I am battling with a TBM that says emphatically that Joseph Smith did not have any multiple wives. Now, I know he did, but I need some help from those of you out there that know this stuff inside and out.
How can I respond with references and show him the truth? Can any of you please help me? I know the History of the Church states that he did as do genealogical records but I do not know where exactly this is stated. Thanks in advance.

BB

Isn't it on their own genealogy site?

yes, it's on family search

It was written by Richard Anderson for the Maxwell Institute of Religious Studies at BYU.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=10&num=2&id=290

Now, this is a FARMS book review, so it will likely seek to discredit some of what Compton wrote about, but the first paragraph admits to JS having polygamous wives.

You could also send this person to mormon dialogue board.

Go to this link:

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

Scroll down to the for familysearch.org and here's what you get:

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=7762167

No question about it. He had many wives, and as you can see, one was only 14 years old.

TG

I ask because I used to be access family tree info the way you have done here. Now the site is broken up into LDS and non LDS and I can only get individual info...people are not linked together in trees.

notmo

I posted the link to family search.org web site showing JS many wives. Here is the response I received from my TBM friend:


Allow me to point out the passage at the bottom of the page

About Ancestral File
Ancestral File is a collection of genealogical information taken from Pedigree Charts and Family Group Records submitted to the Family History Department since 1978. The information has not been verified against any official records. Since the information in Ancestral File is contributed, it is the responsibility of those who use the file to verify its accuracy.

This is not a published church document and is not verified to be true. This is a service provided so that people can track their ancestry but it has the reliability of wikipedia. Anyone with a computer and a motive can add a spouse to Joseph Smith. You should notice that 4 of the women, Amanda Barnes, Sylvia Sessions, Mary Houston and Nancy Whinchester all apparently married him two or more years after his death. Furthermore 6 of the marriages there is no date for. If Joseph Smith had married someone whether it was wrong or not full records would have been kept of it. 5 of them have no location which puts them in the same category as those with no information. Another 12 occured during times and places they could not have as Joseph Smith was either in jail or traveling during those times. There are 24 spouses on this list, you will notice that some of the reasons they are not legitimate overlap giving us 27 reasons why this is false. Emma was his only true wife. It may be true that he may have had some additional wives but not that many and it was clearly not sex driven as the our only additional possibilities here couldn't have spent very much time with him during their marriage.


Thoughts?

Well for one thing, do you think the church would let people run rampant about JS' love life? They'd protect him no matter what.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,237010

That's a good link to explain Joseph's escapades.

Also, tell him to read In Sacred Loneliness. It's also clear he hasn't really checked out wivesofjosephsmith.org very well, since they gives references and everything.

However, I do see names in the FS link that don't appear in wojs.org so I wonder.

Here is his record on Familysearch.org(The Church's Website)

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/af/individual_record.asp?recid=7762167

You can also reference Fair and Farms as they don't deny that he practiced polygamy. I'm sure there are numerous other sources that cite this as well, enough of them that the church wouldn't try to deny it if you could ask them directly.

The problem is that you can't ask them directly. They rely on the membership and lower level leadership to innocently(or even intentionally sometimes) perpetuate misinformation. Meanwhile, they refuse to answer any questions or accept any letters from the peons and claim that they are a threat to their safety.

As a side note, I couldn't find the Joseph Smith file through Family Search's search function. It has been sited elsewhere so many times that I was able to find it through google. Can anybody find it with Family Search's search function or is there some information control going on here?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2011 08:14PM by givemetruth.

Thank you all for the info. I will let you know his reaction.

His spiritual wifery did not include a legal document or ceremony. His "marriages" were mere temple inventions to legitimize his dalliances. His "wives" were actually concubines.

This is one main reason that (according to Fawn Brodie) Emma denied the polygamous relations- to avoid lending any honor or legitimacy to the women who were sleeping with her husband.

But for all intents and purposes, yes he did and your TBM friend knows it.

I believe also, that the Doctrine and Covenants study manual references it section 132.

...52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph...

It's clear from the earlier verses that "those that have been given" are other women. So not only did JS have other wives, he had them BEFORE the "revelation" was given.

If you can get her to see that, then you might have her read D&C 132 as if it were written by a guy who had been caught boinking other women. "No, see, it's totally okay, because God said so. So stop complaining, Emma."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2011 10:23PM by Stray Mutt.

