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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: June 12, 2024 06:49PM

Hmmmmmm...


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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/12/southern-baptist-convention-ivf-vote

Largest Protestant US group condemns IVF in win for anti-abortion movement

The largest Protestant group in the US has condemned the use of in vitro fertilization, a move that is sure to inflame the already white-hot battle over IVF and reproductive rights in the aftermath of the overturning of Roe v Wade.

On Wednesday, during the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting, delegates voted in favor of a resolution that urges Southern Baptists “to reaffirm the unconditional value and right to life of every human being, including those in an embryonic stage, and to only utilize reproductive technologies consistent with that affirmation”.

The resolution in effect calls on the Southern Baptist Convention – a group that includes nearly 50,000 churches and almost 13 million members – to avoid IVF.

The success of the resolution is a major victory for the anti-abortion movement, swathes of which have long opposed IVF on the grounds that providers create embryos that are not implanted in a woman’s uterus or are set aside after being screened for genetic anomalies. It also advances the tenets of “fetal personhood”, a movement to enshrine embryos and fetuses with full legal rights and protections that, if fully enacted, would rewrite vast swaths of US law.

The Catholic church already officially opposes IVF, but the issue has not historically loomed as large among Protestants. Majorities of both white non-evangelical Protestants, white evangelical Protestants, and Black Protestants all support access to IVF.



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https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/12/opinion/genz-women-organized-religion.html

Alexis Draut, 28, was raised Christian in Kentucky. Her parents took her and her sister to nondenominational megachurches that adhered to a lot of Baptist and Pentecostal ideals, she said. As a kid, she loved the way every service felt “like a concert,” filled with music and light, and she made loads of friends through church. She went to Berry College in rural Georgia, a place that she described as “steeped in Southern culture, where religion is incredibly important.”

But even surrounded by believers as a college student, Draut began to question some of the values she was brought up with. Specifically, she took issue “with the sexism, with the purity culture, with being boxed in as a woman.” She couldn’t stomach the notion that “you only have these specific roles of childbearing, taking care of the children, cooking and being submissive to your husband,” she told me. “That was also around the time that Donald Trump was elected president,” she added. “So I didn’t want to associate with that kind of evangelicalism.”

Draut is representative of an emerging trend: young women leaving church “in unprecedented numbers,” as Daniel Cox and Kelsey Eyre Hammond wrote in April for Cox’s newsletter, American Storylines. Cox and Hammond, who work at the Survey Center on American Life at the right-leaning American Enterprise Institute, explained: “For as long as we’ve conducted polls on religion, men have consistently demonstrated lower levels of religious engagement. But something has changed. A new survey reveals that the pattern has now reversed.”

While over the past half-century, Americans of all ages, genders and backgrounds have moved away from organized religion, as I wrote in a series on religious nones — atheists, agnostics and nothing-in-particulars — young women are now disaffiliating from organized religion in greater percentages than young men.

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Posted by: Skaggerak ( )
Date: June 12, 2024 06:57PM

So you've taken two unrelated articles and spliced them together for cherry picking purposes.

Yes, people are leaving religion, but the religions which stick to their guns on issues (even controversial and questionable ones like this) are the ones who are retaining numbers and growing... Not the ones that are more willing to compromise with contemporary mores.

This point is completely lost on Russell M. Nelson.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: June 12, 2024 07:24PM

and become more and more extreme like the SBC and other EV churches. But they haven't.


I don't think they believe a word of Joseph Smith's fantasies and other silly stories about them meeting with Jesus in the Temple.


They probably do think Mormonism is a "pious fraud" or something similar and keep it going historical and personal reasons -- not to mention the corporate tax write-off.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 12, 2024 10:22PM

The population of the SBC has been shrinking, oddly enough. This is the first time that I've heard of a conservative, Evangelical church losing membership.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 13, 2024 12:18AM

>So you've taken two unrelated articles and spliced them together for cherry picking purposes.

Cherry picking is deliberately leaving out information that (often blatantly) undercuts your narrative, What's being left out that blatantly undercuts anybody's narrative? SBC took an anti-reproductive rights stand, which is going to piss off a lot of women. Second article - women are leaving (US) religions in large numbers. The articles are relevant to each other and appear well supported by the evidence.


