is the thing that matters most to Mormons- namely, the temple and its rituals. Note to Dallin (since he will be in charge soon): you need to decide which way the wind blows, and you need to do it soon. Evangelicals have already decided that Episcopalians are not actually Christians: https://www.christianpost.com/news/tucker-carlson-says-episcopal-church-not-christian-at-all.html

Dark days are ahead. Dallin and the gang have awakened a sleeping dragon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2025 01:02AM by slskipper.

I'd say there is more than one thing that prevents Mormons from being part of the fold (not that they want to be, as far as I can determine).

Here's a list from just one site of all the elements of Christian belief that Mormons differ on:

"Mormons do not understand history, God, man, salvation, heaven, hell, the cross, Jesus, or the Trinity as the canonical Scriptures teach."

Basically, if you don't believe in the Trinity then traditional Christian denominations don't consider that you are a Christian.

That is my understanding of it anyway.

Of course, the countervailing argument is the question of who gets to decide what or who is Christian.

It largely depends on your interpretation of the Bible and the degree of confidence you have in it.

Too, as Mormons have their own sacred Book (of Mormon) that is seen as also a sign of non-Christian belief due to the biblical warning about not adding to or subtracting anything from the Bible.

That is a primary reason why it's easy for traditional Christian denominations to discount groups such as the JWs and the Mormons as each of those sects have their own book. The JW Bible is called The New World Translation and some scriptures here and there are "translated" or understood differently from how the main body of Christians interprets them. The Mormons' primary book, of course, is The Book of Mormon which, again, traditional Christian groups discount as not being original scripture (i.e. considering it extra-biblical).

I'm fairly sure that even if suddenly the Mormon temples were all decommissioned still that would not be enough for them to be accepted into the mainstream Christian fold. The emphasis is on the basic scriptural beliefs that define mainstream Christianity. Even without the BoM Mormons wouldn't be seen as part of traditional Christianity due to their origins, history and beliefs.

1) I wouldn’t take Tucker “too sleazy even for Fox” Carlson’s opinion as authoritative on anything more controversial than “is it time for lunch.”

2) LDS Inc is stuck with the temple branding every bit as much as McDonalds is stuck with the arches.

3) Even if they wanted to, how on earth could they unload 300 temples and make it so that people no longer see them as Mormon relics?

A temple is a country club church. Only dues-paying members allowed.

As I repeatedly say, Mormonism isn't into Honesty & Kindness as their focus, they substitute their SchtiK instead.

Go to about 6 SM meetings & you'll easily hear repeated, nearly identical messages bc Mormonism is Simon Says 'leadership' which was OK a few decades ago when individuals weren't seeking growth group determined decision-making style; this plainly won't fly anymore outside strict religious groups, such as JWs, Mormonism, Scientology (what's going on with them recently?). 23-Skidoo to sheeple & cat herding!!

Nightingale is right. The Trinity is a major difference between mainstream Christianity and Mormonism.

Other obvious differences tend to be in their understanding of God:
* The idea that we can become gods and that God was once a man. This has been played down in recent years.
* That Heavenly Father is just one of a long chain of gods.
* God is not omnipotent or omniscient.
* That Lucifer is Jesus' younger brother. (This one keeps coming up from Christians.)

Two other things:
* Prophethood (although the president rarely plays that role these days) and exclusivity.
* The idea that other churches have no authority.

I'd say that both SLskipper and Nightingale are right. The temple and its rituals present the initial problems to Christians as it is the visual focus of Mormonism. However, those who explore Mormonism more deeply come to understand the additional problems pointed out by Nightingale and others and they come to realize that the temple and its rituals are much smaller than those between the philosophical problems Mormonism and traditional Christianity.

No way to square this with mainstream Christianity.

I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it.