Also in the study manual issued by the church, Church History in the Fulness of Times on page 256 2nd paragraph.

Now that I have a bit more time, here is the passage in the church material referenced above:

"Moreover, Joseph Smith and the Church were to accept the principle of plural marriage as part of the restoration of all things (see v.45). Accustomed to conventional marriage patterns, the Prophet was at first understandably reluctant to engage in this new practice. Due to lack of historical documentation, we do not kinow what his early attempts were to comply with commandment in Ohio. His first recorded plural marriage in Nauvoo was to Louisa Beaman; it was performed by Bishop Joseph B. Noble on 5 April 1841. (11) During the next three years Joseph took additional plural wives in accordance with the Lord's commands." from Church History In The Fullness Of Times, Copyright 1989, p. 256.

Being at convert of 20 years before my disaffection, I cannot begin to tell you how I felt when I found out that JS was a polygamist. I had assumed with great naivety, that the church believed it was a mistake and changed it, or at least, that is what I was led to believe. Still not knowing much (only what I ran across in the D & C manual), I went to my bishop and he referred me to the stake president. Never once did this individual tell me to study it out or provide any insight other than that if I believed JS was a prophet, then I needed to have enough faith that it was a true commandment. In hindsight, I found his treatment of me very patronizing. They paint JS to be a loving, monogamous husband. The immediate two years prior to my disaffection, I taught RS from the Teaching of Presidents of the Church Joseph Smith. Being a good little Mormon woman, I stuck to the manual, using no outside sources. As I was cleaning out boxes yesterday, trying to get organized ( is that even possible?), I ran across many hand written notes from the ladies I taught, saying how they were touched by my testimony of JS. Weeks after completing my assignment for 2 years, the crap starting hitting the fan, and I found out a whole other side of the man named JS. It infuriates me that I was a pawn. A pawn in the Church of Jesus Christ of Compliance Professionals. I often relate to people, how they would feel if I put them in a position of knowing an individual, who I describe all their positive, glowing characteristics, knowing this individaul had another Jekyll/Hyde personality, yet did not fill them in on it. I could probably write a glowing review of the most evil, hardened criminal and paint a pretty picture of this person. Then, you having put your trust in me, exposed your family and learned the other side. Learned meaning a family member lost their life, a family member lost their virtue, and/or a family member lost their family thru disownment for not believing the same as you. Who is responsible in this scenario? I think it would be me, having known the bigger picture. I would have liked to have been given that opportunity to know the true nature of JS from the beginning. IMHO, the Church (they like to be capitalized (in more way than one ;) ) is extremely disingenuous.

If you take the above quote out of the church history manual noting that the church approves the sealing date to Louisa Beaman as 5 April 1841, and then look at:

"Be meek and lowly, upright and pure: render good for evil. If you bring on yourselves your own destruction, I will complain. It is not right for a man to bear down his neck to the oppressore always. Be humble and patient in all circumstances of life; we shall then triumph more gloriously. What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one." from History of the Church, Volume 6. p. 411. Address of the Prophet given at 10 am on Sunday May 26, 1844.

or the Oct. 1, 1842 edition of Times and Seasons:


ON MARRIAGE.

According to the custom of all civilized nations, marriage is regulated by laws and ceremonies: therefore we believe, that all marriages in this church of Christ of Latter Day Saints, should be solemnized in a public meeting, or feast, prepared for that purpose: and that the solemnization should be performed by a presiding high priest, high priest, bishop, elder, or priest, not even prohibiting those persons who are desirous to get married, of being married by other authority.-We believe that it is not right to prohibit members of this church from marrying out of the church, if it be their determination so to do, but such persons will be considered weak in the faith of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Marriage should be celebrated with prayer and thanksgiving; and at the solemnization, the persons to be married, standing together, the man on the right, and the woman on the left, shall be addressed, by the person officiating, as he shall be directed by the holy Spirit; and if there be no legal objections, he shall say, calling each by their names: "You both mutually agree to be each other's companion, husband and wife, observing the legal rights belonging to this condition; that is, keeping yourselves wholly for each other, and from all others, during your lives." And when they have answered "Yes," he shall pronounce them "husband and wife" in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by virtue of the laws of the country and authority vested in him: "may God add his blessings and keep you to fulfil [fulfill] your covenants from henceforth and forever. Amen."

The clerk of every church should keep a record of all marriages, solemnized in his branch.

