Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: marriedtoexmo ( )
Date: August 10, 2011 12:14PM

Does anyone have any legitimate church sources that talks about the Adam as God theory from BY? I told my exmo wife about it last night. She was TBM for 25 years and had never heard of it and was surprised to hear about it. But, I don't want her to think I just pulled this off of some 'anti-mormon' site.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Gorspel Dacktrin ( )
Date: August 10, 2011 12:22PM

Here's a link to a previous discussion that includes references.

http://rfmorg.wordpress.com/2008/08/28/mormon-god-confusion/

Excerpts:

There is no question in the historical record as to whether Brigham Young taught that Adam is the God of this world and is “the only GOD with whom WE have to do.”

Here is a direct quote from the verbatim text of a sermon delivered by Brigham Young (yes, in his capacity as President, Prophet, Seer and Revelator) at the General Conference of the Church held in April 1852:

“When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken-He is our FATHER andour GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later.”

Journal of Discourses 1:46

About the Journal of Discourses:

“The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every number (issue) as it comes forth.”

President George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Vol.8.

http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/

==========

“There are those who believe, or say they believe, that Adam is our father and our God, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship. The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures. Anyone who has read the Book of Moses and anyone who has received the temple endowment and yet believes the Adam-God theory does not deserve to be saved.” [[Logically, Bruce is talking about Brigham Young here. Brigham doesn't deserve to be saved.]]

Bruce R. McConkie, speech at Marriott Center (BYU), 1980

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: marriedtoexmo ( )
Date: August 10, 2011 12:24PM

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I especially like the part where McConkie subsequently shoots down Young's theory in 1980.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: weeder ( )
Date: August 10, 2011 12:25PM

Journal of Discourses, were much of what BY said about it, was just the General Conference reports of the time.

Reading many journals of members that lived during Brigham's reign I can tell you the Saints of that time REALLY believed it as doctrine.

A book "Women of Mormondom" co-authored by Eliza R. Snow goes a long way in praising and promoting the "doctrine" -- There have been some subtitle changes to the song "O My Father" written by her that clearly showed that belief in Adam God was the thing to do at the time. You can still buy a copy of this book today.

The doctrine was taught in the Temple Endowment for over 50 years!!!! (stopped in 1904). You may be interested that a man was excommunicated for his opposition to the teaching as it was taught in the temple (I think that was 1902 in St. George).

The initial endowment actually had four main characters instead of the 3 we have today:

Elohiem (gods plural)
Jehovah
JESUS
and Michael

Jehovah = Jesus only came about AFTER 1904 in the Church.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: my2cents ( )
Date: August 10, 2011 12:47PM

For more on Bruce R. McConkie and the Adam God doctrine, see this letter from him to Eugene England.

http://www.myplanet.net/mike/LDS/McConkie_England_letter.html

BRM says that Brigham taught false doctrine. I was always taught that God would remove the prophet before he could lead the church astray. Hmmmmmm....

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jim Huston ( )
Date: August 10, 2011 12:51PM

Adam is our Father
Joseph Smith, Jr., Messages of the First Presidency, v. 1, p. 113, July 1839. See also History of the Church, v. 3, pp. 386-387
“He [Adam] is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all tha have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family.”

Adam is our Father and our God
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 51
“Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the ancient of days! about whom holy men have written and spoken – He is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later!”

Brigham Young, Deseret News, v. 22, no. 308, June 8, 1873
“How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me – namely that Adam is our father and God – I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it. Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him, and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first woman upon the earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth. I have been found fault with by the ministers of religion because I have said that they were ignorant. But I could not find any man on the earth who cold tell me this, although it is one of the simplest things in the world, until I met and talked with Joseph Smith.”

