Good Morning,

My husband and I are avid readers of this forum, however neither of us has posted here before. We are, as my screen name suggests, "on the way out". We're just unsure of how to proceed now, and could really use some advice.

A little background info may be useful...

We are both converts. The only ones in our family, and both our families are supportive whether we are in the church or outside of it. No issues there. Both of us have been members for around 7 years.

A few years ago, we left the church. Or at least, we thought we were leaving. We made a big hoo-ha and e-mailed the bishop at the time, saying we weren't coming to church again, here are our reasons etc... Then less than 8 months later, we were back. We were getting ready to start a family, and wanted somewhere with good values etc to raise our children. We got back into the thick of things, were married and sealed in the temple and started our family.

Fast forward to the last few months. Both of us have come to realise that we do not believe in anything that is fundamentally LDS. We identify ourselves as Christian, but definitely not LDS. We now believe that Jesus is nowhere to be found in that church. Both of us have thrown away our garments, and have comfortably slipped back into drinking tea, coffee, alcohol if we feel like it... In secret, of course. We have been "keeping up appearances" with the LDS church, but it's getting to the point now where enough is enough. We simply cannot do it any more.

The problem is, both of us are in prominent leadership callings within the ward, and are described as "stalwarts" of our ward, etc etc... We have many friends that we would love to keep in contact with (although from our departure last time we know this probably won't be possible - those "left behind" are so all-consumed by the church and those in it there is no time for anything and anyone else), and we hate the idea of hurting anyone, but at this point what can we do? We have to be true to ourselves, and we simply do not identify with the church on any level right now. So - how to cut ties?

I would love for us to just disappear into obscurity, but with the callings that we have and our position in the ward it is impossible. I don't much like the idea of writing a long letter detailing why we are leaving and picking apart the religion - because really, what is the point? It won't get us anywhere, and whilst we may not agree with the beliefs, we care about the people within the church and know that they hold them sacred. We don't want to "trash" it to their faces. But then - the other side is because we care about the people in the church and have good relationships with them (for the most part), we don't feel that we can simply send in a letter of resignation and leave it at that. We feel they deserve more than that from us, considering they have been good friends to us.

We would like to find some sort of "happy medium", but have no idea which way to go.

Does anyone have any ideas, or perhaps experiences that they could share that may help us out?

Thanks so much for reading.

-onthewayout

You're under no obligation to stay, regardless of the prominence of your calling. If you want to leave peacefully, I'd suggest requesting release from your callings citing "personal reasons." Politely refuse to go into specifics. Then, once you're released from responsibility, slip into obscurity by going less active. Finish up the process with a resignation letter. You may be amazed at how easy it is to just fade away.

This is what I did when I left (sans the official resignation - family reasons), and it has worked out very well. My wife has very politely turned down the few people who have come asking for me (much to my frustration, but probably for the best. I doubt any member would care to hear my reasons for leaving). Don't make a big fuss when you leave, and ignore it if other people do.

That's exactly what I was going to suggest. Start by resigning your callings. Then start skipping some of your meetings -- perhaps just go to SM or skip every other week.

As you start to fade into inactivity, perhaps you can discuss it with selected individuals, i.e. "The church is not right for us, but we're glad that it works for you. We hope to keep you as a friend."

Remember that you don't ever, at any point, need to discuss your reasons for leaving with anyone.

Being in such prominent roles in the ward could work to your advantage in the long run. You could formally announce your resignation and make it clear that you are neither sinning nor are you offended, you've just allowed yourself to acknowledge what you've known all along: the church is a farce.

You never know how many other people are "on their way out" and just need the right push. You might be it.

kolobian Wrote:
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> make it clear that you are neither sinning nor are you
> offended, you've just allowed yourself to
> acknowledge what you've known all along: the
> church is a farce.


Ah. Golden words of wisdom from Kolobian. He has given you a gift; these words are the perfect summation of your reasons in a nutshell. Succinct and sharp, I would use them exactly in a brief note..

out

I think it's best to get released from your callings, stop attending (maybe gradually, and maybe plan activities on the weekends more often to help the transition).

I recommend being direct and unapologetic with people. For example, "We don't believe _____________ anymore". You could specify The Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham, or whatever applies to you.

But I would not offer specific faith-destroying facts about those things. If they want to know, they'll do their OWN research. And if they DON'T want to know (and most of them WON'T), you won't be a perceived threat to their faith and to the community. Don't be an exmo missionary. It doesn't do ANY good unless a person truly is ready to question. It's just not your responsibility to "save" anyone from Mormonism.

