I know that LDS is a very socially conservative religion, and I've noticed that some posts on here reference staying conservative despite leaving the church (I think one person even referred to themselves as a "Conservative Atheist", which made me blink for a second).

I should say, for the record, that I am (politically and socially) slightly to the left of Chairman Mao, but is it more or less confusing to reject the church teachings about religion while maintaining the church teachings about social mores? I am honestly curious.

I was BIC and extremely conservative when I was younger. Hell, I took a political spectrum test when I was 16 and the first statement on the result was "You're probably 50 or over...."

I consider myself extremely socially liberal now, but conservative on a few things. It took a few years to realize what i really believed and thought after having been brainwashed my entire life. I aslo have friends from all political spectrums, but I don't argue politics most of the time because it's a waste of energy, IMNSHO.

About the time I realized I had political views, I realized they were way out of synch with official church stances and/or the majority opinions of the members. So, no, I didn't remain conservative when I left the church.

I guess what I'm curious about is whether leaving the church makes one go through a sort of Mormon "Rumspringa", where the pendulum will swing wildly in the other direction for a little while before you settle down and figure out what you really believe for yourself? Having had the church basically tell you what to believe for so long, it would take awhile to figure out if you were REALLY that conservative down underneath or if you were simply doing as you were told.

It would be really disorienting to have to figure all that out after years of being given the script. Wow. I mean, most people go through that as adolescents, where they rebel, then they become a little more conservative as they get older and get jobs and figure out how things really work, and you just go back and forth and adjust your beliefs as you gain age and experience.

Am I making sense?

ETA I'm trying to frame this so it does not become a political discussion (which I know is forbidden) -- mostly I am curious as to whether it's possible to cast off those strictures after having been so immersed in that culture. I've seen several people talk about feeling overwhelming guilt at first when they drank a beer or took off their garments so I know it must have some truly lasting effects.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 12:09PM by frankiepup.

"Rumspringa". (Great analogy by the way). From my years on this board, I think most of start picking apart our entire lives to figure out what it is we really believe in all areas. Then, we slowly put the pieces back together again. Some of us remain politically conservative, and some become liberal. I'm VERY liberal socially for both lifestyle and economically, and swing a little more conservative for business economics.

This is how I would describe what I've done myself as well. I think Mormonism is so much of who you are and tells you what is "right and wrong" to such a degree that to get it all out you have to examine everything you once believed. Religion and politics shouldn't go together, but it does. It is easy to see why we feel like we are on opposite teams.

I moved to Los Angeles as part of leaving the church. It was the mid-'70s. Sex and drugs were everywhere. Cocaine was considered safe. Ecstasy was still legal. People smoked pot on the job. There was no AIDS yet. Liquor stores were open 24/7. It would have been extremely easy for 24-year-old me to indulge in all that. But I didn't. Not because the church was telling me not to, but because it didn't seem like the smart thing to do. I still haven't used recreational drugs. My list of sexual partners is very short. And I have a drink a couple of times a week, or less. But I'm all for decriminalizing pot and probably a few other drugs, I think my state's liquor laws need to be loosened, and I don't care who has sex with whom as long as it's consensual and they don't spread STDs.

At the risk of this turning political, I don't buy into the conservative vs liberal dichotomy. Who's to say what is conservative and what is liberal anyway? It's just a scam to divide people and ensure that poor people continue to vote for rich people and not for other poor people who would redistribute the wealth and ruin the game.

Having said that, people I know would label me extremely liberal based on conversations we've had, but I don't vote anyway.

After Bush/Obama I'm surprised *any* American could possibly continue to believe in the liberal/conservative either/or framework.

on whether or not you believe Obama is actually a liberal (and Fascist, and Communist, and Nazi, ad nauseum). He is most demonstrably NOT one. That's just the convenient slur hurled at him, and Clinton before him.

I'm pretty sure that was Human's point. "Conservative" and "liberal" are just meaningless labels used to divide people and give them the illusion of choice.

At the end of the day whoever gets elected will ensure the status quo. Then after 4 years of poor people continuing to get fuc&%ed, they'll be convinced that they should vote for the other party because that will magically make a difference, don't pay attention to the fact that both candidates are rich, and most americans are poor.

In order for a small group of people to be rich, a large group of people must be poor. If there are 10 dollars, and you want 9, that only leaves 1 for the rest of us. Why would a large group of people who are sharing 1 dollar continue to vote for a very small group of people who are sharing the other 9 dollars? The answer: they're divided by empty political rhetoric like "conservative" and "liberal."

