My nevermo friend described to me this beautiful experience she had this week. She was making the tough decision as to whether be a stay at home mom or go back to work. She had been asking her friends and family's advice, but nothing felt right. Then she had this great experience, and she knew what she needed to do.
I remember being taught that those kind of experiences were from the HG and only those that had received the gift of the HG, could have those. Listening to her though, I can't deny that is the same type of experience that Sister Jones talks about at Testimony meeting. I am just very grateful that I know have a broader view of those experiences. I believe everyone, from every walk of life can have those, it's not exclusive to any particular religion. I always believe you do have to be in tune to have those. But in tune to what? Mother nature, your soul, god, who knows. I tend to believe it comes from our souls, or whatever you want to call it and don't require any supernatural power. I've probably had more of those experiences since leaving the church.
How about you? Do you still have experiences that you would have previously said came from the Holy Ghost? Any you want to share?

I'm a nevermo and I have experiences in line with what the mo's call a testimony from the holy ghost rather often. I never felt the need to attribute those feelings and experiences to a heavenly spook or anything though. I always just felt like I was right with the universe. I don't even know what that means exactly, but sometimes things just feel right. Because I'm not part of a faith I don't attribute those feelings to godly intervention though, so I do not make major decisions based on them and them alone.

Faith and personal testimonies from other faiths are pretty convincing. Of course the church would have you believe that God works through all people giving them a small portion of light as preparation for receiving the true gospel. What I found interesting and in conflict with my duties as a member of the Bishopric was going online and reading testimonies from other cultures and churches. People of all faiths had much more powerful testimonies than mine, stories that made Ensign articles sound pretty lame.

The church does not, and can not have the corner on the spirituality market. In fact, my own experience (even while anxiously engaged) tells me that it is foolish to dismiss that ministers and priests, Cambodian monks and all kinds of folks have had just as much success at faithhealing/ministration to the sick or whatever you want to call it, as LDS Priesthood holders have had.

Whether that means that there is nothing out there but the power of the human mind, or if it is a god who truly is no respector of persons remains to be seen or judged according to our own perception.

It is true that the mormons do foster a deep tradition and a powerful sense of community, but the spirit of belonging is manifest stronger than the spirit of God. Their faith is based upon covenanting to agree with the current leadership, rather than to follow the promptings beyond the church walls.

It sounds like to me that after a period of indecisiveness, she finally could make a decision on what to do.

It affects many/most of us I would say. Making decisions can be difficult and is what turns our course of life to better things or with ill judgement to worser things.


When I was a youth (around 20 yrs old) and met my first Jehovahs Witness and he showed me what the bible 'really' teaches I felt incredibly Ecstatic having found the ONLY TRUE CHURCH! Yes the only True Church headed by the Watchtower Society that has restored the Truth and has the ONLY Authority to teach Truth etc.

Sound Familiar?

That Ecstatic moment turns out looking back was not The Holy Ghost feeling as I was told by JW's but my own naivety and uneducated stance on Theology. :(

This is the same feeling Mormon Converts must get and then when facts through proper education and then subsequent doubts come along they are told to think back to the feeling they got when they first heard the LDS gospel.

I heard it many times in church. Those Investigators who got baptised and then later stumbled on the facts and started doubting were told to resort to and rely on the feelings they had before they knew the Real Truth about the church!

The Holy Ghost is touted as the Mormon Truth Meter.


It's not the facts, folks, that give truth. It's the spirit. Boyd K Packer said it's a poor meter though.
http://lds.org/ensign/1983/01/the-candle-of-the-lord?lang=eng
--
"We Can Be Deceived"
"Be ever on guard lest you be deceived by inspiration from an unworthy source. You can be given false spiritual messages. There are counterfeit spirits just as there are counterfeit angels. (See Moro. 7:17.) Be careful lest you be deceived, for the devil may come disguised as an angel of light.

"The spiritual part of us and the emotional part of us are so closely linked that is possible to mistake an emotional impulse for something spiritual. We occasionally find people who receive what they assume to be spiritual promptings from God, when those promptings are either centered in the emotions or are from the adversary."
--

In other words, the most important way to LDS in finding the truth (the "spirit") is so easily deceptive, you haven't a freaking chance at finding the truth. It could be god, or it could be satan, or it could be emotions. And how do you tell the difference? LDS leaders never really say. Sounds like a cop out. At least Packer got it right: it's a bad meter to use for discerning truth. The rest of us know, simple facts do just fine.

