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Posted by: lurking ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 10:12AM

I know Utah has a high suicide rate and a high consumption of prozac etc.

Which sector of people in Utah make the largest percentage of suicides in Utah?Is it inactive Mormons or gay Mormons?

Mormon apologists claim the suicide rate for active church attending mormons is considerably below non church attending Mormons,or they will say non mormons in Utah are to blame for any bad statistics on suicide for Utah.

Do you people here know of many cases in Utah of active church attending Mormons who are the ideal Mormon,yet became depressed and committed suicide while they were active in the church?Do you know of any active devoted Mormon who succumbed to suicide outside of Utah wherever Mormons are?

Do you think there is enough evidence to show active church going Mormons contribute to the high suicide statistics in Utah or nearby states?

I was always depressed an an active Mormon.

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Posted by: Tabula Rasa ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 10:23AM

In short, maybe. Utah ranks #11 in per-capita suicides in the US with 0.136/1000. Idaho is #8. Wyoming is #1 with 0.214/1000 and NY is #50 with 0.061/100. Doesn't address the question of "active members" but with 72% of Utah being mormon, it's in the ballpark.


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Posted by: Jim Huston ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 10:45AM

Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24,1249,635201873,00.html

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Posted by: Comfortably Numb ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 10:29AM

were men struggling with being gay who didn't know that they were not alone and saw no other way out of their misery.

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Posted by: weeder ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 10:34AM

... a very active TBM man killed himself with a gun on the side of his house wearing his full temple get up!!!

They also buried him full temple garb (gotta keep up apperances, dontcha know).

Anyway, I've tried to figure out what must have gone through his head just before offing himself: "Ummm, gee I better be properly dressed to meet my maker!?!?"

I could never quite figure it out, and as a TBM myself thought it so strange ... even the temple garb in the coffin I thought a bit dishonest with the gospel plan.

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Posted by: dath jesus ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 01:20PM

well, maybe he was trying to test the new bullet proof temple clothing and garments.

did he get his money back?

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Posted by: NeatNewName ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 10:38AM

I had a family member commit suicide who was very active. He had cancer that was so painful he couldn't bear it any more.

Honestly, I think many people who commit suicide are at a point where the pain of living simply is intolerable....for whatever reason. Even if the death was non-necessarily intended (i.e. drug overdose), pain drove the person to the drug.

Yes, suicide affects those who remain behind terribly. But in this day and age, I really think most people understand dark despair which drives one over the edge, and don't judge.

No one ever says at a suicide's funeral that they can't be buried in hallowed ground, or that they are going to hell. I'm grateful for that.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 10:46AM

The preferential treatment that active mormons get in almost every sector of Utah life has been the cause of much bitterness among non church attending mormons. Growing up in the morridor it was easy to see and sure to experience, that the returned missionaries got jobs right off the bat while jackmos got nothing but the crap jobs. Even in your own neighborhood, the active members had the invites to the blockparty picnics and while the inactives were welcome to join in, but always made to feel like the redheaded stepchild.

It is easy to see why the suicide rates are higher for inactives than for actives. Despite what members say, it is not because they don't have the "gospel" in their lives, it is because they are treated like crap by their holier-than-thou neighbors, family, employers and mormon society in general.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:12AM

family, employers and mormon society in general.”

Because the operative principle in the Morridor is, “Be true to yourself and we will shun you, or be who you are not and we will accept and welcome you.”

Or commit suicide to avoid this awful choice.

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Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:00AM

My sister was a devout, temple-worthy Mormon, married to an equally devout Mormon husband, with four adult children and a number of grandchildren. She committed suicide a few years ago.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:10AM

Please post the link if you have it! I am sure there are people on this board who missed it the first time around and would appreciate hearing your story now.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2011 11:13AM by WiserWomanNow.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 12:04PM

I wish I had sufficient words of comfort.

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Posted by: vasalissasdoll ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:04AM

I've been in wards where two active Mormons committed suicide...I'm pretty sure I told the horrible story about the man who left behind his Korean wife and kids on here before.

I've also watched my cousin, a very talented painter, struggle with depression and suicide attempts. He's not the only one that there are family rumors about, either... just the one I've known best.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:06AM

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2011 11:13AM by WiserWomanNow.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:20AM

There can also be a certain desperation in trying to live the impossible standards of the church. A friend of mine had her LDS MIL commit suicide and her SIL (who married her husband's brother) attempt it. My friend actually divorced her husband. The men in this family either were attracted to women with emotional issues or drove the women to despair.

Conversely, I've been to two funerals where the LDS husband committed suicide because they couldn't keep up the image or deal with failure. At least, that is what the family told people.

This occurs outside the church too but the extra push for perfection and responsibility for "saving" others and focus on image has to be a factor in pushing a person over the edge.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2011 11:21AM by CA girl.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:23AM

Leaving Mormonism can be immensely stressful, as evidenced by many of the stories we read here. For those people who have families that are going to apply as much pressure as possible to prevent them from leaving, they have to be really miserable within Mormonism to feel that facing all the family/neighbor pressure is less painful than staying in.

