I'm a nevermo, but I heard that pretty much all piercings, (except one on each ear for girls) tattoos, and excessive facial hair on men were huge no-no's for Mormons, no questions about it.

But, the other day, I was hanging around with some of my friends that happened to be Mormon at an event in town. And the Dad of one of those friends saw a woman with a huge tattoo and remarked embarrassingly loudly, "You know why you ladies should never get tattoos? Because you're already perfect! Why would you get one of those things? It's fine if a guy gets one tattoo up on his arm, just one, but ladies, you don't need one of those!"

It struck me as really strange and sexist. But I just laughed at what he said and disguised my laughing at him by politely saying, "Yeah, I'm never getting one of those things." I'm not into that look anyway, but I still didn't like what he said. I mean, does he think that guys aren't perfect and are therefore "allowed" to "muck up their looks?" Or does he feel that women shouldn't "lower themselves to the standards of men," when he really feels that women just shouldn't look a certain way and he's giving weird excuses for his sexist beliefs? I just don't get it.

Has anyone else ever heard any attitudes like this? Or is his opinion strange even amongst TBMs?

I've noticed that too. In the LDS church the women are expected to look wholesome and lovely every second of the day. Half succeed with the aid of a well-paid husband and a Xanax prescription, but the other half just look run-down and exhausted.

Men on the other hand are allowed to look like crap at any point. I don't know how many beautiful women I saw married to absolute goons in the LDS church. I know it's mean to make fun of someone's appearance, but I can't count how many balding, overweight and poorly dressed men I heard laughing it up about how they won't allow their hot wives to "let themselves go". It always pissed me off.

It's like you said, women aren't allowed to "muck up their appearance" but guys get away with it. The tattoo thing is just another example. The Male converts I knew don't usually get more than a few glances for having pre-Mormon tats. Women converts on the other hand hear about how they need to ask for forgiveness for "desecrating their bodies" and all that.

I am old enough to remember when the only women with tattoos were biker chicks, but many "respectable" men got them in the Service, so yeah, there was a different attitude about men and women with tattoos everywhere, not just among Mormons.

Now it is so common for both sexes it does not mean anything about the person. I think tattoos are gross so I don't have any, but consider it a personal choice and not something an old foggy like me should go after any young people about.

I find it hysterical that Mormons forbid facial hair for men. They would have had to kick out Brigham and all his pals for that one. It is all about control.

When I was growing up in the 60's and 70's, the only women with tattoos would have been in a circus side show. Tattoos were really looked down-upon and not considered to be very classy. If a guy went into military service and chose to get *one* on his bicep or forearm, then those tattoos were mildly tolerated, but still considered somewhat daring.

Body piercings were frowned upon as well. I remember when I told my mom that I wanted to get my ears pierced (just one in each ear, you didn't get more than that back in the day!) she was really unhappy about it. She had worn clip earrings for all of her life.

So the dad that made those remarks just has some old-fashioned attitudes. I'm still not crazy about tattoos and most body-piercings, and I think that you'd find that attidude is not uncommon among older people. Each to his own, though.

As for the facial hair/white shirt mentality, that strikes me as being a conservative corporate look. Back in the 70's if a guy worked for IBM (the early computer behemoth, sort of the Microsoft of its day) then he had to be clean-shaven and wear a crisp white shirt. Most businessmen dressed conservatively back then, but IBM employees took it to an extreme. It was their corporate culture. The LDS church is a corporation as well, and its run with a corporate mentality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2011 08:13AM by summer.

I'm 18, and most of my friends seem to like tattoos. Even though I'm pretty liberal, I prefer to dress modestly and I'm not really into that look, either. It's not about religion for me. It's just about appearing classy. (But I don't have a problem with people that decide to wear them. I just don't think tattoos look very good on most people. And it gets into your bloodstream and all that.)

I understand about older people having different views. My Mom grew up in the 70's, and she didn't get her ears pierced until she was 16. If this man had said this remark about both genders not needing any tattoos, I wouldn't have found it especially offensive.(But it was still within earshot of a person with a tattoo, so I thought it was pretty rude to do.) But it was obviously a remark against women. A lot of my male Mormon friends seem to see women as moral people that should keep the men "in line." It seems strange to me that men are able to hold high positions in this church, and are still able to do whatever they want with themselves while the women have to uphold moral standards while having no true official position of power within the church . . . is realizing this a part of why some women leave Mormonism?

smile11 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...is realizing this a part of why some women leave Mormonism?