All legal contracts of marriage made before a person is baptized into this church, should be held sacred and fulfilled. Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again. It is not right to persuade a woman to be baptized contrary to the will of her husband, neither is it lawful to influence her to leave her husband. All children are bound by law to obey their parents; and to influence them to embrace any religious faith, or be baptized, or leave their parents without their consent, is unlawful and unjust. We believe that husbands, parents and masters who exercise control over their wives, children, and servants and prevent them from embracing the truth, will have to answer for that sin.

We have given the above rule of marriage as the only one practiced in this church, to show that Dr. J. C. Bennett's "secret wife system" is a matter of his own manufacture; and further to disabuse the public ear, and shew [show] that the said Bennett and his misanthropic friend Origen Bachelor, are perpetrating a foul and infamous slander upon an innocent people, and need but be known to be hated and despise. In support of this position, we present the following certificates:-

We the undersigned members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and residents of the city of Nauvoo, persons of families do hereby certify and declare that we know of no other rule or system of marriage than the one published from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and we give this certificate to show that Dr. J. C. Bennett's "secret wife system"

(page 939)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




is a creature of his own make as we know of no such society in this place nor never did.

S. Bennett, N. K. Whitney,

George Miller, Albert Pettey,

Alpheus Cutler, Elias Higbee,

Reynolds Cahoon, John Taylor,

Wilson Law, E. Robinson,

W. Woodruff, Aaron Johnson.

We the undersigned members of the ladies' relief society, and married females do certify and declare that we know of no system of marriage being practised [practiced] in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints save the one contained in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and we give this certificate to the public to show that J. C. Bennett's "secret wife system" is a disclosure of his own make.

Emma Smith, President,

Elizabeth Ann Whitney, Counsellor [Counselor],

Sarah M. Cleveland, Counsellor [Counselor],

Eliza R. Snow, Secretary,

Mary C. Miller, Catharine Pettey,

Lois Cutler, Sarah Higbee,

Thirza Cahoon, Phebe Woodruff

Ann Hunter, Leonora Taylor,

Jane Law, Sarah Hillman,

Sophia R. Marks, Rosannah Marks,

Polly Z. Johnson, Angeline Robinson,

Abigail Works.

Joseph Smith lied in the address dated in May of 1844 and had others lie for him in the affidavit in the Times and Seasons dated in Oct. 1842. THESE ARE COLD HARD FACTS AND STATEMENTS.

As other have said, clue your friend in on a little thing called Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants (which apparently is still regarded as official scripture by the LDS Church).

Then ask your friend why it's important to him to believe that Joe did not have multiple wives. Will it make the Church seem truer somehow, notwithstanding the fact that Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, etc., all had multiple wives and claimed repeatedly for decades that they did so in order to comply with the revelations received by Joseph Smith.

Your TBM friend seems to have blown some logic circuits. Next thing you know, he'll be denying that the temple ritual ever included bloody oaths. I guess it's pretty convenient for TBMs to be able to just make stuff up and deny stuff without any regard for facts.

was nothing more than a skanky liar.

Here's a BYU Studies article that amply documents the testimony of one of Joseph Smith's multiple wives.

http://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/12.1Palmer.pdf

(The author of the linked article was not only a temple-worthy Mormon, he freakin' acted in the temple movie. So your TBM friend will get nowhere if he tries to insinuate that the author had an axe to grind against Joe. )

What a difference a century makes.

Back in the late 1800s the Reorganized LDS Church (led by JS's son and with Emma as the Grande Dame) claimed that Brigham Young started polygamy and that Joseph Smith never took any wives but Emma.

Well the Church dug up all of the living wives of JS and had them all dictate and sign affidavits proving that JS was the source of polygamy. Back then the claim that "JS had only one wife" was an "anti-Mormon lie." Now it's thrown out as a defense of the Morg.

Thank you all for your help in this matter. Your references are astounding! I received this reply(as we are emailing each other)in regards to my comments thus far on the wives of JS on the family research.org website:


I do not want to get involved in a long debate. What I will say is that that is not the churches website you'll notice at the bottom it is tagged as an unofficial website of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints meaning that the church does not endorse it. Even if it was the church has better things to do than police their family history site. People are going to believe up and down that Joseph Smith was some sort of polygamist sex crazed lunatic no matter what I or the church says. The fact is that is simply not true. Polygamy did not exist in the church for sexual pleasure, minors were never involved and nobodies wives were taken from them. The persecution of the church was not based on polygamy either. The church was persecuted and driven from the country for reasons only known to the twisted culture that was 19th century america. Polygamy was introduced after various mobs killed a large number of the men and a prophecy came out as they headed for Salt Lake that widows should be taken as plural wives. Some will say this was done to protect and care for these widows and while that was part of it the truth was that in order for the church to progress it needed to grow and to do that people needed to be born. You can take that as you want to but that is the true story.


