http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,241709,241709#msg-241709

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,242015,242015#msg-242015

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,242152,242152#msg-242152

Yes, it's true – I'm getting married to a guy who was born a Muslim in Afghanistan, who has never been to the US, and I haven't even seen him in person in over two years. Like most people on here were telling me, sounds like a bad idea, right? The Mormon church thinks so too - "We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background." (“Lesson 31: Choosing an Eternal Companion,” Aaronic Priesthood Manual 3, 127) The logical thing would be for me to break off my engagement based on the anecdotal advice of some random people I don't really know, who knew someone who had a failed relationship with an Iranian or Saudi Arabian. Right?
Here's the thing. I'm not willing to make my decisions based on an unfounded fear of something that could possibly go wrong in the future. Mormonism is based on fear, but I've moved past that. “Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace.” (Amelia Earhart) Sometimes faith can be a good thing: faith in another human being; faith in love. I choose that kind of faith over fear.
Please feel free to post all your prophecies of doom about how I will be enslaved by a domineering Muslim man who is only interested in me because he wants to live in the US, and will kidnap me and my future children to some faraway country, never to be heard from again. Most of you didn't even care to read my entire post before responding, and you certainly won't be around to find out whether your prophecies come true or not. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is not effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” (Theodore Roosevelt) Except for using “man” and “he” throughout the quote (as I'm sure Steve Benson would point out ), President Roosevelt is exactly right.

Do you love him? Does he love you? Would you go into the burning building to save him? If so...then you should marry him...if not...well.

If he has been westernized and is an "american type muslim" I am sure you will have no worries, especially if he is a FORMER muslim -- but if he was into Sharia Law which does not let women drive and have an education, and speak their mind --

Unless he has put great distance between where he was, because Muslims in Afghanistan are notoriously strict, and where he is now .. You could be heading for a whole bundle of trouble. Fear has nothing to do with it --being informed has everything to do with it ..Find out first but good luck !!!

JB

Yes, he's a westernized former muslim - he has been living and working with US soldiers for many years. Besides which, his mother is educated and had a career. Not sure what you mean by saying that Muslims in Afghanistan are notoriously strict (an Arab Muslim would strongly disagree with you on that).

Last time I was suspicious I didn't say anything until AFTER the fake drama had been exposed.

I have commented on previous posts by sexismyreligion and wasn't too suspicious of the reality of these posts but I am starting to wonder.

Why would someone who was expecting "prophecies of doom and gloom" post in the forum where they thought that was going to be inevitable? Sexismyrelgion argues with everything, is extremely sensitive and isn't really here for advice. If we aren't supportive(which I refuse to be) then why would a real person with these real circumstances be here?

If you are real, look back at what we've said. Most of us have no problem with you marrying a former Muslim.

I wasn't asking for advice about whether or not I should marry him, but when I mentioned it as background information, posters jumped all over it. I was surprised at the reaction and wasn't happy with the way it was left.
I don't understand what you are saying here, bingoe4 - "If we aren't supportive (which I refuse to be)..." followed by "Most of us have no problem with you marrying a former Muslim." Can you clarify why you refuse to be supportive if you have no problem with it?

I don't care who you marry(if this is a true story). I am not biased against Muslims and have never hinted in the least that I am. My problem always has been and still is that you are going to a dangerous place.

In general the board has been very unsupportive about you going to a Muslim country that is currently ravaged by war. I won't say that I think it is ok for you to go there for any reason. That is what I am unsupportive of.

I am not so sure that just because an Afghani marries an American that they will get to come to the States anyway. It wasn't that simple for people I knew who married their "mission sweethearts" from the Philippines.

This just has a ring of untruth to me.

I don't care if you believe that it's true or not, your belief doesn't affect my life in the slightest. I'm not saying you are biased against Muslims and don't much care if you are. I understand what you're saying better now - you just don't think it's a good idea to travel to a dangerous country - and you have a valid point. However, I have decided to take the risk, because the opportunity outweighs the danger, and I'm not going to live my life in fear. That's my personal choice, and I don't understand why that would be offensive.
I think visas have changed in the last few years - there is now a K3 visa for spouses, which works the same way as a K1 fiancee visa. Probably your experience in the Philippines was before that change.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 05:38PM by sexismyreligion.