I'm sure it must be. It was a big part of why I left Catholocism at a young age. I was indoctrinating myself with femnist literature at the time. I had little patience with a church in which women are not allowed to hold the priesthood or other positions of power equally with men.

The official Catholic attitude towards artificial birth control was also a sore spot for me. To be fair, most Catholics ignore it, but it still smacks of the male power structure telling women what we can or cannot do with our bodies. How nice for them!

especially when you consider that the mindset of the morg hierarchy is entrenched in the 1950's.

So, to them, tattoos ARE disgusting, along with piercings, odd coloured hair, and any other form of self modification that shows individuality and the ability to think for ones self.

It doesn't cover boob implants however, as females are there to be seen and not heard, and the better looking the female, the bigger his ego.

Let's all show our individuality by getting a tattoo like a gazillion other people.

Or have a blank canvas, like a gazillion other people? Your post makes no sense.

Didn't you whine about how you were going to start a thread about how much you hate tattoos few months back, after you got schooled !?

Looks like a pretty narrow minded view about tats.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2011 12:11PM by AtheistMarine.

It's a stupid prejudice, but it's a fact of life, unfortunately.

Don't like tattoos? DON'T get one then! But don't think you can comment and be an asshole without a very strong response.

I am disgusted with tanning, obsessive body building, gross cosmetic surgery, bras worn with halter tops, socks with sandals, but you don't see me whining about it everytime someone makes a comment, do you?

"Don't like tattoos? DON'T get one then! But don't think you can comment and be an asshole without a very strong response."

You have a right to get one. Or many.

Others have a right to comment, if you make a comment about getting one on a public forum. That's how it works.

Why is it that one side thinks it can comment and trumpet itself but not get called on it by the other side?

If someone comments about getting a tattoo in order to demonstrate their individuality, and I comment that it's really not all that individualistic anymore, that is a fair comment I think. Is that a dig?

"Looks like a pretty narrow minded view about tats."

It's narrow minded to think that opposing views are narrow minded.

Circular arguments, anyone?

Your judgmental attitude shines as one of the things that pushed many of us away from the morg.
You bash on tattoos, citing an identity of individuality as the sole purpose of getting one. Do you really think that tattoos can be simplified into nothing more than a mark, so I can say "Look, I'm different?". For some people, they are, but I'm not talking about flash work.
Like I already stated, I have a whole mural on my back. This was hand drawn artwork by my SIL tattoo artist. I own that ink, I own the skin it's on, and most importantly I own the experiences, thoughts and emotions that went into it's concept. Yes it is individual. Why? Because mine is MINE. Even if somebody recreated the whole thing, it's not about the picture itself, it's about my life story.
I have another one on my shoulder with the words "LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE". This was specifically meant as a personal "fuck you" to my parents, to LD$ Inc, and to anybody else that wanted me to live for their selfish expectations. An epiphany I had during my first deployment.

So let me ask you, what makes you a unique flower? What makes you an "individual"? Is it the way you dress? Your hair? Maybe the group of friends you have, or the car you drive? Maybe you're really good at an abstract hobby. How do YOU express yourself? Surely there is something about you or your self-expression that makes you unique, that sets you apart from everybody else in the world. Well guess what? Whatever it is, a gazillion people have already done it.
Your narrow minded view on body art is pathetic. The key word there is ART.

‎"Artists are supposed to comment on culture, that's the fuction of art, So I don't understand why they have...such a backlash" Margaret Cho, 2003

I love being a walking canvas. The only difference between me and a piece of stretched cotton/linen is I cannot be sold or hidden, then sold for an obscene amount of money.

My pieces reflect my anima and animus...They are unique and precious. If you don't like it, kick rocks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2011 01:08PM by Itzpapalotl.

"I have another one on my shoulder with the words "LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE". This was specifically meant as a personal "fuck you" to my parents, to LD$ Inc, and to anybody else that wanted me to live for their selfish expectations.."

Exactly. This attitude just proves my point. "FUCK YOU Mommy and Daddy I'm All Grown Up Now!"

Could be the motto for 80% of tattoophiles. (?)

"So let me ask you, what makes you a unique flower? What makes you an "individual"? "

Critiquing people that think they're incredibly individualistic.

Yet you still seem too shallow to see anything past the physical symbol of a tattoo.

He's lucky he the woman wasn't me because I'd make hears ears burn and fall off followed by a hearty double flipping off.

Ha! He should see the tattoo that covers my whole back, and my wife's that covers her whole right torso!

