I became a Mormon approximently a year ago and have done everything that has to do with the Mo religion including Temple. Recently I have decided that this is not what I want in my life. That offcourse has raised many problems since my wife was born Mo and her parents are EXTREME Mo with her dad being a bishop and her mom being crazy. When I decided not to be Mo they all threatned me and said the wrath of god would come upon me. Her parents all the way to the bishop of my ward. That offcourse ticked me off and I pretty much told them thats stupid BS. So now they say I have all kinds of mental disabilities bi polar, anxiety etc. which I don't(side note her mom has depression) also saying I am abusive. Anyways I am willing to work it out with my wife, so I can keep my daughter. However, her mom is in the middle of it and wont stay out of our marriage. Her mom has successfully broke up are marriage and now wont let me see the kids. What do I do? I am willing to tell my story for a book the media or whatver. I am 21 and was manipulated into the church and now that I am out they are completly destroying my life.

1. document everything carefully
2. get a lawyer and do it NOW

You're going to need the help of a lawyer in order to protect your right to see your kids and to fulfill your role as a parent. You'd better believe that your wife will have one! You get one as well. See if your parents can help you out with money for a lawyer if need be. Their right to see their grandchildren is at stake as well.

Don't sign anything that she hands you without a lawyer looking at it. At a minimum, you will want joint custody and a certain amount of time for visitation (i.e. every other weekend and so many weeks in the summer.)

Document (write down, including date and time) every instance where your wife or her family makes unjust accusations about your mental health, fitness as a father, etc. Request to visit with your children at regular intervals and document every time you are refused.

Good luck, and let us know how things proceed.

tyler90az, TAKE this advice from Heresy and Summer. They are right on. I have seen good documentation totally turn a case in favor of a father twice. Do not let anyone know you are doing the documentation until you hand it to a lawyer or judge for the first time. The surprise factor worked wonders in the cases I saw. Do whatever it takes to get a lawyer.

I agree wholheartedly but would add. Don't go into verbal dialogue. Get it all down on e mails and letters. That way nobody can dispute what they did or didn't say at a later date.

tyler90az Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> her parents are EXTREME Mo with
> her dad being a bishop and her mom being crazy.

Although your description made me laugh out loud . . . I realize her parents are a deadly combination when it comes to controlling your wife and "protecting" your baby girl.

You do have rights. This is America. You don't need to be Mormon to be a good father. But you do need the advice of an attorney when going through a separation/divorce.

Good luck.

;o)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2011 06:48PM by shannon.

Telling your story for a book or the media isn't going to help one bit. If anything, it will just provide more ammunition for your wife's family to isolate you from your family.

You need a competent, experienced, NON-LDS lawyer who is familiar with LDS tactics. This won't be cheap. Commit everything you own, live in a refrigerator carton, get a second or third job. The whole process is going to be long, painful, and MESSY.

Make SURE you send regular amounts of money, however small, to your wife for the support of your children. IGNORE her mother's proclamation that they don't want a single thing from you, they aren't asking for child support. Again, this will be used against you. Keep careful, detailed records of what money you send, and show proof of delivery and that the checks were cashed. Even if everything blows up in your face and you manage to get screwed over by family court, at least you'll have proof to show your kids when they show up on your doorstep sixteen years from now and say, "Why did you abandon me?"

Good luck.

~VOW

unless the court has told you to do so. You need to get a lawyer that deals with father parental rights and let him take over. You have a right to see your kids unless a court has said otherwise.

See a lawyer tomorrow or go to Legal Aid.

It's a shame that a 21 yer old man is already stuck in a marriage and with a kid.


Get the hell out of the marriage and out of the Mormon cult.

But do insist on your legal right to see your kid, though.

You don't need a court order to provide for your children. It's a pity that in our society, parents are encouraged to step away from their responsibilities unless forced by a court.

If you have children, you are legally and morally obligated to provide for their needs. If Mommy and Daddy don't get along, a child still requires food, shelter, and clothing.

Parents like to use money as a weapon, and the kids end up suffering for it. Pay the support, whether or not you've been ordered. But keep diligent, coherent, complete records of every dime paid, when it was paid, how it was paid.

Besides, that's just a sensible CYA response. Child support orders can be backdated, and many noncustodial parents are saddled with huge debts that follow them around for decades.