Lee Robinson, Journal of Joseph Lee Robinson, October 6, 1854
"Attended conference, a very interesting conference, for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus, that Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized and that Adam and Eve were the natural father and mother of every spirit that comes to this planet, or that receives tabernacles on this planet, consequently we are brother and sisters, and that Adam was God, our Eternal Father. This as Brother Heber remarked, was letting the cat out of the bag, and it came to pass, I believed every word, for I remembered saying to the Brethren at a meeting of High Priests in Nauvoo, while I was speaking to them under the influence of the Spirit, I remarked thus, that our Father Adam had many wives, and that Eve was only one of them, and that she was our mother, and that she was the mother of the inhabitants of this earth, and I believe that also, but behold ye there were some that did not believe these sayings of the Prophet Brigham, even our Beloved Brother Orson Pratt told me he did not believe it. He said he could prove by the scriptures it was not correct. I felt very sorry to hear Professor Orson Pratt say that. I feared least he should apostatize, but I prayed for him that he might endure unto the end, for I knew verily it was possible that great men might fall. I remembered Apostle John E. Page. I saw him take from his pocket a plug of tobacco and bite a mouthful and put it back. It surprised me. I said old chap you will apostatize, but still I really hoped he would not, but he is gone, and I am very sorry for the poor man."

Samuel W. Richards, , v. 15, p. 801;
"ADAM, THE FATHER AND GOD OF THE HUMAN FAMILY
"The above sentiment appeared in Star No. 48, a little to the surprise of some of its readers; and while the sentiment may have appeared blasphemous to the ignorant, it has no doubt given rise to some serious reflections with the more candid and comprehensive mind. A few reasonable and scriptural ideas upon this subject may be profitable at the present time.
"Then Adam is really God! And why not? If there are Lords many and Gods many, as the scriptures inform us, why not our Father Adam be one of them?"

Adam and Eve Parents of our Bodies and Spirits
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, pp. 285, 290
“Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon earth, When you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobies from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle words devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell.... Adam and Eve are the parents of all pertaining to the flesh, and I would not say that they are not also the parents of our spirits.”

Our God, Father Adam
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 331
“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true.”

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 50
“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bear your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.”

Adam Father of Our Spirits
Brigham Young, Journal History, p. 131, December 11, 1869
“Some may think what I have said concerning Adam strange, but the period will come when the people will be willing to adopt Joseph Smith as their Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and God! but not the Father of their spirits, for that was our Father Adam.”

Jesus Begotten by Adam
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 51
“Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.”

Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 238
“... I believe the Father came down from heaven, as the Apostles said he did, and begat the Saviour of the world; for he is the only-begotten of the Father, which could not be if the Father did not actually beget him in person.... I believe the Father came down in His tabernacle and begat Jesus Christ.”

Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Heber C. Kimball, v. 20, p. 17; see also Deseret News, March 11, 1857
“The Lord told me that Jesus Christ was the son of Adam.”

Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, April 9, 1852
“Who begat the Son of God? Infidels say that Jesus was a bastard, but let me tell you the truth concerning that matter. Our Father begat all the spirits that were, before any tabernacles were made. When our Father came into the garden, He came with His celestial body and brought one of His wives with Him and ate of the fruit of the garden until He could beget a tabernacle, and Adam is Michael or God and all the God that we have anything to do with. They eat of this fruit and formed the first tabernacle that was formed. And when the Virgin Mary was begotten with child, it was by the Father and in no other way, in no other way, only as we were begotten. I will tell you the truth as it is in God. The world don't know that Jesus Christ our elder brother was begotten by our Father in Heaven. Handle it as you please, it will either seal the damnation or salvation of man. He was begotten by the Father and not by the Holy Ghost.”

God Becomes Adam
Brigham Young, as quoted in the Wilford Woodruff's Journal, April 9, 1852
“Our Father begot all the spirits that were before any tabernacle was made. When our Father came into the Garden He came with his Celestial body and brought one of his wives with him and ate of the fruit of the Garden until He could beget a Tabernacle. And Adam is Michael God and all the God that we have anything to do with. They ate of this fruit and formed the first Tabernacle that was formed. And when the Virgin Mary was begotten with Child it was by the Father and in no other way only as we were begotten. I will tell you the truth as it is in God. The world don’t know that Jesus Christ our Elder Brother was begotten by our Father in Heaven. Handle it was you please, it will either seal the damnation or salvation of man. He was begotten by the Father and not by the Holy Ghost.”