What THEY believe is THEIR business. Make it clear that you aren't going to mess with THEIR beliefs and they can't mess with yours, either.

As far as being unapologetic: Don't show signs of weakness. That includes guilt, anger, being lost, depressed, etc. Otherwise they'll take it as a signal to manipulate and pressure you.

Set boundaries. Don't feel the need to prove your innocence if they tell you that you didn't TRY hard enough, or pray enough. Don't try to convince them that you did your homework, or that you weren't offended. It's none of their business and if they push you, make sure they know that.

You don't need to apologize or ashamed for not believing in the ridiculous.

onthewayout Wrote:
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> The problem is, both of us are in prominent
> leadership callings within the ward, and are
> described as "stalwarts" of our ward, etc etc...
> We have many friends that we would love to keep in
> contact with (although from our departure last
> time we know this probably won't be possible -
> those "left behind" are so all-consumed by the
> church and those in it there is no time for
> anything and anyone else), and we hate the idea of
> hurting anyone, but at this point what can we do?
> We have to be true to ourselves, and we simply do
> not identify with the church on any level right
> now. So - how to cut ties?

Welcome and thanks for posting your story and question. It is good to have you here.

I agree with the idea of merely resigning your callings and fading away, but here are some uncomfortable truths. You may be able to get duck some accountability for awhile but eventually people will figure out you are MIA and you WILL become a topic of PEC and other conversations. No one will believe you have left in good faith and for good reasons, and absent the ability to consider you have good reasons to leave you will be assumed to have been offended--particularly if you leave without offering any explanation. This is just an unavoidable cult-think calculus. You will get love-bombed and various friends will start chasing you down for explanations.

Of course you have no obligation to explain yourself but remember that your silence will not endear you to your "friends" who will be off balance and confused both about your behavior and also your lack of candor.

If you come clean with anyone your friendship and personhood with people will more often than not just disappear and you will only be seen through the myopic lens of your new "status." Your information will explode through the ward gossip-net instantaneously and other more strident pressure tactics may appear, such as a summons to meet with leaders, or worse.

Others may perhaps have more experience than I in measuring the reports of exmos over many years, but I have yet to read an exit story where people were able to preserve their relationships with the majority of their friends. Best result for the most part is that a few loyal friends remained, but often only in private.

You should be commended for showing real love for your friends' feelings and valuing your relationships, though it is likely your friends will not respond in kind. I know after dozens of years of close association and friendship with neighbors and others in leadership callings our family would have fallen on a sword in defense of our friendships when we resigned in the face of predictions that we would be abandoned by them.

That we were wrong was one of the most shocking and difficult realizations of leaving mormonism. Once out we discovered and were able to read many exit stories that also described similar experiences. I sincerely hope I am wrong in your case, but I have seen that the cult-think of mormonism does not allow you to be more valuable than the cult itself. Most likely you are fretting over friendships that will vanish no matter what you do or say.

Hence, I would suggest that you worry more about YOUR family and YOUR boundaries and YOUR successful exit than you do about others' feelings and reactions.

Please remember (when you are kicked to the curb) that you have friends here who have been where you are. Please let us know how things are going for you.

Thank you all for your replies, I was worried about posting - others have had such worse problems than mine - we're very lucky in that we won't be ostracised by any family members for leaving. In fact although they are supportive at our current membership, I can guarantee they will be much happier when we are finally out. I had a conversation with my mum about how we were feeling yesterday, and it was as though I had opened the flood gates - she talked for an hour or more about all the points she disagreed with, and how relieved she was that we would be leaving.

I was thinking about the whole situation today - leaving and how best to do it, whether to write a letter or not, who to tell what to etc... And it just hit me how utterly ridiculous the whole situation is - that I am feeling guilted into having to justify my change in beliefs to the leaders of the church, almost as if I need them to understand why I feel the way I do, that I am making intelligent decisions, that I am still the same person I ever was, and they need to validate my thought process and life choices (although I know they never will in this respect!). I know that is just how the church works, but my goodness is it difficult to get out of that mindset!! I know I shouldn't care about what they think, and I know that in the long run I won't, but right now it's still one step at a time.

Rodolfo - thank you for your thoughts on the friendships we've made within the ward. I know I sounded quite idealistic in my original post, but that's all it is really - wishful thinking. I don't really hold out much hope that things will stay the same as they are with those we currently hold to be good friends. I know we will make new friends, and I am grateful for those we can connect with here. I think at the moment we are just incredibly bitter about the whole thing, because at the church's advice we severed ties with any old friends that didn't hold the same "ideals" as us, and now we couldn't be kicking ourselves more. Who on earth were we to think we were better than them? So now - we're trying in vain to hold on to the only friendships we've allowed ourselves to cultivate over the last 7 years - those within the church - even though we know that they're not true friends.