I would add that the Mormon desire/need to maintain their sense of superiority vs just being a Christian like the rest of the guys is also a hurdle. I remember my niece - a BYU grad - telling me that Mormons had a superior knowledge of Christ. And then, a few weeks later when I was discussing Palm Sunday with an Episcopalian friend wanting to know what Palm Sunday was. My friend was surprised that a Mormon had never heard of the day - this was about 20 years ago when it was still OK to say Mormon. My niece also thought the “Jesus Wants Me for a Sunbeam” was a strictly Mormon hymn and did not believe me when I told her they had borrowed it from other denominations.

I would add that many Mormons have only the vaguest idea what Lent is, or Advent, have never heard of an Advent calendar, and are still only marginally interested in Easter, though the Q15 are trying to polish Easter up a bit.

And the temples that the Christian world is ‘unworthy’ to enter - that will be a constant reminder of Mormon smug superiority.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ... though the Q15
> are trying to polish Easter up a bit.

LOL


> And the temples that the Christian world is
> ‘unworthy’ to enter - that will be a constant
> reminder of Mormon smug superiority.

Good point.

I found them cold, confusing and soulless spaces so I may be slightly biased.

The thing about "Holy Week" and Advent and Epiphany and all that is: that is exactly what American Protestantism thought was evil, starting with the Pilgrims (or Puritans. They were different, but I can't remember which was which). It is exactly what "low church" types wanted to eliminate from the religious experience. That's why Mormons have never heard of them. those are Catholic things. The "high church" Anglican system was an attempt to mimic the Catholic way because that's all they knew regarding religion. The "low church" arose as a deliberate rejection of all that pomp and ritual. Mormonism was a product of that milieu in firmly Yankee New England. The temple thing is an anomaly with the result that you have two distinct components of Mormonism. If you remove the temple thing, Mormonism in 2025 still looks an awful lot like any other low-church Protestant organization. That's why I stand by my initial post.

It frankly bothers me when disaffected Mormons try to criticize Mormonism as not adequately "Christian" when they fail to recognize these calendar events, and it bothers me that modern Mormonism now thinks that observing these events is what characterizes "real" Christians, when in fact that is precisely what Mormonism and the other Christian groups in their club deliberately set out to eliminate.

I did grow up in a city that was overwhelmingly Roman Catholic. I’d guess about 90%. All of my HS friends were RC, as were most of my local relatives, except my grandparents, who were Russian Orthodox.

When I lived in Canada for a few years, my best friend there was the associate warden (dean, in USA parlance) of the Anglican college at the university. So I guess I had more “high church” exposure than the average bear. That is where my attitude came from that Mormons just don’t have much of a Christian vibe, no matter how big they make the letters JESUS CHRIST on their name plate.

OTOH, the associate UU minister in SLC was raised in an EV church in Alabama, and she has mentioned Advent and Lent in sermons. They are hardly high church. UUs are just barely Christian, and decidedly not Trinitarian (hence the name Unitarian). I wonder if the fundie EVs aren’t gravitating more toward what were high church traditions these days.

This is my favourite thread of all time. Not once but twice fellow posters have uttered the delicious words: "Nightingale is right".

I don't often hear that phrase. Here or IRL. It is pleasant to the ears, err eyes.

That is all.

Carry on.

Please. :)

“Nightingale is right"

There’s three.

Haha. Thank you!

Hey, I've been noting NG's "rightness" for years!

:)

then there's that 'detail' about how men (people with a penis) can be sealed to more than one women (people without a penis), but women can only be sealed to one man...

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> then there's that 'detail' about how men (people
> with a penis) can be sealed to more than one women
> (people without a penis), but women can only be
> sealed to one man...

LOL - good descriptors. Men = PWP. Women = PwoP ("Pee-Wop").

Giving one organ top billing.


The sealing bit is yet another example of how there's more than one thing that keeps Mormons on the periphery.

Although I would say the Mormon teaching about sealings is not widely known in the outside world. That is one that would certainly startle a good few folks.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2025 04:03PM by Nightingale.

Exclusive club membership! Conform!

NG wrote:

> The sealing bit is yet another example of how there's more than one thing that keeps Mormons on the periphery.


Not Only does one have to be a Club Member status to observe a friend or relative 'being sealed', you must have a super-duper Platinum designation to attend!!