God was the First Man
Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 4, p. 1
“I have learned by experience that there is but one God that pertains to this people, and He is the God that pertains to this earth – the first man. That first man sent his own Son to redeem the world, to redeem his brethren; his life was taken, his blood shed, that our sins might be remitted.”

The God and Father of Jesus Christ was Adam
Heber C. Kimball, as quoted by Wilford Woodruff, in the Journal of Wilford Woodruff, April 10, 1852
"Some have said that I was very presumptuous to say that Brother Brigham was my God and Savior. Brother Joseph was his God. The one that gave Joseph the keys of the Kingdom was his God, which was Peter. Jesus Christ was his God and the God and Father of Jesus Christ was Adam."

Abraham H. Cannon relating Apostle George Q. Cannon’s sentiments, in Journal of Abraham H. Cannon, June 23, 1889, BYU Library Special Collections
“He [George Q. Cannon] believes that Jesus Christ is Jehovah, and that Adam is His father and our God: that under certain unknown conditions the benefits of the Savior’s atonement extend to our entire solar system.... He asked me what I understood concerning Mary conceiving the Savior; and as I found no answer, he asked what was to prevent Father Adam from visiting and overshadowing the mother of Jesus. Then I said: ‘he must have been a resurrected Being.’ ‘Yes,’ he said, ‘and though Christ is said to have been the first fruits of them that slept, yet the Savior said he did nothing but what He had seen His Father do, for He had power to lay down his life and take it up again. Adam, though made of dust, was made, as President Young said, of the dust of another planet than this.’ I was very much instructed by the conversation and this days services.”

God fell to become Adam
Orson Pratt "Minutes of the Meeting of the Council of the Twelve in Historian’s Upper Room," April 5, 1860, 10 a.m
“I have heard brother Brigham say that Adam is the Father of our spirits, and he came here with his resurrected body, to fall for his own children; and I said to him, it leads to an endless number of falls, which leads to sorrow and death: that is revolting to my feelings, even if it were not sustained by revelation.”

Samuel H. Rodgers, Journal of Samuel H. Rodgers, v. 1, p. 179; BYU Special Collections;
"Conference commenced on the 6 and continued until the 11, it was heled in the new tabernacle, adjourned until the 6 of next October We had the best Conference that I ever attended during the time of the Conference President Brigham Young said that our spirits ware begotten before that Adam came to the Earth and that Adam helped to make the Earth, that he had a Celestial boddy when he came to the Earth and that he brought his wife or one of his wives with him, and that Eave was allso a Celestial being, that they eat of the fruit of the ground until they begat children from the Earth, he said that Adam was the onley God that we would have, and that Christ was not begotten of the Holy Gost, but of the Father Adam, that Christ, was our elder brother. The argument that he used to shoe that Christ was not begotten by the holy gost, was a caution to the Elders that when they should go to preach the Gospel, to be careful how they laid their hands on the sisters, for the reseption of the holy Gost, lest the holy Gost should get them with Child and that it would be laid to them."

God Was Father Adam
Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, Sept. 4, 1860
“Brother Cannon said there was a learned Doctor that wanted to be baptized.... He [the doctor] is satisfied that the doctrine of the plurality of God and that Adam is our Father is a true doctrine revealed from God to Joseph and Brigham. For this same doctrine is taught in some of the old Jewish records which have never been in print and I know Joseph Smith nor Brigham Young have had access to, and the Lord has revealed this doctrine unto them or they could not have taught it. President Young said if all that God had revealed was in fine print it would more than fill this room but very little is written or printed which the Lord has revealed.”

Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, p. 196
"When Brigham Young proclaimed to the nations that Adam was our Father and God, and Eve, his partner, the Mother of a world-both in a mortal and celestial sense-he made the most important revelation ever oracled to the race since the days of Adam himself. This grand patriarchal revelation is the very key-stone of the 'New Creation' of the heavens and the earth. It gives new meaning to the whole system of theology-"

George G. Bywater, “Minutes of the School of Prophets,” pp. 37-42, June 8, 1868
“I am not disposed to question the discrepancies on the question of doctrine; if we live faithful all will become clear to us. We cannot become united only as we get united in understanding. When I first heard the doctrine of Adam being our Father and God, I was favorably impressed – enjoyed, and hailed it as a new revelation. It appeared reasonable to me, as the Father of our spirits that he should introduce us here. And what we do not see is only evidence that we have not the light necessary.”

God was Michael was Adam
Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, December 16, 1867
“At meeting of school of the prophets, President Young said Adam was Michael the Archangel and he was the father of Jesus Christ and was our God, and Joseph taught this principle.”

Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, January 24, 1868
“I wish to refer to the first doctrine preached that Adam was our Father and God. In the revelation called the Olive Leaf it says that the Devil gathered together the hosts of Hell, and Michael the Archangel gathered together the hosts of Heaven and he overcame the Devil and his angels, and this is the battle of the great God. Who is this Michael the Archangel? It is Adam who was Michael in the creation of the world....”

Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, Feb. 19, 1854
“He [Brigham Young] said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ – Our God was no more or less than ADAM, Michael the Archangel.”

Wilford Woodruff, “Minutes of the School of Prophets,” Jan. 24, 1868
“... I feel thankful for the privilege of speaking a few words to this school. I wish to refer to the first doctrine preached that Adam was our Father and God in the revelation called the olive leaf it says that ‘the devil gathered together the hosts of hell and Michael the ark angel gathered together the hosts of heaven and he overcame the devil and his angel and this is the battle of the great God’ who is this Michael the archangel it is Adam who was Michael in the creation of the world...”

Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, p. 179
“Adam is our Father and God. He is the God of the earth."
"Adam is the great Archangel of this creation. He is Michael. He is the Ancient of Days. He is the father of our elder brother, Jesus Christ--the father of him who shall also come as Messiah to reign. He is the father of the spirits as well as the tabernacles of the sons and daughters of man-Adam!"
"Michael is one of the grand mystical names in the works of creations; redemptions and resurrections."
"Michael was a celestial, resurrected being, of another world."
“‘In the beginning,' the Gods created the heavens and the earths. In their councils they said, ‘Let us make man in our own image.' So, in the likeness of the Fathers, and the Mothers--the Gods--created they man-male and female. When this earth was prepared for mankind, Michael, as Adam, came down. He brought with him one of his wives, and he called her name Eve."
"Adam and Eve are the names of the fathers and mothers of worlds."

Adam Father of our Spirits
Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, December 11, 1869
“The following is a synopsis of President Young's remarks: Some have thought it strange what I have said concerning Adam, but the period will come when this people of [the] faithful will be willing to adopt Joseph Smith as their Prophet, Seer, Revelator and God, but not the father of their spirits for that was our Father Adam.”

Adam Father in Heaven
Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, February 16, 1847
"I have a request to make of my family & that is that they, especially old people omit calling me their Father. Call me Brother Brigham--I shall feel better when you do for I do not consider that I am worthy of that appellation-- Father in the Priesthood implies the great head, the term would be proper to Father Adam. Jesus had reference to the same thing when he told his disciples not to call any man Father on earth for their Father was in heaven."

Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, p. 19
"Brightest among these spirits, and nearest in the circle to our Father and Mother in heaven (the Father being Adam), were Seth, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus Christ-
"These are the sons and daughters of Adam-the Ancient of Days-the Father and God of the whole human family. These are the sons and daughters of Michael, who is Adam, the father of the spirits of all our race. These are the sons and daughters of Eve, the Mother of a world."