Sorry - probably nothing constructive there. I think I just needed to vent!

Thank you so much for all your support. I'm sure you all know how lonely this process can feel and it's fantastic to have others who understand :-)

That's it exactly.

You don't OWE anybody anything.

The whole thing is ridiculous. Mormonism is ridiculous. You may care about the people inside. But you see it for what it is. A ridiculous organization that is set up to make you feel like you OWE them. No matter what you've already given.

You don't OWE anybody anything.

Also, you may care for these people who are on the inside, but be prepared when you leave. They may no longer care for you anymore.

I'm not saying that is what is GOING to happen. But it's a good possibility.

Hi all,

I'm onthewayout's husband and I thought I'd drop by and say hello and thank you for all the responses to my wife's post.

I've only just recently properly "figured it out" as it were, having wrestled with the same doubts as my dearly beloved whilst also allowing myself to get caught up in the mindset - frankly, even though I knew I felt the way I did, I allowed myself to keep going back to meetings and activities, I guess so I wouldn't be letting people down. I also realised that at the time I joined the church I was in a pretty wibbly situation with life, not necessarily anything bad but I guess it was more in my head, and so the structure and patterns and leadership etc of the church appealed to me in order to set my life straight as it were, and I figured out this week that I was still clinging on to that structure and "straight and narrow".

Well now I'm over that big first hurdle and now I can accept my position and feelings without any denial or mind-boggling need to keep up my church image and not let anyone down. The biggie still to come now is actually letting go of our callings and getting outta there, so I appreciate the help and support that I've found here since my wife's posting.

Just realised now that I intended just to say hey and thanks, but there you go, you have a bit of my story too!

-imwithonthewayout

Best wishes to you as you and your wife find your way out of the church. Let us know how it goes!

onthewayout Wrote:
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> I think at the moment we are just incredibly bitter about the whole thing, because at the church's advice we severed ties with any old friends that didn't hold the same "ideals" as us, and now we couldn't be kicking ourselves more.

I would go ahead and contact your old friends again. Just explain to them that your (former) church advised you to sever contact with nonmembers, but that now you realize what a terrible idea that was. You've missed them and you hope that they'll forgive you.

That would work for me, and I'll bet it might work for some of your nevermo friends as well!

When I left the church, I knew that I would most likely lose friendships with most if not all the people in the church.

To be quite honest, I wouldn't have even called them friends, the men would rather talk about the priesthood instead of last night's football game, and the women would rather keep teaching their daughters, it is their duty to be a "Stepford Wife".

So when I left, I severed my ties with everyone. It wasn't hard for me cause a majority of the people in my branch lives about 30 miles from the chapel, and were not honestly part of my social circles.

I'm not married, nor have any kids. But if I ever am married or have kids, I don't want them ever having to endure the brainwashing I had to endure 5 years.

I do not suggest leaving the church the way I did, if the members of your branch or ward or stake, make up the majority of your social circles.

It is always interesting to me that members who realize they have been manipulated don't realize that they have also been trained to manipulate and be insincere.

Why not ask yourself what is the most sincere, authentic way to leave? You have already decided to live a sincere, authentic life and that begins with being willing to be who you really are, to say what you really think and feel, always with great respect for the feelings of others.

If you fade away or slink away, the gossip net in the ward will not think you are being kind or authentic. The first thing that will come to mind is that you are having marital problems and are trying to hide it. Someone has had an affair, someone is offended/wants to sin/is sinning/drinking...drugs...got fired.

Why let people scrape the bottom of their imaginative barrel of "what could be wrong with the Jones's."

Take the advice of imaworkinonit and pick one or two main issues that concerned the two of you (do this as a couple). You researched XXX at a church-approved site, reviewed the facts and came to believe that the church had misrepresented the history/document/belief. This lead to further research/discussion/prayer and the two of you decided that FOR YOU, the truth makes a difference. You cannot belong to a church which misrepresents the truth in the name of God.

That is just a short example of a one-paragraph explanation which is specific enough but not too specific.

You and your wife are in a unique position. You say you don't want to "hurt" your friends, yet you don't care that they are being duped by a billion-dollar corporation posing as a religion?

