One of the movies that I got to watch with my OB/GYN Dad was the Academy Award winning "The Story Of Louis Pasteur" starring Paul Muni. There's a scene in the film where Pasteur's wife is in labor and Louis Pasteur is begging his doctor friend to wash his hands as a personal favor before delivering his child.

Germs are real, and they can kill you -- no matter what any crazy pastor or prophet says.

############

https://www.npr.org/2024/12/06/nx-s1-5220272/testing-usda-bird-flu-raw-milk-california


The U.S. Department of Agriculture issued a federal order requiring the testing of the nation's milk supply amid increasing concerns over bird flu.

The influenza virus has been raising alarm since it was detected in a Texas cow back in March. Since then, the virus has spread to over 710 dairy herds across 15 states, with California reporting the highest number of infections. At least 58 people have been infected with bird flu, including one child living in the San Francisco Bay area.

Yes, sadly there has been a trend towards raw milk in certain circles. I guess some people have to learn the hard way.

Lest we forget...

Fundies & other cult members seem to be immune from Facts,
at least temporarily, that is.


How many people suffered & died from COVID bc someone told them the vaccine was harmful?

IDK if anyone suffered or died from the ChemTrail conspiracy, but lots of ppl believed it.

many others, the Cargo Cult also comes to mind...


WRITE THIS DOWN:

too much legal exposure/liability wise, the majors will 'Never' sell it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2024 05:36PM by GNPE.

DO NOT BUY THAT CRAP! One of my cousins in an attempt to save money got his whole family very sick and one of his sons almost died. A strong, healthy 15 year old was in bed for damn near a year. After he could get out of the bed he was still sick and weak for almost another year. So it was close to two years before the kid could compete in sports and go back to a normal life.

What ever new woo woo they are pushing about it now, just don't do it. It is NOT worth the risk.

I suspect that some people don’t realize what it was really like before vaccinations against childhood diseases, and before pasteurization. My generation got the small pox vaccine (I still have the scar on my arm), and future generations in the USA didn’t need it. I think they came around to schools and inoculated all of us. And polio was not a scare for my generation because there was a vaccine by then which we got.

And you’re right, the risk of nonpasteurized milk is not worth it.

TG

I have the little round scar too but I don't remember about polio. I do remember seeing pics of iron lungs and a lot of kids with braces on their legs. My mother had a very mild case of it. I had a major case of measles, I am lucky I didn't die or become blind. I had chicken pox multiple times even though that is not supposed to happen. I just shake my head at the clueless people these days. Those things were developed for a reason!!!

And get this TG, take a look on YT for unschooling. Kids that are NINE that don't know their bloody alphabet and that is just fine! They will learn when they want to?!? Mind you, this is not home schooling where they are at least attempting to teach, oh no. This is teach them nothing unless they ask! Let them play vid games all day and you sit there and read it to them! It is just insane. I think it is child abuse.

Yep. I know about unschooling. I homeschooled my daughter for many years because, with her having Down Syndrome, I figured I could do a good job with giving her plenty of individual attention. And I had a teaching degree. She was reading by age 6, and that is one of her greatest passions. I used the Montessori method. She reads huge books like Les Miserables, and the Outlander series. People are amazed at her vocabulary, which isn’t just from me, but also from all the reading and memorizing she does on her own.

She did attend preschool and I made sure she had plenty of social activities like dance class, etc. Some homeschooling folks keeps their children isolated so they don’t learn the ways of the ‘world.’ But how can you expect them to function successfully in the world if they’re not exposed to it?

TG

"But how can you expect them to function successfully in the world if they’re not exposed to it?"

Exactly. I started watching this show about a family that had homeschooled and it is shocking how much the kids, now adults, don't know. Not even "worldly" things but what the Fourth of July is about! And boy as adults they really can see how much their parents set them up for failure. I can imagine how these "unschooled" kids will feel when they hit their 20s.

You went at it the right way for the right reasons and your daughter is the proof :)

I hope you got the Shingrex shot. Shingles and chicken pox are caused by the same virus. It remains dormant and can reactive later in life as shingles. It's very miserable.

Bird flu is probably the least of things I would worry about from raw milk which include:

E.coli
Salmonella
Listeria
Campylobacter
Staphylococcus
Coxiella
Brucella
Tuberculosis

among others

Raw milk usually isn’t a problem if it’s fresh. I drank it on my grandparent's farm. It needs to be homogenized if you are bottling it and selling it. Now you don’t want to be drinking milk that the cow stepped in the bucket or took a dump into.