Even if the custodial parent flagrantly denies visitation, keep paying the support. Do NOT punish the child for your inability to get along.

~VOW

This sounds like a pretty typical divorce. They all stink, but half of married people will get at least one. It would not make any diff' if you converted to any church and then decided it was bunk. I agree that Mormon's are their own special kind of bat-shit crazy. Your story is typical, not exceptional.

I strongly suggest you get a lawyer, not an agent. You have rights and responsibilities as a parent. It will help if you find out what those are in the area you reside.

Good luck. Divorce is never a great time in one's life experience.

Show up to see the child, over and over and over and have it documented.Take someone with you.

Send $$$ for the child's care, at least 15% of your income on a weekly basis, (keep all cashed checks), until a court order is established by the court. Most states most likely will demand mediation and joint custody.

You can represent yourself in custody battles,but it helps to have an attorney. Just remember that the attorneys continue to make money as long as it's drug out.


The Gma has no legal rights in almost all states. She is out of order and can be in a lot of trouble if she keeps you from access to your child.

Get busy looking up the laws concerning divorce and child custody in your state and be well informed. That's the best way to work with an attorney.

I agree. Get a lawyer. Some letters sent to the appropriate individuals will get some of this nonsense settled. Yes, document phone calls, visits, etc. Grandma thinks she can meddle in, but this is YOUR child and she has no rights.

I can relate you to you being pressured into Mormonism as my daughter was too. Unlike you she has not come to her senses yet. I do not like the thought that you may divorce over a church but if you must, you must. Stand your ground. YOU have beliefs and feelings just as valid as your wife. Those Mormons are vicious. YOU remain in control and be firm....I wish you the best. And I am so glad you were able to figure this out soon after converting. Seriously, get an attorney now.

My advice is different.

Unless your wife is a documented crack whore who has shot someone before and you have video of her beating the crap out of the child and shooting heroine in front of the child or giving the child drugs, she is going to get custody.
The assassination of your character has already begun.
Once she gets custody of the child she will have
direct & virtually exclusive parental communication to the child, which means exclusive direct control on forming this child's attitudes & opinions about everything.
Painting you as the worst human being who was ever born is now your former mate's Number one priority, and she will have the exclusive use of the effective platform to promote her new agenda which is to villify you beyond any redemption & destroy you.

Remember, she & her advocates of the *justice system* would just execute you except for one thing: dead men cant pay child support.

Even If you pay every dollar of required child support & more, and you are the most perfect divorced parent that could ever be conceived, you will still be treated like CRAP & as if you have never done anything right.

Even if God was willing to appear to this child on a regular basis to tell them the truth, you will not be able to counter the raging character assassination war that the Mother/automatic custodial parent and her family is going to wage against you.

After being devastated financially, threatened in every way imaginable, told that you are not fit to live let alone be a parent, having your guts ripped out emotionally, probably being set up & arrested, on the rare occassion that you do actually get a visit it will only serve to prove to this small developing mind that the big bad wolf/worst person in the world really actually does live, and it will probably be the basis for allegations/charges of sexual molestation/abuse against you.

Simply put, its just not worth it to try to be a divorced father. Save yourself & just give up now on being a parent to this child, because you are not going to be allowed to be a father anyway (youll see!) & you matter as a person too just as much as she does. she's a lost cause, save yourself.


you have the legal right to legally forfeit parental rights,
something the vipers of the system would never tell you.
this means you wont get to see your child, but guess what
you are not going to get to see her anyway, and if you do
you will only be stepping in to unwittingly play a role automatically assigned to you regardless of any reality of the most heinous villain ever. Forfeiting parental rights will save you from paying child support/ paying for your own villifaction. Frankly you will be lucky if they allow you dropping parently rights, but asking puts them on the defensive, because the system gets to see that they dont have another patsy / SUCKER who is going to pay to be
kicked around like a soccer ball while trying to be a father.

Dont give any money to an attorney for anything! The ONLY thing attnys want to do is capitalize on your misfortune. IE STEAL FROM YOU since they can while you are in this vulnerable state.
The only thing an attorney is going to do is ROB you.