It would be equally valid to "love" your neighbor by being an example of people they admire who found Truth that conflicted with Mormonism and chose Truth. Who courageously and kindly spoke their Truth with tolerance and love (something they won't find in Mormonism). Who chose not to be co-conspirators in the biggest religious con in American history.

Welcome to this board. Here you will find out how people really think, and possibly even real friends in your own area!

Anagrammy

Thank you Anagrammy - I'm one of those who have just gone inactive, haven't resigned, and haven't told my family. I know exactly why I don't believe in Mormonism anymore, but I didn't want to offend anyone and it seemed easier not to bring it up. Your way seems much more honest and courageous..."being an example of people they admire who found Truth that conflicted with Mormonism and chose Truth. Who courageously and kindly spoke their Truth with tolerance and love (something they won't find in Mormonism). Who chose not to be co-conspirators in the biggest religious con in American history." I think I owe it to my family to tell them the truth.

You're welcome, sexismyreligon (aka loveismyreligion). Being that kind of woman will do more for you inside than anybody's reaction or opinion.

It also makes you a hero instead of a fool in your children's eyes when they are older.


Anagrammy

PS. To some kids you are a hero immediately! Who likes 3 hours of church?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2011 01:40AM by anagrammy.

Just get released by claiming pressure of work and family -- or moving.. Go to the activities sometimes, keep in touch with friends by e-mail and you will soon learn how fast the freinds ditch you.

HOWEVER *** If you want to do the band aid rip off method,(really painful at first, but it goes away really fast)
E-mail - Greg Dodge with your resignation letter and post his reply on Facebook.. All hell will break out.

Either Method you feel like using to leave -- Good Luck

JB

You could move to a new house/apartment outside the ward and then stop going to church.

That seems to settle things faster.

You both sound like delightful people.

I was a convert too with no Mormon family. Your old friends will take you back. I like summer's suggestion of apologizing to them. True friends approach one another honestly like that.

It's hard facing the inevitable loss of church friends--many will simply find nothing in common to continue the friendship. Others will insist on saving you from your apostasy.

Sadly, losing those friends will play out no matter what approach you take because the church teaches implicitly that you can only have closeness and intimacy with people who believe the same things. That's why you had to give up your old friends when you joined. Church friends will leave you too because they will feel unfulfilled in a friendship that doesn't reinforce their religious beliefs. It's a sad aspect of cult life.

You'll have a richer life outside this mental prison.

Ease your way out and for whatever reason you can no longer do your callings. That would be the best thing to give up first. As to whether your friends will talk to you or not, just assume they won't. And don't feel bad. It is their loss and just means you have done the right thng. Their love was conditional upon you being as loyal to the "church" as they are. It is not really friendship. It is all fake. So make new friends.

I am glad you will not put your own kids through that fraud of Mormonism. You will soon have a free and rich life outside of the controlling cult. My daughter is a convert and I too hope one day she is going to give it all up and be free too. I fear for my grandson, age two. He is getting to the age where the brainwashing begins and it saddens me.

And yes, do attend another church where Jesus is the center of all things. I think making a transition like that is going to help you tremendously. YOU will feel at home even though all things are new. Once you decide on a church you are comfortable with, anything Mormon will be a distant memory. Glad your families are not entrenched in it. If they were/are Christian themselves they will be very happy you are removing yourselves from the LDS religion. Share the news.

I can promise you we are genuine - don't quite understand how we could have come across as anything but, and I'm sorry if any of our posts have made you think otherwise!

Thank you to everyone for all your responses, it really does help to know there are others who know what we are going through!

My husband is resigning tomorrow - or I should say he will be handing in his resignation letter to the bishop tomorrow (he has just made a separate thread about this). I have a few more loose ends to tie up, and then I will be following him in a little while.

We are moving in a few weeks - in the last stages of buying a house. It's still within the ward boundaries, but we have no intention of telling the church our new address. Not sure whether this is the best way to go, but it's what we feel most comfortable with at the moment.

With regards to losing friends etc - we've come to the realisation that it's just not avoidable, and as many of you say - it will hurt, but at the end of the day, how much of a "real" friend are they if they won't make the effort? We'll find people that love us for us.

The thought crossed my mind when I read the post by imwithonthewayout...it's only because we recently had a poster who fabricated a story and posted as several people from her family. I'm willing to accept that your story is genuine, onthewayout, and I wouldn't worry about it.

Oh - I understand why you might be wary then. It hadn't crossed my mind that people might do something like that - what on earth for?!

I'm sorry guys - it really is as innocent as both of us happening to appear on the board at the same time as we have both been lurking for a while and happen to be making our move now!