I already don't drink milk. But if I did, I'd quit after reading these details (not that I have never heard them before). If you think about things too much you'd pass away from starvation because there's a lot of ick & yikes out there.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Raw milk usually isn’t a problem if it’s
> fresh. I drank it on my grandparent's farm. It
> needs to be homogenized if you are bottling it and
> selling it. Now you don’t want to be drinking
> milk that the cow stepped in the bucket or took a
> dump into.

Freshness has nothing to do with it. Given time, the pathogens will be killed by the ‘spoilage’ bacteria like the ones that give us sour cream and yogurt.

You drank it on your grandparent’s farm, but that was before E. coli O157:H7 came along and started destroying children’s kidneys.

It only takes a few specks of manure on a cow’s teat to cause a world of hurt. It’s totally a crap shoot (pun intended).

There’s no benefit from raw milk that’s worth the risk.

Could be. You used to be able to drink out of mountain streams but now you take a risk of getting giardia. There’s more ick than there used to be. We never had a parvo or heart worm problem with dogs here until dogs from the south were brought here.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There’s more ick than there
> used to be.

Sources, please. It could be that there’s more ick; or it could be that we’re actually looking for the ick these days.

Lots of us humans insist that things were better in the past - we long for the mythical, problem-free Eden.

IMO: it all boils down (no pun intended) to a conviction that they are of a superior essence than the rest of us. So anything that smacks of the commoners must be avoided at all costs lest they become polluted by their choices. The rest of us can go to hell. They don't care.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/hindu-mahasabha-fighting-coronavirus-cow-piss-and-dung-party/


India’s official Ayurvedic ministry termed AYUSH is out here asking everyone to use homeopathy to deal with coronavirus, while Baba Ramdev—part-time spiritual guru and full-time cow urine enthusiast—encourages yoga as a way to protect yourself. However, one Hindu organisation out here takes the (cow dung) cake because they’re convinced they can defeat coronavirus with cow piss and poop. Yep.

The Hindu Mahasabha, the same guys who had earlier said that coronavirus is the angry avatar of a Hindu god who has unleashed its wrath to punish non-vegetarians, is now convinced that the only reason India has seen a surge in cases is because some Telangana ministers angered the avatar by eating chicken on a public stage. They not only want these ministers, who were ironically trying to bust the myth that eating chicken causes coronavirus, to apologise to “corona” if they want to put a stop to the catastrophe, but also have another amazing idea. Their miraculous solution to this public health crisis is to rely as they always do on the magical healing properties of their chosen mother: the holy cow.

I was raised on raw goat milk, from the day my mother weaned me, until mid-teenage.
This included me having the milking chores, by hand (no automatic milker equipment) starting when I was six years old.
I was made aware of the responsibility how do do the milking.

No one ever got sick.
Proper treatment of the animals and handling of the milk was key.

Each goat would be brought to the milking stall, their sides brushed and their udder wiped.
After finishing a given goat, their milk was poured into a collector pail, with all the others' milk.
Back in the kitchen, the milk was strained through cheese cloth, while pouring into clean 2-quart jars, and refrigerated.

And if a goat stepped into the pail (it happened rarely), the milk was given to the cats, the pail taken to the house and washed.

Hey there Goat Rodeo,

I have a small herd of Kinder goats that provide the milk I've been drinking almost exclusively for 3 and a half years. Their milk is amazing! My dairy processing is the same as yours. It's all about how you handle the animals and milk after. Plus, goats are a cleaner catch than cows.

I do worry about avian flu though as goats are susceptible to it.

Hi Sassafras,

Goats are smart, aggressive, hierarchical and a total riot!
Baby goats are all of the above, amped up to 11 on a scale of 1-10.

I think we’re missing how long it takes to distribute beverages, especially milk; very few of us have access to raw milk directly from a cow, and very few of us can assess the sanitation or lack of it. I lived in a diary farming area for 20 years, I consumed raw milk once, a neutral experience, health & philosophy wise.

We are bombarded with all manner of concerns lately from too many weapons in sick & evil persons-

Unknown very large drones flying over military bases, mostly during darkness-

- Chinese hacking u.s. cell phone

- tik tok

- plastic cookware causing diseases

FLUORIDE in the water supply, Oh My!

Vaccines: Good or Bad ??

