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Posted by: zliska ( )
Date: January 11, 2025 11:12AM

Joseph Smith stated that the Book of Mormon was “the keystone of our religion,” to which the former LDS Prophet Ezra Taft Benson—the 13th president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from 1985 until his death in 1994—added, “Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.” The Church is beginning to regret Benson’s statement. Like the Book of Abraham, the Book of Mormon suffers from its own massive set of credibility problems. Only political correctness prevents it from being studied in American Literature courses for what it really is: substandard, early-nineteenth-century fiction. Brigham H. Roberts, the LDS Church historian during the early 20th century, laboriously analyzed the Book of Mormon and determined that it was most likely the product of Joseph Smith’s imagination rather than a history of the indigenous inhabitants of this continent. Interestingly, C. S. Lewis, a Christian scholar and writer who is held in high esteem among Mormons, arrived at the very same conclusion. Robert’s analysis, titled Studies of the Book of Mormon (published by the University of Illinois Press in 1985), has been characterized by Mormon apologists as an exercise in “playing the devil’s advocate”. However, if one reads the document, it is obvious that such a characterization is deceitful. Recently discovered scientific information has made belief in the historicity of the Book of Mormon even more untenable. From DNA sequencing, it is now clear that the indigenous populations of North, Central, and South America have no close genetic ties to the Semitic peoples of the Middle East, but rather, to the inhabitants of Asia. Nor is there any linguistic similarity of the indigenous languages to Hebrew. One would expect to find languages having the same degree of similarity to Hebrew as, say, present-day Romanian has to Latin. Logical problems related to the story, itself, abound. The book chronicles the existence of Old World grains, crops and animals which were not indigenous to the Americas. It also mentions the use of many metals which the archeological record indicates were never mined, worked or used by the indigenous peoples. Lehi and his family supposedly left Jerusalem around 600 BC. The Book of Mormon also chronicles two other migrations from the Old World that occurred during the period of 1600 BC to 600 BC. The wheel, which had been invented no later than 3500 BC was in wide use throughout the Old World. Although present in a number of Mesoamerican wheeled toys, very similar to those found throughout the world and still made for children today, Mesoamericans, never developed the wheelbarrow, the potter's wheel, nor any other practical object with a wheel or wheels. Thus, if we accept as factual the Book of Mormon story, three waves of Old World transplants either forgot or ignored what is probably the most important invention in human history. One thing is certain: the wheel was never put to practical use in Mesoamerica until the Europeans arrived in the late 15th century. It is absolutely inconceivable that such an important invention would be lost over time.

The Book of Mormon civilization also flip-flops between states of extreme religious devotion and extreme wickedness over short periods of time. A mere sixty to one hundred people are chronicled as having mined, smelted, and worked a half a dozen types of metals, and as having sufficient surplus time and resources to construct a temple similar to that of Solomon. Such feats completely defy human reason and experience. The crowning moronic fiction taught by the book is that God simultaneously altered the genetic material of all individuals of a group identified as the Lamanites so that all were cursed for their wickedness with a dark skin. This event supposedly explains the origin of the dark complexion of the native peoples of North and South America. The theme of dark skin being a curse for a group’s past wickedness is prevalent in Mormon history and theology. It is also quite amazing that for each miraculous event recorded in the Bible, the Book of Mormon supercedes it with a similar, yet more spectacular, occurrence. Joseph Smith’s claims of having translated the book seem far fetched, as his primary scribe, Oliver Cowdery, stated that he dictated the majority of the book while peering at a magical, translucent seer stone which he had placed in his hat, making no reference whatsoever to the gold plates. Joseph Smith’s legendary connections with folk magic, as well as money and treasure digging, provoked the filing of a criminal complaint against him, for which he was tried, found guilty and fined for disorderly conduct. In addition, his description of the stack of gold plates, from which the translation was supposedly made, is not at all credible. Given their recorded dimensions, they would have weighed almost exactly 200 pounds, which would have made them extremely difficult for even a muscular man to heft and, because of their density, nearly impossible to carry. Nevertheless, Smith claimed to have run several miles and fought off several attackers while carrying them wrapped in his coat. His wife, Emma, claimed to have moved a box containing them many times while dusting the furniture. For veracity, Smith gets a failing grade. I suspect that the primary reason that the current president of the LDS Church, Russell M. Nelson, wants to minimize use of the word Mormon is because he realizes that the Book of Mormon is seriously, if not fatally, flawed. In fact, he knows that it is poison, and that the Church will soon need to deemphasize its importance. Thus, he hopes to sever the connection between the word Mormon and the Church. The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is now known as the Community of Christ, has already accomplished that task, and no longer requires belief in the Book of Mormon, as the word of God, a condition of church membership.

