Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
My thoughts are inspired by this post: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,278749, however, they aren't entirely about that particular story, so I'm starting a new thread.
I suppose the difference, at it's core, is faith, but I simply can no longer imagine subjecting myself to the Mormon way of life. Specifically, handing over my decision making abilities to some guy who just happens to live near me, and happens to be placed in a position of power. The bishops I recall from my time as an active member were: a dentist, a businessman or two, and a cop. OK. So *maybe* the cop could be helpful in matters like the above story, but other than that - he's just a layman too.
I stopped attending church at 19/20 years old. Now that I'm in my 30s and a mom, I really can't imagine advising my daughter to seek a bishop's counsel for anything! Unless, of course, it's the dentist and she has a toothache but in that case, we'll go to his dental office, not the one at church.
It's not just seeking the bishop's counsel that I have a hard time wrapping my head around, it's the entire committment to having one's life more or less dictated by someone, or something, other than one's self. This entirely man-made set of rules about my eternal salvation. How many holes I can have in my ears. What my underwear looks like. How many children I have. What I can drink. What movies to watch. *shiver*
I see it as a very positive sign that I've gotten so far removed that I seriously can hardly remember what it's like to buy into the whole thing, and how, in considering what it was like, it's feels foreign rather than something I'm working my way away from. I've come a long way.
Going back to the original story - I'm encouraged by the fact that the girl's parents didn't take that bishop's counsel as appropriate and went outide the church for solutions. Maybe this is the beginning of the end for them, a little glimpse into just how weird their way of life has been, to give some neighborhood schmoe that much influence over the most personal and sensitive matters in their life. I can hope anyway.
I suppose the difference, at it's core, is faith, but I simply can no longer imagine subjecting myself to the Mormon way of life. Specifically, handing over my decision making abilities to some guy who just happens to live near me, and happens to be placed in a position of power. The bishops I recall from my time as an active member were: a dentist, a businessman or two, and a cop. OK. So *maybe* the cop could be helpful in matters like the above story, but other than that - he's just a layman too.
I stopped attending church at 19/20 years old. Now that I'm in my 30s and a mom, I really can't imagine advising my daughter to seek a bishop's counsel for anything! Unless, of course, it's the dentist and she has a toothache but in that case, we'll go to his dental office, not the one at church.
It's not just seeking the bishop's counsel that I have a hard time wrapping my head around, it's the entire committment to having one's life more or less dictated by someone, or something, other than one's self. This entirely man-made set of rules about my eternal salvation. How many holes I can have in my ears. What my underwear looks like. How many children I have. What I can drink. What movies to watch. *shiver*
I see it as a very positive sign that I've gotten so far removed that I seriously can hardly remember what it's like to buy into the whole thing, and how, in considering what it was like, it's feels foreign rather than something I'm working my way away from. I've come a long way.
Going back to the original story - I'm encouraged by the fact that the girl's parents didn't take that bishop's counsel as appropriate and went outide the church for solutions. Maybe this is the beginning of the end for them, a little glimpse into just how weird their way of life has been, to give some neighborhood schmoe that much influence over the most personal and sensitive matters in their life. I can hope anyway.
...the child is ALONE with a man s/he may not even know.
...this man may be asking questions of a VERY PERSONAL nature.
When you couple this with the lack of training/screening of this man, you've got a situation ripe for abuses, not just bad advice.
...this man may be asking questions of a VERY PERSONAL nature.
When you couple this with the lack of training/screening of this man, you've got a situation ripe for abuses, not just bad advice.
Absolutely. It's a playland for predators.
“it's the entire committment to having one's life more or less dictated by someone, or something, other than one's self.” --That is at the heart of the problem with Mormonism. Mormonism requires our giving up the power over our own lives to an institution whose goals are only 1) its own self-preservation and 2) the financial security and comfort of those at the very top.
Then “the problem is compounded” by the abuse inherent in such a system, as “unindoctrinated” so aptly adds!
Thanks to YOU, fallenangela, your daughter will learn to trust her own inner guidance, rather than ignoring it in order to follow someone else's dictums. She will also avoid the problems inherent in private meetings with older men.
May more members see the light and provide the same benefits for their families!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2011 11:55AM by WiserWomanNow.