He then bore his testimony to me.


Well, this is too easy huh? I get the impression that he does not want to continue the discussion. Thoughts???

BB

my response would be:

reference?

"...a prophecy came out as they headed for Salt Lake that widows should be taken as plural wives..."

Have your TBM friend open up his D&C to section 132. Note the date on it. Note that it was 5 years BEFORE the trek west ("Days of '47").

Note that it mentions those who had already been given to JS.

Now if the D&C is not an "Official Church Source" I don't know what is.

battlebruise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Some will say this was done
> to protect and care for these widows and while
> that was part of it the truth was that in order
> for the church to progress it needed to grow and
> to do that people needed to be born. You can take
> that as you want to but that is the true story.

> Well, this is too easy huh? I get the impression
> that he does not want to continue the discussion.
> Thoughts???
>
> BB

That's all fine and dandy if it was to take care of widows <sarcasm>, but my question is, how does one take care of 33 widows? And a 14 and 16-year-old widow? But how? You'd have to be pretty rich to take care of that many destitute women, whether it be 2 or 3 or 33.

Plus these marriages were not legal marriages, so technically these women were still single (widowed). Not sure how a "spiritual" marriage changes this.

How can anyone say the marriages were only spiritual and no sex and then say "people needed to be born" "in order to progress the church?"

<Scratching head>

The claim that the church needed to grow, so more children needed to be born, is stupid. Women can only reproduce so fast. Getting nine women pregnant isn't going to produce a baby in one month. Nine polygamous women will spit out babies no faster than nine monogamous women.

The biggest victim of his lies is himself.

He will not be able to support a single one of his claims with any historically reliable documentaton or any official publication of the Church. In other words, his own assertions miserably fail to meet the standards of evidence he attempted to apply to you and you can be sure he knows it. He's a scared TBM who, deep down, knows that his faith in Mormonism has been erected on a flawed foundation because he obviously doesn't even know the most basic historical facts about his own religion. I wonder if he got his testimony from a glove. ;o)

I agree with Gorspel Dacktrin's last comment. I see no need to continue the debate, he is a scared little TBM. So I ended our email exchange with this statement:

When you have never know anything different in your life, one tends to defend the undefinable. Many people still to this day think the likes of Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert are true Christians, even after their debauchery and sexual exploits were made public. They simply ignore the facts and go right on believing. Nothing really changes with time. In Joseph Smith's day people did and thought much the same way. So, I say go right on believing what you like. The truth will forever be there waiting for you if you wish to find it. Best of luck to you young man in your future.

BB

Good point. But that doesn't mean it doesn't still feel good to bitch about his robotic tendencies ;-)

You might want to ask him if he thinks keeping the 10 commandments has any relevance at all anymore? Giving a false testimony is otherwise know as bearing false witness, even if we would prefer our fantasy was fact. If JS was god's prophet, and an apostle of JC, then by not holding up what the teachings were at the time is nothing more than denying the divinity of that same JC.

Say: "No. But he DID borrow the wives of other men when Joseph had sent them on missions. What a hero he was to 'help' out like that!"

Wait a minute.. he's acknowledging that BY was a polygamist but not JS? What the hell does it matter? If he's denying JS's polygamy out of embarrassment, or because he thinks polygamy is bad, he's still admitting that the church did something bad/wrong/embarrassing.

And to me, something of that gravity that was decided by the upper echelons of the church being bad, means the whole LDS church concept is invalid. Multiple references in church materials/histories prophesy that 'the prophet will never lead you astray'.. if they lead you down a path that you think is wrong/immoral.. but they'll never lead you astray, then....?

Preparing for stroke in 3.. 2.. 1..

F^#$ing idiot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2011 02:48AM by drewmeister.

...that if JS actually practiced polygamy, the the modern church he's devoted to has been lying by omission when it portrays JS as monogamous. And if the church lies about that, then what else is it lying about? Oh, the horror!