""You know why you ladies should never get tattoos? Because you're already perfect! Why would you get one of those things? It's fine if a guy gets one tattoo up on his arm, just one, but ladies, you don't need one of those!" "

They didn't learn the Rules.

Compliment a woman = sexist
Don't compliment a woman = sexist

The Rules for dealing with women are simple.

1. Whatever you do, you are wrong
2. See rule #1.

Are to keep your fucking mouth shut if you can't be polite.

There's a vast difference between complimenting a person and being a sleazy asshole about it.

i.e.

"Mary, you look lovely today." vs "Wow, Mary, your tits look great in that blouse."

"Mary, you look lovely today." vs "Wow, Mary, your tits look great in that blouse."

That's NOT what the original poster made reference to. The original quote was as I quoted it, viz.: "You know why you ladies should never get tattoos? Because you're already perfect!"

Nothing vulgar or harrassing, was it?

That's what I was referring to.

I was NOT talking about stuff like "your tits look great in that blouse" or anything like that.

Yes, it is harrassing and rude to loudly proclaim your distaste LOUDLY for others' choices. Again,
If you're going to be a rude jerk about your views, expect a severe backlash.

Your above post is a disgusting example of "damned if you do or damned if you don't." If you don't like something, keep it to yourself in public, unless you want to be deemed a pud. If you can't say something polite, keep your mouth shut; Otherwise, expect a very rude retort.
You said:
"Compliment a woman = sexist
Don't compliment a woman = sexist

The Rules for dealing with women are simple.

1. Whatever you do, you are wrong
2. See rule #1."

Either you are very slow to learn about polite behaviour or an asshole who gets kicks from commenting on other's aesthetic choices. Your post is sexist and ignorant.

You have a very narrow minded veiw of conformity. If everyone was getting the exact same piece of flash art, I could see your point of view, However, people get very different tattoos for a variety of reasons; When I get a heart that says "Pop," it will be for a very different circumstance than other people who choose to get hearts with dad or mom. You know nothing of tattoo culture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2011 07:30PM by Itzpapalotl.

You know the difference between sexist and non-sexist behavior. If you don't, then I'm sure that the Human Resources department at the company for which you work would be happy to educate you in that regard.

I worked in some highly sexist environments in my younger years, and the ick factor was huge for me. I have no doubt in my mind that the intent of the behavior was to push women out of the boys' club (those career fields.)

Theres so much going on with this its sick but alot of it is manipulation.

A tattoo should be a choice like alot of things. This guys basicly saying 'I dont like tattoos and wont have anything to do with you if you get one.'

It sucks.

"A tattoo should be a choice like alot of things. This guys basicly saying 'I dont like tattoos and wont have anything to do with you if you get one.'"

It is a choice. And it's the other person's choice to speak his own mind too. Could be tattoos in this case, could be anything else.

need I say more ?

Well I'm female and over 50 and I've had 2 tattoos for years, no regrets I still love them. When old church friends comment on them, usually the your-body-is-a-temple remark, I simply remind them that I'm simply decorating my temple! They paint, wallpaper and hang pictures in the temple for decor, don't they? So do I. That always shuts them up.

You know why the church put's women on pedestals? Because they are viewed as trophies for the men. Serve a mission and you will have a fine selection of Mormon girls who will want you to take them to temple and then shag their bones afterwards.

Manipulation of sex and the sexes is how Mormonism works.

and a ton of other bizarre, nonsensical attitudes that if you use the perfect brain that Mormon God gave you for like five minutes, you realize are not only stupid but really just designed to keep you from experiencing the world outside of Mormonism. The older I get, the more I realize how it all held me back, the more I resent it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2011 01:45PM by munchybotaz.

I don't have any desire to get one but I recognize how meaningful or fun it could be for people who do get them. I can appreciate them and like it when people explain the meaning they have.

The only thing that has me scratching my head is when someone decides to get a tattoo that will be for life yet they can't bother to consult a dictionary to make sure they spell the words correctly in the tattoo.

I was over at failblog checking out the ugliest tattoos (The Gallery of Regrets). I don't know how many of the pictures are fakes, but after spending too much time there, I'm pretty sure I won't be getting a tattoo anytime soon.

http://ugliesttattoos.failblog.org/

It shows that if you choose to get one, make sure you have a competent artist because it's permanent.

And because it's permanent, what you get really should be something you're happy with until you rot in the ground.

Also, your artist should transfer the design to your skin with non permanent ink before they begin.

Don't be too drunk/high to see that it looks like crap before the artist starts.