During one of my random thrift store book hunts I came across a first edition hardcover copy of Miracle of Forgiveness. Upon getting it home I found that it was riddled with notes written in the margins and on the chapter heading pages, and they were clearly written by someone so brainwashed that the Kool-Aid could drink him. Awesome stuff about parked cars being the territory of Satan and women in shorts being harlots. The cover has "D Kelly Ogden 1971" written in it, so I'm assuming these are his crazy ass notes. I googled the name and it looks like he's written some terrible looking books and is a teacher at BYU. Just wondering if anyone has any personal experience with the dude. Cause I've never laughed as hard as I did at his list of evils to avoid.

"The Koolaid could drink him" is one of the funniest things I've read in a while. Thanks for that!

wittyname Wrote:
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> "The Koolaid could drink him" is one of the
> funniest things I've read in a while. Thanks for
> that!

+1,000!!!

:) :) :)

Well, koolaid is what the washing is done with on Sunday, the day after the day we get ready for Sunday.

Shorts. Overalls. Manequins. Cartoon Cheetarah.

Damn she was hot.

LMAO....It's funny because true... People see sexual images in everything when they're super repressed, just as repressed homosexuals think everything is gay like Tinky-Winky and Bert and Ernie. Repressing something natural only makes you think about it more and it comes out in bizarre behaviours.

The new Cheetarah is super hot.

Weird. A scripture professor who is only semi-fluent in Hebrew and only dabbles in Greek and Aramaic.

Doesn't say where his degrees are from.

And isn't dumping your copy of the Miracle of Forgiveness pretty much grounds for getting ex'ed. I wonder if his bishop and department chair know about this.



http://religion.byu.edu/Kelly_Ogden

At a thrift store in a city of sin no less...

Maybe he thought his incredibly thorough notes on the percentage of youth that lose their purity in cars would save the purity of some girl shopping at Good Will. Instead it made me and my roommate laugh until we cried real tears.

Probably related to the guy that founded Ogden.

So if this guy had to live in the "Real World" (re: anything outside of YBU) he wouldn't know how to relate to a darn thing.

I'll give you 15 bucks for the book

No, sorry. I'm in love with this copy. It makes me happy.

Aren't we being a little judgemental here? Obviously you disagree. I've met him. He's a fine gentleman.

Here is his testimony on Mormon Scholars Testify. He LOVES the Bible but he REALLY LOVES the Book of Mormon. I don't think he has read either one since he does not seem to realize the differences between the two.

http://mormonscholarstestify.org/2566/d-kelly-ogden

Haha. What a toolbag. Here, for your reading enjoyment, is the text he wrote on the page after the index. This is just one page. The book is full of these gems. Oh, and he has ridiculously nice hand-writing.


SEXUAL SIN
-next to murder in seriousness
-chastity more precious than life

Most virtue lost IN CARS after dances, parties, etc. (parked cars weaken resistance)

Necking, petting, masturbation, homosexuality, pornography = sexual sins!
(working mothers warned - sexual allurement)

Thoughts lead to actions. don't rationalize! ("not so bad")

avoid steady dating

SEX IS SACRED - talk about it that way! (immodesty)

MAKE COVENANTS: "This I will do"
"This I will not do"

forgiveness is very possible; "there must be tears and genuine change of heart" p353

"a man cannot escape the consequences of sin" p 141

"there is a healing balm in tears for the humble soul" p 160

one must have the opportunity of committing wrong in order to be really repentant p 168

"perhaps he [satan] might try much harder to claim men who are likely to be his greatest opposition, men in high places who could persuade many others not to become servants of satan" p 175

"WE ARE NOT TAUGHT FRANKLY ENOUGH. WE NEED WARNINGS--FRANK WARNINGS" p 231

no single person or non LDS can be exalted p 245-7

prosperity of the wicked is temporary...chap 20

"that man who resists temptation and lives without sin is far better off than the man who has fallen, no matter how repentant the latter may be" p 357

I personally know Brother Ogden. He has forgotten more more about life life and religion than you will ever come close to knowing. You are slandering a great man. And doing it just to be funny, you all think you are so smart. He has spent a lifetime knowing his God. He deserves respect whether you agree with him or not. At least he treats people with dignity. Ask yourselves if what you are doing here is any more intelligent or even Christian. He is a great man. You don't even know him. You Googled him? That's tells me a lot. You are Hypocrites!

As you have now experienced, judging people is fun!

Lol!

Ur judgemental Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I personally know Brother Ogden. He has forgotten
> more more about life life and religion than you
> will ever come close to knowing.