>Yes, people are leaving religion, but the religions which stick to their guns on issues (even controversial and questionable ones like this) are the ones who are retaining numbers and growing... Not the ones that are more willing to compromise with contemporary mores.

You've said this before, so I'll assume you actually believe it. I do not. For example, SBC is one of those religions that is sticking by its guns, and this is from an article in Christianity Today from last month:

Despite years of record-setting declines shrinking the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) to its lowest membership in nearly half a century, Southern Baptists have begun to see some signs of life within their 46,906 churches.

Worship attendance, small group attendance, and baptisms were up last year in the SBC’s annual statistical report, released Tuesday, while membership fell below 13 million.

2023 marks 17 straight years of decline for the country’s biggest Protestant denomination. It’s down 3.3 million from its peak, with the steepest drops coming during the pandemic. The SBC lost 1.3 million members between 2020 and 2022 alone.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2024/may/southern-baptist-church-decline-sbc-annual-church-profile.html

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 13, 2024 12:26AM

LDS Inc never has the "shrinking membership" problem that SBC is experiencing because LDS Inc simply refuses to acknowledge that people leave or die. They think this is clever.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: June 12, 2024 07:16PM

Yes, the vote against IVF is cruel and ridiculous.

Their whole religion is based on some bizarre IVF story with Mary for cripes sakes.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: June 12, 2024 07:44PM

dagny Wrote:
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> Their whole religion is based on some bizarre IVF
> story with Mary for cripes sakes.

Interesting point.

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Posted by: Scooby Doo ( )
Date: June 12, 2024 08:11PM

Just curious, Has there ever been a Thus Sayeth The Lord, or any official LDS Church statement on INV?

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: June 12, 2024 08:27PM

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/7/31/21349687/church-handbook-changes-released-latter-day-saints-mormon-lds/

"While the handbook noted that reproductive technology can help a married woman and man have children and decisions ultimately are left to their prayerful judgment, the church:

Continues to discourages surgical sterilization, such as vasectomies and tubal ligations, as an elective form of birth control, with the handbook deleting a section about the issue and moving the policy into the birth control section.
Continues to discourages artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization using sperm from anyone but the husband or an egg from anyone but the wife. The handbook update merged the sections about the two procedures.

.
.
.
Requires First Presidency approval for a child born to a surrogate mother to be sealed to parents in a temple, a long-standing policy not previously included in the handbook."

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 13, 2024 12:03AM

Interesting. So egg donor or sperm donor are discouraged, but adoption, which is essentially egg donor, pregnancy surrogate and sperm donor combined, is OK.

Puzzling.

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Posted by: Scooby Doo ( )
Date: June 13, 2024 05:51AM

Thank you [|]

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: June 12, 2024 08:37PM

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/politics/senate-ivf-protections-schumer-smga3ro7

individuals have the alternative choices of either 'obeying' these edicts or IGNORING THEM!

Somewhere in between, lots of folks, men (vasectomies, etc.) & women (lots more choices) use their individual sense of Right/Wrong, with again many people don't think in the Right/Wrong paradigm that churches & religions seem to prefer.

I think Mormon leaders have learned to fence-sit & walk a tightrope on these issues, mostly not to offend people into walking & not returning.

A walking woman (multiple women) of fertility age is a clear danger point/hazard for ChurchCo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2024 08:40PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 13, 2024 05:10AM

Well, to at least some degree, that's what happened in the Roman Catholic church. Women and couples started ignoring the church's ban on birth control. Heavily Catholic countries such as Italy and Ireland authorized abortion.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 13, 2024 05:12AM

The ban on IVF is going to piss off a *lot* of people who would otherwise follow the SBC rules. This is how many people have their families, and they are not about to have a church interfere with that.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: June 14, 2024 11:00AM

Why stop at fertilization? Life should begin at the heavy petting stage. Doesn't pro-life mean more hanky panky not less?

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: June 14, 2024 03:59PM

is there a chance that some women want to AVOID having sex but who wish to have a child / children?

Isn't that a reasonable if not logical part of women's rights ... to have children if they're not married / can't find their Dream Walking Wallet? aka Reproductive Freedom.


This appears that 'by the book' religious types (including Mormons!) want / 'need' a solid connection between sex & having children?

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