Adam was a resurrected being
Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, p. 180
"The grand patriarchal economy, with Adam, as a resurrected being, who brought his wife Eve from another world has been very finely elaborated by Brigham from the patriarchal genesis which Joseph conceived."

Joseph E. Taylor, Collected Discourses, v. 1, June 2, 1888
“I think these two quotations from such a reliable authority fully solve the question as to the relationship existing between Father Adam and the Savior of the world, and prove beyond question the power that Adam possessed in regard to taking his body again after laying it down--which power he never could have attained unless he had received first a resurrection from the grave to a condition of immortality. We further say that this power was not forfeited when as a celestial being he voluntarily partook of the forbidden fruit, and thereby rendered his body mortal in order that he might become the father of mortal tabernacles, as he was already the father of immortal spirits--thus giving opportunity to the offspring of his own begetting to pass through the ordeals necessary to prepare them for a resurrection from the dead, a celestial glory.
“All that Father Adam did upon this earth, from the time that he took up his abode in the Garden of Eden, was done for his posterity's sake and the success of his former mission as the savior of a world, and afterwards, or now, as the father of a world only added to the glory which he already possessed. If, as the savior of a world, he had the power to lay down his life and take it up again, therefore, as the father of a world which is altogether an advanced condition, we necessarily conclude that the grave was powerless to hold him after that mission was completed...”

Hosea Stout, Hosea Stout Journal, v. 2, p. 436, April 9, 1852
“Friday 9th April 1852. Stormy morning. Attended conference. House much crowded, did not stay in the house long. Afternoon was not in because of the crowd. Another meeting this evening. President Brigham Young taught that Adam was the father of Jesus and the only God to us. That he came to this world in a resurrected body and etc. more hereafter.”

The world would not accept Adam as God
John A. Tvedtnes, Journal of John A. Tvedtnes, Friday, June 30, 1961
“President Joseph Fielding Smith said: The Lord did not give us the complete story of the creation of Adam and Eve because He knew the world would not accept it.”

Adam God taught in Temple
Patriarch J. Arthur Horne, The Elder’s Journal, v. 1, by C. Jess Groesbeck, p. 291;
“Brother Horne and I chatted again tonight about the Gospel and the Adam-God Doctrine, as we have done many times before. Brother Horne, who grew up in Salt Lake City and was the son of Richard Horne and grandson of Joseph Horne said, in reference to the Adam-God Doctrine, that when he first went through the Temple for his Endowment in 1902 before going on his mission he was surprised to hear the teachings during the Temple ceremony in the sermon before the veil, that ‘Adam was our God’ and that ‘he came here with Eve, one of his wives.’ Also it was taught that ‘Eve bore our spirits’ (i.e. the spirits of all men). He asked his father about it but he declined to give any opinion about it. After Brother Horne returned from his mission a few years later, in 1905, he noted these teachings had been removed from the Temple ceremony. He feels that they were left over from Brigham Young’s influence, but that the himself couldn’t believe such doctrine. He thinks perhaps Brigham just got off in his speculation.”

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: August 10, 2011 01:04PM

Even Gordon B. Hinckley admitted that BY taught it. See the interview in the New Yorker, Jan. 21, 2002, page 44:
http://is.gd/CqTeLM

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: alan ( )
Date: August 10, 2011 01:15PM

Tons of other quotes on adam-god:
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/adamgod.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: August 10, 2011 03:04PM

Is this not an "anti-Mormon" site?

Just teasing, but I would go to this "anti-Mormon" site copy n paste the page into a Word document. Delete the comments made by Jerald and Sandra Tanner and taddah you have just LDS quotes and citations about Adam being our God.


http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech8.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
       **        **  ********   ********        ** 
       **        **  **     **     **           ** 
       **        **  **     **     **           ** 
       **        **  ********      **           ** 
 **    **  **    **  **            **     **    ** 
 **    **  **    **  **            **     **    ** 
  ******    ******   **            **      ******