Then “the problem is compounded” by the abuse inherent in such a system, as “unindoctrinated” so aptly adds!
Thanks to YOU, fallenangela, your daughter will learn to trust her own inner guidance, rather than ignoring it in order to follow someone else's dictums. She will also avoid the problems inherent in private meetings with older men.
May more members see the light and provide the same benefits for their families!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2011 11:55AM by WiserWomanNow.
Thank you! I appreciate your thoughts and the kudos for doing it differently with my own daughter. It's certainly been a conscious choice to do so. I was never a scholarly type member who knew the scripture stories well but I knew "the do's, the don'ts for happy, happy living" and I know how they created anything but a happy life for me. I want so much more for her.
Even as a non-Mormon, I've had Mormons suggest that I should seek my (MY?) bishop's counsel for a particular problem.
Why would I do that? First, he isn't MY bishop. He's just some guy who happens to live in my neighborhood. Second, he's a computer programmer for pity's sake. Nice guy, but completely unequipped to counsel anyone with serious issues.
But I am amazed at how often my TBM friends will run to the bishop with the silliest of minor issues. Sometimes it's like kids running to mom to settle a squabble.
Why would I do that? First, he isn't MY bishop. He's just some guy who happens to live in my neighborhood. Second, he's a computer programmer for pity's sake. Nice guy, but completely unequipped to counsel anyone with serious issues.
But I am amazed at how often my TBM friends will run to the bishop with the silliest of minor issues. Sometimes it's like kids running to mom to settle a squabble.
(use Yoda voice)Agree with that, I do.
Bishops get all kinds of questions that they are ill-equipped to handle. When I was a counselor, the rule was that we could help member with their issues unless it was marital or morality problems, and those had to go to the Bishop. The Bishop who is there by assignment has only a manual and leadership experience to guide him unless he happens to be trained due to his day job.
There came a time in my church life that I had served with enough Bishops that I did not feel it was a good idea to go to the Bp except to repent.
As a Counselor I quickly saw how it works when he needs to counsel someone on an issue they bring to him, and it is no different than when you go to your boss at work.
Just like going to your boss with a personal problem, when you go to a Bishop the advice you do get is usually something that helps you support the church.
Bishops get all kinds of questions that they are ill-equipped to handle. When I was a counselor, the rule was that we could help member with their issues unless it was marital or morality problems, and those had to go to the Bishop. The Bishop who is there by assignment has only a manual and leadership experience to guide him unless he happens to be trained due to his day job.
There came a time in my church life that I had served with enough Bishops that I did not feel it was a good idea to go to the Bp except to repent.
As a Counselor I quickly saw how it works when he needs to counsel someone on an issue they bring to him, and it is no different than when you go to your boss at work.
Just like going to your boss with a personal problem, when you go to a Bishop the advice you do get is usually something that helps you support the church.
Seriously, why *would* you do that? Advising a non-member to talk to the local bishop is really, really weird! Another example of just how truly out of touch some members are. The tunnel vision it would take to suggest such a thing is really sad.
On a funny note - Your question: Why would I do that? reminds me of something my friend just told me. While discussing entering Kindergarten, her son asked, "Why would I wanna do that?!" LOL Hang out with his stay-at-home dad for the day, or go to school? I can see his point. :-)
On a funny note - Your question: Why would I do that? reminds me of something my friend just told me. While discussing entering Kindergarten, her son asked, "Why would I wanna do that?!" LOL Hang out with his stay-at-home dad for the day, or go to school? I can see his point. :-)
hypothetical experirment!!!!!!!
Ask the Bishop"Are you a child molestor/pervert?" note his reaction. If he says no, send your kid to be interviewed. But don't forget to put a hidden recording wire or surveilance on the kid. after the interview, review it in front of the Bishop. This would be very fun
Ask the Bishop"Are you a child molestor/pervert?" note his reaction. If he says no, send your kid to be interviewed. But don't forget to put a hidden recording wire or surveilance on the kid. after the interview, review it in front of the Bishop. This would be very fun
My bishop is my first cousin's kid. Why would I go to this guy for council if I had any problems needing religious guidance? Hell I don't think he's even had any education other than high school.