I know this sounds harsh but you will be so much better off to realize that you have made a irreparable mistake, not by your fault but from a setup you were blindsided by. Let this child go to save yourself, because they are not going to let you have her in any meaningful way anyway. seeing a child on visitation is like ripping open a wound over & over again every couple of weeks, it never heals & just causes agony. who needs or wants that! someday this child would grow up & move away to have a life of its own anyway. just pretend like its already happened.
your life will be so much more serene without contending with the ongoing threats and belittlement of your ex wife that will just end up being a huge scar clear accross your life. You will just end up constantly jumping through an endless exhausting series of hoops posed as some form of parethood if they have their way. you cant be a parent when you are a two legged train wreck.these are the impossible conditions that modern society has imposed. parenthood is completely over rated anyway.

most of all just forget all the crap about you having any rights because this america, thats absolute CRAP.
as a divorced father you have the *right* to be ruined, to be broke, and to suffer without limitation or bounds and to go to prison for it.
fatherhood for divorced men has been practically outlawed, its time more men let the system suffer with its own insanely flawed dictates instead of running themselves into the ground
trying to meet everyone else impossible dictates.

Wow- your advice is to give up on the child. And who are you to say that giving up on a chld is within the character of this man? I can not even believe your post. Loving parents don't give up on their child due to ANY type of crap given to them by anybody.

id consider those parents who put their children up for adoption because they Know they wont be able to provide for them probably some of the most loving parents. knowing you wont be able to see your child grow up, doing it so they could have a better life. id liketo think that i could do that,but i really dont thimk im that selfless.

Did I miss something? Who says he's not able to provide for his kid?

MAYBE...due to his issues! (we all have them).... so anonanon...tell us how you really feel! i wouldnt be as cynical....but then again i aint never been married!! good luck with your divorce and impending child battle!

WELL I HAVE TO SAY ANONANON HAS EXPRESSED HOW HE FEELS.... AND IT DONT SMELL SO GOOD...JUST MY OPINION!!
yeah just do like he says....discard the child!! OY VAY!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2011 10:36AM by bignevermo.

redacted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2011 10:39AM by bignevermo.

Your daughter will benefit from every moment you spend in her life. Sadly, anonanon appears to be very angry and bitter about his own experience and committing the "I am the world" logical fallacy. The truth is that every situation is different. The advice to get a lawyer and document everything is spot on. As well as the advice to start paying support now. Live your life with dignity and respect -- even if every terrible thing that anonanon said happens, you will be able to hold your head up and know that you did everything in your power to provide for and love your daughter.

Good luck, your daughter is lucky to have a father who would fight for her.

yah, ppl are all full of big talk (even Mormon style character assassination for those that they dont like or agree with, even on this board) but the fact is that the system loves former/ divorced fathers who are willing to try to fight for their kids because they can kick them down at every turn, every time they try to take a stand, & suck them dry financially, even put them jail & prison for the most contrived incidents, give them criminal records, destroy their employability, ruin them, and laugh while the wannabe father runs himself to death on the treadmill of impossible system demands, all while the ppl who run the system get their control freak hard on and pat themselves on the back about what a great job they do saving the children.

yah, go ahead & tell yourself & others all about how you would do so much better. stay convinced that you'd pay full child support right on time and support yourself under the staggering burdens the system will saddle you with, because you'd really try & you really care unlike those losers who fail at the task. Keep on knowing you are so much better than those other ppl who fail in the attempt.

the fact is, even in the abyss of Mormonism -that can not be eliminated from this deal, this kid will be better off left to her stupid selfish Hell raising mom & herself with out the ongoing Hellish tension caused by some disruptive stupid intermittent visits that are supposed to substitute for having male parenting & give the mother hen an ongoing excuse to play the mommy card with all its BS & stayed all riled up about things which just creates tension that just comes back on the child.

I have faced the fact, a male parent just does not mean that much in today's society, ( why cant you? ) I mean besides just being a whipping boy for the system and that other deal, you know, PAYING FOR EVERYTHING. I have given up, refused to play the macho male role that so many hate, & I end up getting trashed for being on the other side of the fence too, anyway. You hate me for trying to let you have your way. I see I can never win. You need to face the fact that men are obsolete in today's society. I did!

Frankly, I cant wait until all the rotten filthy men are all gone and out of the way. I am just trying to speed up the process by bowing out NOW, as soon as possible. Dont expect me to take any manly action! I cant wait to see how smoothly things go when the planet is run entirely by females including the ones who have ovaries in their scrotums, look somewhat like men, and have been pretending to be men for so long. I know you will all do so much better just as you know you will too.