From a post I did last year:

The LDS Church's section summary for D&C 132, the 'revelation' on polygamy written (down) by JS just over 166 years ago, says:

"Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831."

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132)

According to LDS scripture, two key polygamy "principles" were:

i. A Mormon priesthood holder could desire and marry only virgins who were "vowed to no other man" (i.e., not betrothed to a fiancée, or married).
ii. The first wife (Emma, in JS' case) had to give her consent to the plural marriage.

The scripture in question was D&C 132:61:

"And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else."

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/61#61)

In the case of 11 women that 'prophet' and Mormon Church president Joseph Smith made his plural wives, they were already vowed to their husband, and as married women, certainly not virgins (ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/).

"...for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else." The 11 women belonged to their husband.

JS committed adultery at least 11 times (12, actually, when you include his extra-marital affair with teenager Fanny Alger, servant girl in the Smith home; ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/02-FannyAlger.htm).

The LDS Church has a partial list of the married women, single women, and teenage girls that JS made his plural wives on the church's genealogy website at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

Enter Smith's first and last name, birth year (1805) and birth place (Vermont, United States). Click on Search. Then click on the underlined Joseph Smith (Ancestral File 1). Scroll down to see the partial list of his plural wives. Note when he (at age 37) married Helen Mar Kimball (May 1843) and her age by clicking on her name (she was just 14).

JS' marriage to Fanny Alger can be viewed on the church's FamilySearch.org website by entering her first and last name, marriage year to JS (1835) and selecting "United States" and "Ohio" from the drop-down menus, and clicking on Search, then continuing from there.

Why did Joseph Smith make married women his plural wives - committing adultery in the process - when the Lord forbade it, and did so not just once or twice, but 11 times? Why wasn't he excommunicated for adultery?

The Mormon Church and LDS 'prophets' have taught for generations that adultery is a 'sin' next to murder and any church member who has committed adultery does not have the Holy Ghost with him/her and cannot receive revelation from God.

JS disobeyed the 'revealed' word of God (directly to him, no less) every time he desired, pursued and married a married Mormon woman. In the case of at least one of them, Sylvia Lyon (married to Windsor Lyon), JS fathered her daughter:

“On January 27, 1844 her [Sylvia’s] only surviving child, Philofreen, also died. At this time, Sylvia was eight months pregnant with her fourth child, Josephine Rosetta Lyon. Josephine later wrote, “Just prior to my mothers death in 1882 she called me to her bedside and told me that her days were numbered and before she passed away from mortality she desired to tell me something which she had kept as an entire secret from me and from all others but which she now desired to communicate to me. She then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith”. (ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/08-SylviaSessionsLyon.htm)

In May 1843, JS made a 14-year-old, two 17-year-olds and a 19-year-old his plural wives. The 14-year-old, Helen Mar Kimball, was his youngest-yet plural wife, as the genealogy data on the list of JS' plural wives on FamilySearch.org shows.

One wonders why, of all the single women in Nauvoo who were in their 20s and 30s, JS pursued and married teenage girls young enough to be his daughters and other men's wives.

On July 12, 1843, just two months after JS married the teenage girls mentioned above, he wrote down a 'divine' death threat ("threat of destruction") directed at his first and only legal wife, Emma (who was Relief Society president) if she didn't accept his plural wives, remain with him, "cleave unto" him, and accept polygamy. D&C 132:52 and 54:

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those [plural wives] that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure [virgins] before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law [polygamy].

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/52#54)

How extraordinarily convenient for JS that the Lord was willing to turn a blind eye to his adultery (no rebuke, no revelation that he should be excommunicated), and back him up in his practice of polygamy by threatening to kill (destroy) Emma if she didn't get on JS' polygamy 'wagon' pronto!

According to the 'revelation' on polygamy that JS wrote down on July 12, 1843, the reason for plural marriage was to get virgins pregnant so that they would bear children, thereby increasing God’s glory:

“But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.”

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/63#63)

In JS' day, the only way for Mormon women and teenage girls to "bear the souls of men" was to become pregnant through sexual intercourse (human artificial insemination wasn't developed until the 1940s).

Gaining access to females who could "multiply and replenish the earth" was important to JS. In the case of 16-year-old Lucy Walker, whose mother died after the Walker family converted to Mormonism and moved to Nauvoo in the spring of 1841, he separated the teenage girl from her father (by sending him away on a 2-year mission to the Eastern United States) and her surviving siblings (her sister, Lydia, had died only months before of “brain fever”) by placing her siblings with families in Nauvoo and ‘inviting’ the unsuspecting girl to live in the home of ‘the Prophet’ (himself).