Thing is most cultures and religious systems have these same burning of the bosom experiences, signs and miracles. Hindus have the chakras, some of which have manifestations of elation, lifting and pure knowledge while meditating. For example, during mediation/mantra recitation (prayer), a flame is felt inside of the heart (part of the heart chakra), from which the mantra rings out; and this cooperates with the brow and crown (mind) chakras for realizing the "Clear Light".

Islam has the "hajj experience" and islamic transformation that are essentially just as strong or more than the mormon burning, as exampled by those who feel so emboldened as to commit suicide for their testimony.

Other xtian churches have spiritual manifestations in feelings, tongues and miracles.

How can anyone claim all these witnesses are false and mormons, who make up barely 0.2% of the world's population, are so much better? All these deeply felt spiritual manifestations are claimed to testify that each belief is true. A spectrum of beliefs that are often contrary to the others at fundamental levels (monotheism vs. polytheism). Is this the truth meter pointing in all directions?

But that's not all. Science has been showing many ways to mimic these spirit effects.

There's the god helmet (though some have failed to duplicate Persinger's results, so take it with a grain of salt):

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html

Here, when the right hemisphere of the brain, the seat of emotion, is stimulated by electromagnetic fields in the cerebral region (presumed to control notions of self), one often senses another presence. Some subjects actually see a personage. What occurs is that the field across the right hemisphere is being interpreted by the left hemisphere (the seat of language) to make sense of a nonexistent entity. This results in the mind generating a "sensed presence" like an angel or god.

Research by the Templeton foundation (a religious org), which have done very careful studies to see if prayer can elicit a great statistical average of medical recovery/healing than controls. They did not.

http://www.templeton.org/newsroom/press_releases/060407step.html

Such that, if the evidence suggests simple prayer is completely ineffective, then one should ask "why does god hate amputees?" If you believe god heal colds, cancer and cankers, how do you explain that he never heals an amputee?

It's the most valid question to ask on the subject of miracles.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

If such strong feelings and visions can testify of such diverse and opposing beliefs, how can you trust them?

For that matter, food can alter mood, and medical science routinely alters mood, perception and even the experience of reality with drugs ranging from prozac to LSD. It doesn't require pharmacology to alter perceptions. Mental illness, brain injury or even just depression does it often without the victim's awareness. how can you believe or trust your feelings to tell you any truth?

No, spiritual experience based on warm chests and stupid thoughts are not truth meters.

There is more research on bosom-burning, called "elevation" here:

Thomas Jefferson noted that uplifting stories cause a visceral reaction: They “dilate [the reader's] breast, and elevate his sentiments as much as any similar incident which real history can furnish.” (1) Only in the last year has any empirical evidence for elevation been published, demonstrating that moral elevation motivates people to emulate role models, do good deeds, and become more interested in relationships (2). In the strongest behavioral finding, moral elevation caused lactating women to hug and nurse their infants (3), suggesting the possible involvement of the hormone oxytocin. Something really is going on in the breast, although of course Jefferson was referring to the chest cavity more generally. Moral elevation has been defined as the emotional response to moral beauty. (by J. Haidt)

1 - Jefferson T (1975) in The Portable Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Robert Skipwith, ed Peterson MD (Penguin, New York), pp 349–351.
2 - Algoe SB, Haidt J (2009) Witnessing excellence in action: The “other-praising” emotions of elevation, gratitude, and admiration. J Positive Psychol 4:105–127. CrossRef
3 - Silvers J, Haidt J (2008) Moral elevation causes lactation. Emotion 8:291–295. CrossRefMedlineWeb of Science

See this for more:
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdh6n/elevation.html

It's interesting to note that oxytocin is involved in the emotional program behind "bonding". Women secrete it more often, during intimacy and breast-feeding. Whomever you are with while secreting it, you tend to trust and bond with. And oxytocin is implicated in elevated mood as well. Apparently, certain activities such as socializing, meditating and just engaging in excitement can cause oxytocin to release.

Opposed to this is testosterone, which creates individual self-security and even aggression towards those invading one's space. It does not elicit trust of others. And yet, those who lack testosterone are particularly susceptible to those with it. It would seem that to mix a little oxytocin with the less secure individual and place them with a person of moderate testosterone (and self-assurance), and you develop a strengthened "trust" from the one to the other needing security and assurance.

This could help explain why religious practice (eliciting oxytocin via moral elevation) produces strong attachments to charismatic leaders (of moderately high, but not aggressive levels of testosterone).