Since you *don't* know any of US, you can't honestly make any such claim. Nice start, lying right off the bat.

> You are
> slandering a great man. And doing it just to be
> funny, you all think you are so smart.

Quoting his own notes he wrote himself: not slander. Dictionaries exist -- use them.

> He has
> spent a lifetime knowing his God.

You don't seem to know the difference between belief and knowledge. He doesn't "know" anybody's god, he beliefs in one for which there is no evidence of any kind. That's irrational and rather silly.

> He deserves
> respect whether you agree with him or not.

Respect has to be earned; he hasn't earned mine.

> At
> least he treats people with dignity. Ask
> yourselves if what you are doing here is any more
> intelligent or even Christian.

I have no idea how he treats people -- his notes don't indicate any such "dignity," though. And yes, criticism of things people have written IS "intelligent." Since I'm not a christian, I don't care if it's that or not.

> He is a great man.
> You don't even know him. You Googled him? That's
> tells me a lot. You are Hypocrites!

I won't take your word for him being a "great man," since you don't seem to have the kind of knowledge or rational thinking that would lead you to reach reliable conclusions.
But at any rate, not knowing him personally doesn't imply any hypocrisy -- again, dictionaries exist, you should use them.

Yes, yes, I know -- you're oh so enamored of this guy for his great faith in the fraudulent cult of mormonism. Good for you. We're not.

Holy crap, TBMs are just… dumb.

"He has forgotten more more about life life"

Well, it's clear you don't know much about writing. To put in terms you might understand, "you don't know much much about writing writing."


"He deserves respect whether you agree with him or not."

No he doesn't. Neither do you, for that matter.


"You Googled him? That's tells me a lot."

Actually, we didn't. You did, and that's how you found us.


"You are Hypocrites!"

You're an imbecile. Even worse, you're a Mormon imbecile. You can go back to your playpen.

By his own fricking hand no less.

got heavy, out in the back seat of my sixty chevy." I knew it! Bob Seger is a Prophet of God.

Legal question: who owns the "intellectual property" (ha) of the notes in a tossed/recycled book?

I am not a lawyer (please consult one if you need an actual legal opinion), but I believe that this type of issue is pretty settled.

The author owns the intellectual property (i.e. the copyright on the wording) unless (s)he has contractually ceded it to someone else.

The owner of the book owns only the physical artifact.

I wouldn't be surprised if he knew we were discussing this here, using his name and being so specific, if he didn't claim that the book was stolen and then sue to get it back. Then burnt it, once it was in his possession.

What he chose to emphasize and remember from that text, sounds THAT nuts.

Why would he burn it? I doubt he sees anything even slightly wrong with his notes. He probably considers them highly enlightened.

It doesn't say where he got his degrees. I'm gonna guess BYU.

He is one of the guys that sits at the table and they talk about the mormon scriptures, especially the book of mormon on KBYU. They act as if they are talking about real people and real events. It cracks me up. For entertainment value I sometimes watch for a few minutes, then I can't take it anymore to see grown men and women act like they are about 8 years old in primary.

"Brother Ogden, notice how Nephi says here...blah blah blah"

Hahahahaha! Funny and sad to watch.

He was a kid when he made those notes.

Most of us here could have written such lame notes at some point in our lives as happy little TBMS.

Let's quit the moral superiority crap, OK? ;o))



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 09:11AM by matt.

Even at my most TBM I wouldn't have written that stuff.

I had head about the book and thought i'd give it a read (TBM at the time). I was so disgusted that anyone would even presume to make so many sick rules and hoops to jump through if there was any hope for you at all. The writer seemed to overlook the atonement. He rewrote all the rules to fit his ideas.

I wonder how many people took their own lives or live in misery and hopelessness after reading that piece of garbage.

I threw the book out and told my opinion about it to any mormon who would listen.

He was one of the beloved instructors at the BYU semester abroad program in the 80s. My wife has worshipped this guy since she spent a few months with him there.

She insisted while we were dating that I take his class at BYU. He prattled on one day about the evil of priestcraft and, I kid you not, finished day with a pitch for his newest book "Now available at the bookstore." I asked in a loud voice "How is you asking us to buy your book non priestcraft?"

I got a D in his class.

Sorry. Semester abroad in Jerusalem.

Don't leave us hanging! What was his response?

The "D".

Jeez you're old!

aw, c'mon! I mean right then and there! Even if it was just a glare, how stern and how long a glare? Were there any quickly muffled titters? Did Ogden "Wormstrum!" say anything?

not to mention that you're only as old as you feel...which is ancient.