I went back and read the other posts and have one question; Why are we still talking about this? You got a lot of feedback from the other posts (some you liked, some you didn't), and the subject was covered from top to bottom. Why would you start another post about the same topic if you were so mistreated before? Seems like you like the drama, Maybe?

If you were as sure about the situation as you claim to be you would not be posting about it here. You would be in Afganistan marrying him.

Most of what was covered was other people's biases and fears, not my actual situation. As I hoped, not all the feedback was negative this time, and I'll be emailing Anagrammy privately. I will be in Afghanistan marrying him very soon, but I'm obviously not giving any more details on here.

How much time have you spent living near or with this man?

As your pseudo grandma, I have to ask...

where and how did you meet?

were you depressed/lonely/unhappy at the time or were you cruising merrily along?

how do you know he's a former Muslim? (i.e., he and I were baptized Catholic, all our friends know he's agnostic, he and his family all left after his uncle was killed, his grandma told me)

how long has he been a former Muslim and does he have an internet history of posts about his experience?

do you know his family?

Why haven't you seen each other in two years?

What made you decide to get married now rather than some other time?

What interests do you have in common? (subtract everything you talk about that has to do with love, sex, relationships, childhood, and not movies or netsurfing, because everybody has those. What counts is an interest you had before you knew he existed and he also has. Like you collect antique thimbles and he collects antique juice squeezers. Like you both have a working train set, knit, go to comic shows, golf, ski, etc.)

Have you had sex?

Why or why not?

As these are very personal, feel free to ignore me and just think about your answers, or email me.

Anagrammy

PS. How many times have you seen "Not Without My Daughter?" (kidding!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 12:40PM by anagrammy.

Ha ha, my mom brought up "Not Without My Daughter" (but she wasn't kidding). Thank you Anagrammy, I have a lot of respect for you and would love to email you.

Rubbing shoulders with American soldiers is NOT the same thing as trying to make it in the U S of A.

It is difficult for foreign wives, even though they usually have their American husbands to lean on, support them, and show them the ropes.

It will be doubly hard for this man. I think you are overly optimistic but I wish you well.

Let us know how things are working out in, oh, about five years or however long it takes until he has his citizenship papers in hand.

Hopefully, you also have an exit strategy just in case it doesn't go as planned.

I'm not sure that either you or I will be on this board five years from now...and to be honest, my relationship with my husband will be more important than trying to impress you... Are you married, and do you have an "exit strategy" for your marriage? How is that working out for you?
I don't quite understand why it would be harder for a foreign husband with an American wife than it is for a foreign wife with an American husband.

Doesn't matter who you marry. Its always a crap-shoot.

Beloved nevermo spouse of thirty-three years and I work very hard at making it work. Glo's argument is the same argument proposed by those who condemn inter-faith marriages. Bottom line is that we don't let anything, be it family, faith, whatever, come between us.

Good luck to both of you!

Timothy

Good advice. I wish you the best as well.

That's because you are living a fantasy, marrying a foreigner you don't know well and haven't seen in 2 years.

Those of us who are married ( yes,I am ) can see the folly of your actions.
You are behaving like an immature adolescent.

But it's your life and only you will have to live with the consequences of your actions.

So it seems that the real issue to you is the long-distance relationship. Only an immature adolescent would marry someone after being engaged for two years, staying in contact by phone calls and talking on webcam during that time, without any physical contact. Prior to that time I only worked with him every day for six months, so I must not know him well...?
You're right, I am the one who will live with the consequences of my actions, so there's really no need for me to justify myself to you.

Why don't you just live together for a while?

Because Afghanistan is not a safe place for me to live and he can't just hop on a plane and fly to the US.

Unless, of course, you have children, then they will also have to live with the consequences.

Be careful, if not for your sake, for theirs.