I will never stop fighting for my daughter.......ever....

tyler90az Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will never stop fighting for my
> daughter.......ever....

thats exactly the kind of sentiment that the attorneys are counting on so they can suck you dry financially.
and despite what any judge says about their concern for visitation, the importance of post marriage parenting & the critical nature of you maintaining contact with your child, they'd just as soon that all of you were dead just to lighten their case load. a chicken or a cat means more to them than you.


the best thing you can do is save yourself, as much as possible. dont put anything emotionally or financially into this hopelessly flawed former marriage & its offspring.
your genes will never overcome the anti you background buzz
that the child will constantly be exposed to by your former spouse as the custodial parent.


if you manage to save enough of yourself to amount to anything
you might have the chance later on to find a legitimately loving, nurturing,logical, intelligent, rational, religion despising women, and do some positive parenting with some children that havent been hopelessly mentally poisoned.

where you are at now is an impossible lose lose ...lose lose lose situation. what you are trying to do now is save a house that is burning down by spitting on it. let the child have its mormon life that it was bred into, it crawled out of a Mormon womb. Let you have your own life, if you can escape with it at this point.

Good for you, Tyler. Please don't ever stop fighting for your kids.

The advice you got about documenting everything and being the best father you can be in spite of the situation is correct. Anonanon's bitterness is, ultimately, of his own choosing and a self-fulfilling path of anger and blaming everyone but himself for his own actions.

Remember - your relationship with your kids is a life-long thing. Even if you wind up not having custody, being a loving parent is important, and it's what your kids will remember once they're grown.

And John Paul's suggestions on how to act during your interactions with your ex-wife, legal team, etc. are so important. Treat it as a business transaction as best you can, and keep your cool.

There are two mental health professionals I know of that might be willing to provide affidavits stating that Mormonism is cultic, i.e., it is detrimental to the normal/healthy psychological development of children.

1. Steven Hassan, who presented at an ex-Mormon conference a couple of years ago (ref. www.freedomofmind.com).

2. Dr. Mark Malan, who presented at an ex-Mo conf. a few years ago (ref. www.relationshiphealth.org).

Info. about how cultic Mormonism psychologically affects people is online at http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

Good luck!

@tyler90az, bro..i know exactly what you are going through.
once i told my wife that mormonism didn't make sense, hell broke lose.

3 years later, she decided she wanted a divorce. she preferred the church over me.

a word of advice:
1 be polite. be business-like when dealing with your exwife. any other approach she'll twist it and make it look like an attack. i know how hard it is because all you want is to tell her to go and fuck herself --but she'll use it against you. trust me.

2. try to work it out. plan visits, etc. be persistent.

3. get a lawyer even if 1 and 2 above smooth things out. plan for the worst. file for divorce. not sure how the laws apply to your state.

4. keep the composure. be cool, be calm in front of her and everybody else from her family. then go home and cry all you want bro.

i really feel for you. been there, done that. keep us posted. we can help.

So, they just up and separated your kids from you? Do this, and I kid you not:

Call the police and say your wife absconded with your kids and you're worried they're being harmed.

THEN, go get the lawyer.

THEN, stop giving anyone any money and move all your accounts to another bank.

Others will poo-poo my advice, but that's what I did (in round terms) and everyone suddenly woke up to smell the coffee.

Ron

nothing like a visit from the local constable to wake everyone up! if thats what you did Ron, it looks like it worked... you and your kids look real happy together!
good advice seems to me!

It's just a shame what they are doing. Maybe it is just because it is a small branch Salome/Wenden AZ branch pres and wife?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2011 11:58AM by tyler90az.

While I wish tyler90az the best of luck in his struggle, that he win in the end, I wouldn't totally discard anonanon's cautionary tale. Serves as a good warning/wake up call on what _could_ turn out to be the battle of your life.

Circumstances vary that is certain and only tyler can tell if he has what it takes to see this through and win custody or partial custody of his daughter. But remember the legal system can be stacked against the male parent's efforts. Just keep that in mind.

Now they took my car! Glad I am seeing the Mormons true colors....

If the title is in your name, and there is no court order stating otherwise, it's yours. Take it back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2011 11:40PM by summer.