He glared at me. Said nothing. It was the end of class. He never called on me again the rest of the semester (it was a summer block class so we were stuck in there for a long time together but it was a massive class).

He knew who I was too and that I was about to marry one of his favorite students. I'm sure he'll get his revenge in the eternities as he'd be my wife's first or second pick for whom she'd be a polygamous wife. Actually, I think he's dropped to third place at this time.

http://ldsmag.com/but-this-i-do-know/

"The true Church of Jesus Christ should manifest considerable fruits. And it does. It is the greatest organization on this earth.

The Church and its people are leaders in all the world regarding genealogical research, family history, and Temple work (getting the teachings and the ordinances to all souls—on both sides of the veil).

We are leaders in all the world in doing missionary work, the work of the divine Mission, in bringing people to Christ.

We are leaders in worldwide humanitarian work, and in many varieties of volunteerism.

We are leaders in education: of children, of youth (seminaries and institutes of religion), and in continuing education for adults. Some of the greatest institutions of higher learning in America are the combined Brigham Young Universities.

The Church and its people are leaders in uses of technology, especially through films, videos, apps, and other technologies that have global circulation.

The Church is the most effective institution on earth for wise use of funds, building numerous Temples, meetinghouses, educational buildings, and other structures, all completed and dedicated without debt."

But he doesn't know these things.

"As everyone else, I have questions. For instance, why plural marriage was practiced for a time, and then discontinued. I know some reasons, but I don’t know all.

And why Joseph Smith had a number of other women, including teenagers, sealed to him—I don’t know.

Why a restriction was placed on blacks holding the priesthood for a time, then the ban was withdrawn—I don’t know the reasons."

You read a deliberately defaming thread like this and then you won't need to wonder why Eric K. get threats of lawsuits on a regular basis.

Good going all you highly scientifically trained, deeply critical thinkers out there. Great thread!

Too bad "being smug" isn't actionable.

Defamation has a very specific legal definition. This isn't even close to defamation. You might be one of those Americans who cries about the Constitution but have never read the Bill of Rights, First Fucking Amendment. Cry because I cursed, then sue me in court. Hahaha

I actually somewhat 'knew' Kelly in high school. He appeared to be an above average student.

However, I just scanned his BoM book. I sincerely agree he is a 'Mormon Scholar' ----- paid a fat pay check by LDS inc. to continue to cover the 'truth'.

His 'Mormon scholar lack of integrity' is clearly displayed in his books. I guess it makes a difference on how 'scholarly and truthful' one is when his whole career and pay check depends on LDS inc.

These books were written before LDS inc. had to tell the truth about the translation.

However, Kelly, being a 'true Mormon scholar' certainly didn't let the 'truth' out of the bag in his BoM books ----- integrity lacking???? The preface 'infers' the majority of translation required a 'curtain' to conceal the plates!!!! He doesn't mention the rock in the hat at all ----- surprising??? Really Kelly????? Is that what 'most' of the accounts of the 'translation' indicate???? Is that what LDS inc. has admitted????

I agree why 'critique' a 'true Mormon scholar' completely dependent on lds inc. and expect anything less than what he has demonstrated???

Wow, this topic pulled a few defenders from the shadows! That makes a great read! I guess in the end just learn from the mistakes of others. Don't put your name in books filled with BS! Problem solved.

For those of you who were not teenagers in the early 70s let me give you a history lesson. If you confessed one of the sexual sins to your bishop you were presented with your own copy of "The Miracle of Forgiveness". So this is how the scenario played out ... you went off to the ward house for an interview, and then spent a very uncomfortable 40 minutes with your bald bishop asking probing questions about things you would rather not discuss, then he presents you with SWK's TMOF book. Ok you get home with the book and your Sister screams look Bishop XXXX has given Hedning his own Miracle of Forgiveness, what did you do, was with Carol or Shirley or Karen?

and so I want to know what did Bro Ogden do to merit his own copy in 1971?

I bet he was a human being!! The nerve!

Based on my 'memory' Kelly was not into athletics, or anything except being a student.

He was actually older and a friend of a friend. I would say there was no way he 'earned' the book from having a 'harlot' girlfriend where I went to school. He probably read it for 'extra credit' in seminary!

There was only a few (1 or 2) 'pregnant' girls in my high school at that time so highly unlikely that Kelly had a 'steady girlfriend'. Never seen him with a girl in the hall ways or at lunch.