their first volunteer tree planting day last November. I’d have to look up the exact numbers, but I think there were 400 volunteers, mostly from SLC, probably about half teens, and I think they planted 12,000 trees. The band is planning two tree planting days each November for the next three or four years.

That may sound like a lot of trees, but you’d be surprised how many trees can fit into a square mile. I once had a cabin on a fifth of an acre of land, and decided one time to do a careful count of all the trees on the lot. 125. Minnesota.

Pish-Posh!!

There are only 640 acres in a square mile!  You could barely fit four golf courses into that space, and they'd have to share a driving range and practice greens!!

Look up Doghair forests.

https://www.summitdaily.com/opinion/columns/an-earthly-idea-replacing-our-forests-with-hair-of-the-dog/

After a forest fire, depending on the species of remain trees, as many as 100,000 trees can be seeded on an acre of land.

The trees grow relatively tall and very thin. I've been to sites that are 40-60,000 trees per acre, one can't walk thru the area, only around it.

My über Mormon sister in Portland survived as member by closing out any information that upsets her. So she thinks every discouraging word regarding Mormonism is anti-Mormon claptrap. So if you talk about MMM, she'll virtually stick her fingers in ears, and go "bluh-bluh-bluh..." she doesn't believe anything about Bear River is true. In fact, I once was talking about the Tulsa race massacre, and she said she had never heard about that, and because I'm a liberal, I was just trying to make our beloved government look bad. She lives in a bubble of ignorance, intolerance, and racism. Really a good Mormon, I guess.

It's a 'thorn in their hide', but it's refreshing that the memories are being told & retold.

me: BYU should be renamed to Juanita Brooks University, which would honor & elevate the value of truth & truth-telling.


Are you LISTENING, ChurchCo?

Went there a few years ago with a friend who has no connection to Mormonism but a strong sense of connection to ancestors who settled Idaho land off the Oregon Trail. His sense of outrage was more profound than my own.