“While living in the Smith home, Lucy remembers: “In the year 1842 President Joseph Smith sought an interview with me, and said, ‘I have a message for you, I have been commanded of God to take another wife, and you are the woman.’ My astonishment knew no bounds. This announcement was indeed a thunderbolt to me...He asked me if I believed him to be a Prophet of God. ‘Most assuredly I do I replied.’...He fully Explained to me the principle of plural or celestial marriage. Said this principle was again to be restored for the benefit of the human family. That it would prove an everlasting blessing to my father’s house.”

“What do you have to Say?” Joseph asked. “Nothing” Lucy replied, “How could I speak, or what would I say?” Joseph encouraged her to pray: “tempted and tortured beyond endureance until life was not desirable. Oh that the grave would kindly receive me that I might find rest on the bosom of my dear mother...Why – Why Should I be chosen from among thy daughters, Father I am only a child in years and experience. No mother to council; no father near to tell me what to do, in this trying hour. Oh let this bitter cup pass. And thus I prayed in the agony of my soul.”

Joseph told Lucy that the marriage would have to be secret, but that he would acknowledge her as his wife, “beyond the Rocky Mountains”. He then gave Lucy an ultimatum, “It is a command of God to you. I will give you untill to-morrow to decide this matter. If you reject this message the gate will be closed forever against you.”

“Lucy married Joseph on May 1, 1843. At the time, Emma was in St. Louis buying supplies for the Nauvoo hotel. Lucy remembers, “Emma Smith was not present and she did not consent to the marriage; she did not know anything about it at all.”’ (ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/23-LucyWalker.htm)

Not informing Emma of his latest plural marriage and first obtaining Emma’s consent was a violation of the Lord’s commandment to JS: “…if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent...for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.”

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/61#61).

Secretly marrying Lucy Walker was not the first time that JS did not obtain Emma’s consent (she discovered her husband and teenage servant girl Fanny Alger having sex in the barn and complained to Mormon Apostle Oliver Cowdery, Joseph’s second cousin and BoM scribe, about her husband’s extra-marital affair; Fanny was sent away by Emma because the teenage girl was “was unable to conceal the consequences of her celestial relation with the prophet”, in other words, Fanny’s swelling womb; ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/02-FannyAlger.htm).

The church gets alot of mileage from the ignorance and naivity, and obstinance, of people like that.
This guy is still at a freshman seminary level saying that polygamy was to take care of the widows of martyrs and wasn't even sexual, and that no minors were involved.
I think it's no wonder the church is wary of apologetics, because they serve to confirm the primary sources before spinning them, and the church depends, to a large extent, on it's members not knowing about the controversies in the first place.
It is tiresome, I admit, when a novice's method is to just say "liar".

The respected LDS historian R. Bushman in Rough Stone Rolling wrote:

"Partly to maintain secrecy, Joseph could not have spent much time with [Louisa] Beaman or any of the women he married. He never gathered his wives into a household--as his Utah followers later did--or accompanied them to public events. Close relationships were further curtailed by business. Joseph had to look after Emma and the children, manage the Church, govern the city, and evade the extradition officers from Missouri. As the marriages increased, there were fewer and fewer opportunities for seeing each wife. Even so, nothing indicates that sexual relations were left out of plural marriages" (Richard Lyman Bushman, Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling [New York: Knopf, 2005], 438-39).

Also in the book, Bushman counts that Joseph Smith had between 28 and 33 wives, and that at least 10 of them were under 20, and he admits that some of them were in fact already married.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2011 12:24PM by Jesus Smith.

Actually, the church's website confirms Smith had polygamous wives:

"After God revealed the doctrine of plural marriage to Joseph Smith in 1831 and commanded him to live it, the Prophet, over a period of years, cautiously taught the doctrine to some close associates. Eventually, he and a small number of Church leaders entered into plural marriages in the early years of the Church."

http://lds.org/study/topics/polygamy-plural-marriage?lang=eng&query=polygamy

This PROVES that Joseph Smith practiced it. Ask your friend why he denied it.

...it doesn't fit with his personal version of Mormonism. Each member of the church has a custom made, personalized version of the church in their head. Most of them are absolutely certain the personal version is 100% the real church.