- political extremes / polarization, occasionally causing violence


It’s no wonder people (mentally/ other) flee reality seeking religion, fix-all claims of so-called leaders…

I fondly remember-recall my own Days of Sanity, working 16 hour shifts just out of high school mid 60s earning $2k / month just before ‘my mission’ to Michigan/Indiana…
Yes, I’d like to go back before cell phones, road rage, & too many insane people!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2024 06:10PM by GNPE.

Since you bring up Louis Pasteur, many in France not only drink unpasteurized milk, gasp, but also eat many unpasteurized cheeses made from raw milk. The wonder of it all, eh? Death defying.

Human, in love with Bourgogne

but leave the rest of us out of it.


Pathogens live in the soil and can also be airborne -- even supposedly "clean" animals can still be infected.


Susan I/S gave a good description of what happens when you ignore those facts.

I would just like to confirm that we in France constantly eat unpasteurized cheeses and occasionally drink raw milk. For cheeses, there's no contest: unpasteurized cheeses have so much more flavour. For the milk (which I also find more tasty), you can only buy it from specially designated herds which are constantly monitored - and often the raw milk is 'microfiltered' through a ceramic filter which gets rid of most of the nasties.

Obviously, it's difficult to eliminate the risk entirely, but these measures help to keep it low. And to anyone who thinks I might be taking this too lightly, I worked a lot (as a translator) with my wife's late uncle, who was a veterinary professor at Maisons-Lafitte, who made every effort to impress upon me the gravity of brucellosis, a really horrible disease which you can catch from milk and which is very difficult to banish. He still ate unpasteurized cheeses, though.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1371759626362068&id=164497910421585&set=a.164554013749308

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fwhen-i-was-3-i-walked-to-my-mother-with-a-caterpillar-in-v0-wxf93xp9mk7d1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dd3e1fb6ce70016c40fe20d447b1cf2b6babb3dfd



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2024 01:46AM by caffiend.

Nuts.


This isn't about allergies or asthma.


Average life expectancy in Western countries was around forty in the 1800s -- another factor why people got suckered in religious cults. Death was everywhere.


Puerperal fever?

Smallpox?

Anthrax?

Scarlet Fever?

Polio?

Measles?

Tuberculosis?

An infection from a simple scratch?


A famous US Army survey from WW1 showed that many inductees from the rural South were unfit for service because of ill health and malnutrition.


Use your head and think before spouting misleading ridiculous nonsense.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2024 06:38AM by anybody.

People who drink raw milk are aware of the risks.

Adults are, but what about children?

Drinking milk is potentially dangerous, just like many other life changes are; there's wisdom in limiting/controlling all risks as much as possible.

Some very young children are 'capable' of driving a car, but we strictly limit that for as good a reason.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2024 07:30PM by GNPE.

I do enjoy cheese, butter, and the occasional ice cream. But I can't remember the last time I drank milk. Yes, I drink my coffee black.

The best butter contains cream and salt. It tastes great, too. Margarine is just garbage. I can't believe that was ever legal to sell for human consumption.

I am not a dietician, but I do know that I feel better when my diet contains foods with fewer ingredients. And if a label has a bunch of things I can't pronounce, I just don't buy it.

Perimeter shopping is the way. Visit the produce aisle and the butcher shop, and don't go in the middle where they have processed foods. Skip the bakery, too. That's how I do it, and I'm loving life.

Butter has a very long list of ingredients that are unpronounceable. Labels only list ingredients that are added. If it came from the cow, they don’t list the chemicals.

https://www.webexhibits.org/butter/composition.html

Will the fundies protest if/when a vaccine to treat it comes available?

asking for a friend.

H5N1 has a near 100% mortality rate among chickens. A group of large cats in Washington state I believe got infected and 20 or so died. It is running rampant in California dairy herds. Mortality rates reported in dairy cows is under 2%, though some CA herds reported 10% to 15% losses. Ducks seem to have a very low mortality rate, but other wild birds are having substantial losses.

A 2% mortality rate in humans would be considered a serious pandemic. That was basically where covid started, when cities had to procure refrigerated trailers to store the bodies because the local infrastructure was overwhelmed. Later, when treatment options got better, and the most vulnerable were either dead or recovered, mortality dropped to under 1%. That was manageable.

If it does jump to humans and has a mortality rate in the 10% range or higher, that would be considered a catastrophic pandemic. If your odds of dying start approaching the odds of dying in Russian Roulette, I doubt there will be many anti-vax protests. But what do I know.

There are still Covid-deniers. Tell them the facts, that people died from Covid or went to long-term care, and they don't want to hear it. It's unbelievable to me that people are still in such a state of denial.

Wait until it gets polio.