Then the large group who share the dollar continue to be surprised every day that the very small group who share the 9 dollars aren't sharing with the large group.

It's just silly if you ask me.

...rarely doesn't work.

One thing I am grateful to the present Administration for: I'm finally cured of being a political junkie (read: political idealism).

...the labels "conservative" and "liberal" haven't any real meaning, regardless of what you believe. Obama is just as demonstrably NOT "liberal" as Bush II is demonstrably NOT "conservative".

The seamlessness of the two administrations demands an entirely different kind of discourse.

That's just a plain dumb and illogical conclusion.

...anything else in American political life. The labels are meaningless and, worse, they profoundly mislead the political discourse.

America needs a new discourse, along the lines kolobian outlines would make for a good start.

There is still a sliver of the Democratic Party that is Liberal and lives up to that description. Not a large part, or even the majority, but a part that is active. And since most Americans still use such labels to describe themselves, they still have utility.

Is reform needed? Badly. But even suggesting that the whole existing framework of thought be chucked is not only silly, it utterly unrealistic and completely undoable. Sorry. Stop dreaming and deal with reality as it exists.

helamonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Sorry. Stop dreaming and
> deal with reality as it exists.


That's my advice for you, too.

Just because Kucinich exists doesn't mean he wouldn't have to capitulate to "the status quo", should the sliver of a chance of his election come true.

Just because, oh, say, P. Buchanan exists doesn't mean he wouldn't also have had to capitulate to "the status quo", should the sliver of a chance of his election come true.

Perhaps you need to stop dreaming about "slivers" and see reality as it exists. Obama should have cured you of "slivers" by now.

...you assume the framework is worth preserving and was created for the poor people's benefit in the first place. All the evidence is to the contrary.

Just because we're too lazy to create something that benefits the majority doesn't mean it's unrealistic. We're just lazy.

Reform is just another way of saying "somebody else is bound to fix it."

"...and was created for the poor people's benefit in the first place."

I'm fairly certain he did not say that.

I'm fairly certain nobody did. That's the problem..

Then I guess I didn't get it :)

Just because the labels don't describe either of our current political parties doesn't mean that the labels don't accurately describe political ideals.

It doesn't matter that the Republicans aren't really conservatives, the word "conservative" hasn't lost its meaning.

Conservative and Liberal ideas are very well defined. They are better defined now than they ever have been before.

Most of my exmo friends are very liberal now. For me, I was the exact opposite. As a Mormon I was socially conservative, but politically liberal. Now, as an exmo, I have become politically conservative and socially liberal.

It was an odd shift.

Great post! I left the church about 7 years ago, I was 23, and I was definitely a "Molly Mormon" up until then. I did go through that little wild streak for a few years. Not too crazy, but I for sure felt like a teenager that never got to experiment with things normal teenagers usually experience.

I still remember my first alcoholic drink, a pina colada, and completely gagging after each sip! I still drink a glass of wine occasionally and dabble a bit into other things every once in a while, if you know what I mean ;)

Wait, are we talking politics here??

instead of arrogant, judgemental, self-rightious narrow minded mormons they become arrogant, judgemental self-rightous, narrow minded athiests and occultist

Well, I think I would become liberal in a couple things, but I wouldn't do dumb things just to go against the church. I think, for example, that taking illegal drugs isn't a smart thing, and I don't want to do it, regardless of what the church might say.

(by the way, I'm a minor, and my family makes me go to church and do all the activities, that's why I've not left the church yet)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 03:27PM by kolobian.

and I have always been a democrat even in my most molly days. I'm 54 years old, so I remember the days when people in utah voted democrat. Abortion and women's lib ended that.

I converted my gay ex to democrat. He now can't believe he was ever republican.

(but I think it is all bullshit now anyway--)

Had I not already been a parent at the time that I really left mormonism my Rumspringa would have been freaking awesome. As it was it was pretty conservative for my age and social group but, again, it had more to do with being a parent than with a conservative upbringing.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 04:20PM by steve benson.

I'm more liberal now. Most conservatives (or just from what I've seen) believe in Christianity or some religion, so that pushes me more to the left since I don't believe in any religion at all. But I guess you could get religious nuts on both sides. Either way, I've changed a lot of my political views since leaving Mormonism. I prefer to stay in the middle though and look at both sides, because after all, everyone in politics is highly educated and neither side can be right. That's just how I look at it. I prefer to stay out of politics.