If I follow your advice and don't get married, there won't be any children to worry about.
If I don't follow your advice and get killed, again, no children to worry about.
I suppose this is a reference to a scenario like in "Not Without My Daughter." There's one major difference - that happened in Iran. My children aren't going to be going to Afghanistan for any reason in the current situation, because - there's a WAR going on there. Of course things could change in the future, but it's nearly as plausible to argue that things in the US could get so bad that the government shuts down, the rule of law no longer applies, and your sweet spouse decides to take advantage of the situation by running away with your kids. You never know what could happen, so you better prepare now.
I'm not going to live my life being afraid of some doomsday scenario that has about a 0.0000000000001% probability of happening.

Edit: I meant in reference to future children who could possibly be taken to a foreign country. Yes, I have a daughter who would be affected if anything happened to me. But that didn't keep me from deploying to Afghanistan, and the chances of dying in a car accident are greater than the chances of being shot overseas. Would you use that as a reason not to drive a car?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 05:13PM by sexismyreligion.

I have a friend who is a Laveyan Satanist. She's been in a long-term long-distance relationship with a practicing Muslim man for years. They adore each other, and she's been to Egypt to visit his family. She insists on not getting married until her mother passes away, since she is her only close kin. After that, though, she's going to marry him. I have rarely seen two people more in love, with more respect for each other, or more willing to do the groundwork needed to fix issues in the relationship.

The best advice I can give is to take things slow, set ground rules and talk at length now about expectations once you're married, and stay in touch with everyone else who's important in your life...basic cautions for anyone in a long-distance arrangement.

Good luck!

"Stupid is as stupid does, Mrs. Blue." Forrest Gump

listen to your heart:
listen to anagrammy:
listen to Tim:
listen to your heart:
in that order!! :)

But I think I'll follow your advice.

Bottom line is, the people on here want you to be happy and safe. No one wants any harm to come to you.
A couple of questions you can ask yourself.

What is the plan if you get married but are detainted for awhile before you can come back to the states?

Since his family is still over there, will he try to come back and visit them? What if they are never able to come to the states? Will he never see them again? If he visits will he want you and future children to come so they can meet his family?

What job will have he have here in the states?

You stated that you have a daughter. If your daughter was in the same position as you, how would you proceed? What advice would you give her? Are there any red flags that you would see for her? Sometimes, we can't always see where we are standing. We need to see it from another view. I'm not saying that you shouldn't marry this guy. Only you know the answer to that. Coming from Mormonism, it's easy to ignore the red flags and go with other feelings. Remember, no one here wants to see you hurt. Everyone wants to see you happy.

That sounds a little patronizing - why does everyone here care so much about my happiness? I'm just a stranger posting on the internet. I don't buy it. I don't think I've ever even seen a posting by you before. But OK.
My plan, if I get detained in Afghanistan, is to walk over to the U.S. Embassy (yes, I'll be registered there so they know I'm in the country). If for some reason I can't get to the embassy (highly unlikely), I'll just try to find a U.S. soldier and catch a ride to the nearest military base. The worst that would happen would be that I'd miss my flight and have to purchase a new ticket.
He will probably want to visit his family, and I might go too, but obviously not bring any children, because it's just not safe.
There are plenty of translating jobs here in the US. In any case, I'm able to support myself, if it takes him a while to find work.
Sorry, but your post is giving me flashbacks to Young Women's leaders and speakers in General Conference who "only want what's best for you." Why would anyone else know better than I do what's best for me?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 05:32PM by sexismyreligion.

If not, you're nuckin' futz. Holy shiz.

Reread my quote in the original post, from Theodore Roosevelt. You can say it's nuts, because it's something you would never dare to do - but who's really going to make a difference in the world, the person who actually accomplishes something or the person who says it can't be done?

If, if you are moving to his country then you are in a losing marriage. Former Muslim does not mean any thing. If you want to be a slave for the rest of your life then go for it. I would like to see you happy but the choice is yours. Again I repete, if you are moving to his country, then former muslim does not mean anything.

If I was planning to go live in Afghanistan, you would be entirely justified in calling me crazy. No, I'm just visiting for two weeks, getting married there and coming back.