Contemporaneous with his efforts to minimize use of the word “Mormon”, President Nelson held a seminar for new mission presidents at the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah on June 23, 2016. Here is a quote by him at the seminar: “There are some things the Book of Mormon is not: It is not a textbook of history, although some history is found within its pages; it is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics; it is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, but only of particular groups of people.” However, he then said: “The Book of Mormon will be your most effective instrument in bringing souls unto Jesus Christ.” More than five decades ago, as a missionary, I had concluded that the Book of Mormon was not historical. Had I made the same (Nelson’s) statement to Elder Boyd K. Packer at the time, I would have been excommunicated and sent home from my mission. I would like to ask President Nelson the following question: Of which particular group of former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere is the Book of Mormon a record? There is not a scintilla of evidence that the book is, in fact, an historical document.

As the Book of Mormon comes under increasing attack, during the next 10 years, the Church will likely issue a new statement that will go further. Like Nelson’s last statement, it will not be made in a session of General Conference, and it is unlikely that the Church will, anytime soon, admit that the Book of Mormon is a work of fiction. Nevertheless, in the not so distant future—certainly by 2045, the Church will be forced to acknowledge that it is merely a book of inspired, allegorical, theological fiction, much like John Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress, or even Herman Melville’s Moby Dick.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2025 05:24PM by zliska.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 12, 2025 08:39AM

“All men have heard of the Mormon Bible, but few except the 'elect' have seen it, or, at least, taken the trouble to read it. I brought away a copy from Salt Lake. The book is a curiosity to me, it is such a pretentious affair, and yet so 'slow', so sleepy; such an insipid mess of inspiration. It is chloroform in print. If Joseph Smith composed this book, the act was a miracle — keeping awake while he did it was, at any rate.”

-- Mark Twain

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Posted by: lousyleper ( )
Date: January 12, 2025 02:24PM

Now that is classic Twain! Just the way he said it and when was spectacular. It was a miracle, because of the sleepy nature of it!'

Gives me goosebumps, because he is ever so right!

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: January 12, 2025 10:10AM

TSCC is the world's most expensive book club.

What would change if the church did fess up that the BoM is a synthetic work of fiction in the faux religious relic genre?

I'm not sure Mormons would care. Some would not believe it. The BoM is something they built their community around. It doesn't have to be true, it just has to be truthy. Fiction does that.

The church is now a real estate empire that no longer needs its religious arm except for tax reasons. Unless you have an ownership stake, you are a serf.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: February 04, 2025 04:40PM

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It doesn't have to be true, it
> just has to be truthy.

Funny yet sad.

And re the BoM even 'truthy' is a stretch.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: February 04, 2025 06:33PM

It may help you with some problems, but taking the BoM for actual truth leads to a whole new set of problems.

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: January 12, 2025 10:19AM

Grateful that only one decade of my life was lived in the false narrative that is mormonism

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Posted by: lousyleper ( )
Date: January 12, 2025 02:25PM


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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 12, 2025 01:17PM

>> However, [President Nelson] then said: “The Book of Mormon will be your most effective instrument in bringing souls unto Jesus Christ.”

It's an odd statement for Nelson to make considering that many, if not most converts to Mormonism are coming from other Christian churches. Presumably, their souls have already been "brought unto Jesus Christ." Yes, Mormonism feels that it has the correct flavor of Christianity, but I thought there had been more effort in recent years to play nicely with other Christian denominations.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 12, 2025 01:27PM

the part about people migrating here eastward in submarines is accurate, OK?

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Posted by: lousyleper ( )
Date: January 12, 2025 02:27PM


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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: January 12, 2025 02:43PM

With magic, all things are possible. Including absurdities.

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Posted by: BoydKKK ( )
Date: February 07, 2025 01:09AM

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the part about people migrating here eastward in
> submarines is accurate, OK?
------------------

It is and we know it.

Very simple & not finding evidence of them now only proves it more.

We don't find them because they are parked underwater.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: February 07, 2025 08:35AM

Even as a TBM, I was thinking that the dishlike submarine story was pretty fantastical. I'd been in a stall with a horse, and the image of the stall turning upside down with a completely freaked out horse in it would not be a pretty sight. And then there would be the literal s***storm when the horse manure that had been on the floor was now the ceiling after the flip.

Same for cows and bulls, except messier manure.

If they ever do another BoM movie, I want that scene included.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: February 08, 2025 10:24PM

Might I suggest that Joseph got the idea of Jaredite submersibles from his stay in Salem?

Some 45 or so years earlier, during the revolutionary war, the fledgling United States had one of the first submarines used in war.

It was made of two halves bound together and made water tight.

It had a hatch at the top and bottom.

When submerged, it was lit inside by a phosphorus moss.

Sound familiar?

It's often called the USS Turtle.

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Posted by: Sacred Squirrel ( )
Date: February 04, 2025 04:57AM

The LDS is pretending to be a boring Protestant sect (while brownnosing the Pope) so what do you expect?

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Posted by: BoydKKK ( )
Date: February 08, 2025 10:39PM

Maybe those who live in States that are pushing Book Bans can suggest THE BOOK OF MORMON be removed and banned from Libraries?

Might get some interesting support from xxx Evangelicals.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2025 10:51AM by Maude.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 09, 2025 12:20PM

Notoriously absent of any teachings about Honesty, Kindness;

Game Over

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: February 18, 2025 03:33PM

Jeez, GNPE, you keep saying that and it keeps not being true. You really need to work on this fixation.

For those of you who might be new and not aware of the back story about GNPE's claim that the church has abandoned honesty, he went on this kick after they changed one of the TR questions from "are you honest in all your dealings with your fellow man", to "do you strive to be honest in all you do?" Words to that effect - I'm not positive those are exact quotes.

So they basically changed three or four words in a question that members hear every two years when they renew their TR. Based on that four word change, GNPE has blown it up into, and I quote: "Notoriously absent of any teachings about Honesty...".

Not only is that a grotesque exaggeration, but he repeats snarky comments about their abandonment of requiring honesty of members about once every two weeks. Go ahead, do a RFM search on GNPE and word 'honesty' over the last year. He's beating that dead horse into a pink mist.

I wonder if GNPE has ever thought why they made the change. My guess is that too many people were being hesitant in their response because who is honest in "all" their dealings. Ever tell someone you were busy when you really weren't, you just didn't want to deal with them right then? Isn't that dishonest?

On my more cynical days, I would consider the original question the ideal way to get out of having a temple recommend. "Well no, I'm not completely honest in ALL my dealings, I occasionally fudge the truth not to hurt people's feelings." That strikes me as a socially acceptable way to fail a TR interview, and there are probably people out there who would love to not have a TR, but don't have the nerve to simply not get one, because their spouse would have a fit, or whatever. This way they can blame it on an iron-rod bishop.

Anyway, that's why I think the question was watered down. And yes, it was watered down, but like I said, four words, every other year. That does NOT mean the church is completely absent any teachings about honesty. I'm not going to go through two years of GC talks and count the number of times they said something related to honesty, but I'd be willing to bet that there are references to honesty in there. They have by no stretch of the imagination completely abandoned honesty. Give it a rest.


As for your other claim that they have abandoned Kindness, I'm not sure where you got that bee in your bonnet, but you have also brought that up repeatedly, usually locked cheek by jowl with your complaint about their abandonment of honesty. I don't know what phrase triggered that claim, but again, I'd be willing to bet that if you go through two years of GC talks, you will find admonitions to be kind.


There is of course excellent examples of the church not being honest ($100 billion investment fund, hiding thereof; Mark Hofmann documents, purchase and hiding thereof) or kind (Jeff Holland's 'musket speech'; BoA and BoM racism), but that falls under 'do as I say, not as I do'. They say to (strive to) be honest and kind.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: February 09, 2025 11:32PM

Being a TBM requires living in an alternate reality. The factual problems with the BoM are irrelevant because they are outside that reality.

A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest.

Joseph Smith created a successful new religion out of nothing. Wouldn't that pass for a marvelous work and a wonder?

If Mormonism outlived its usefulness, that's okay too because it no longer exists. The church is now mainstream Christianity. Its royalty is a dog and pony show like the British monarchy.

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Posted by: Trusted Media ( )
Date: February 18, 2025 02:32PM

The BoM is one of the few things of much interest left in the church.

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