Conclusion, a fair chunk of the people that leave Mormonism are stressed out at levels that would stun an elephant. So yeah, some of them might snap and commit suicide. It was Mormonism, directly and indirectly, that was making them suicidal. Leaving was an attempt to make the pain stop. Unfortunately, family and friends often try to rachet up the pain of leaving, in order to get them to opt for the pain of staying within Mormonism instead.

The dietary health/weight/longevity tables used to suffer from a similar bias. Being very heavy correlates with shorter life span, but being very thin also correlated strongly with decreased lifespan, and the "ideal healthy weight" was the one that matched to the longest lifespan.

Trouble was, it dawned on the actuaries that people dying of cancer tended to lose a lot of weight, then die. This made it look statistically like being thin shortened your life, when in fact being thin was the result of having a terminal disease, not the cause of a person's shortened life.

When they corrected for this bias, ideal healthy weights dropped, which meant those of us who needed to drop a few pounds needed to drop a few more. :(

Back to my point. Leaving Mormonism doesn't make you more suicidal. Mormonism was making you suicidal, and that's why you left. Leaving was not the cause of the depression. It was the result.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2011 11:28AM by Brother Of Jerry.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:31AM

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Posted by: Delightsome White Boy ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:32AM

The lds church I grew up in taught that suicide was a one way ticket to hell for ETERNITY. Active members would rather live in hell with their soothing prescription drugs for their short trial period that they have on earth than risk outerdarkness forever.

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Posted by: Now a Gentile ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:40AM

I was taught about the same thing and yet was also told that we would commit suicide just to get into the "lower kingdom" (terrestrial?) because it was so wonderful.

In my area there have been two suicides I know of, one was a return missionary and the other was a husband and father. As with any suicide, it is still sad.

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Posted by: elcid ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:48AM

We had an active member committ suicide in my northern Utah ward a couple of years ago. Have heard of others, all active Mormons. The high number surely includes many LDS people and some non-LDS people. I'd bet it blends in without a jump either way when you go from TBM to non-Mormon in Utah. The economy is shitsville here and that stresses alot of people out. No way out or up. Stuck. Depressed. Large family. Lots of expectations from your family and church.


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Posted by: Delightsome White Boy ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 12:06PM

Now a Gentile,
you are right. I heard the terrestrial kingdom deal the most and that people would kill themselves to get there. The outerdarrkness bit was jus from a leader or two.

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Posted by: notmyrealname ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 02:16PM

I have been suicidal most of my life, tried to hang myself as a teenager and was saved by my little brother. I have set on the edge of the bed with the gun in my mouth and the only reason I did not pull the trigger was I did not want my wife to have to clean up the mess. I finally overcame the urge through self help, therapy, lots of introspection, and finally, going to a prostitute. I know that sounds wacko but since I have done that single deed I am a better husband, father, lover, and I know that I have no reason to commit suicide. It is not guilt either. It was a release I needed, I have no desire to do it again, and my wife will never know. But I have to tell someone. So I told all of you. My healing is complete.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 02:25PM

It will probably continue to be a difficult question to answer. Polls include such things as: people who identify as Mormon, which could mean anything from a TBM to a Jack Mormon, to someone who was born into a Mormon family. In Utah, as of 2004, those in that group were:" 62.4% with every county showing a decrease." (Edit - forgot the link to the article in the Salt Lake Tribune)

So, with that in mind, I can speak from nearly 40 years of experience, mostly in CA. I know of only a couple of members who committed suicide (in CA), in that entire time. Could there have been more that we didn't know about? Sure.

In each case, there were a lot of problems that were not addressed or were unable to be addressed. Depression and grieving seem to be the main issues. But, I don't believe any of us know the real reasons.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2011 02:36PM by SusieQ#1.

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Posted by: Twinker ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 02:40PM

It is a very difficult one to evaluate because depressed people tend to commit suicide. Still there are warnings on most anti-depressants to get to a doctor if you experience suicidal ideation.

It is conceivable that some of the suicides could be those whose suicidal ideation got stronger with the medication. And with higher use of antidepressants in Utah, that would also up the number of suicides.

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Posted by: anon2day ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 05:44PM

three on my block. All males

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Posted by: m ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 09:55PM

anon2day Wrote:
> three on my block. All males

Just to clarify in this case all adult men ...

married mo's and one was a super Mo in
one of the Lards Universities.
Shunning and guilt were part of their demise.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 07:13PM

My SIL shot himself to death, age upper 30's. Fully active, devout tbm LDS, wife and six kids.

Yes, active members do kill themselves.

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Posted by: xophor ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 07:38PM

Apart from all the other stresses that life dishes out, I'm certain that the young male suicides are primarily because they're gay. Gay + LDS = suicidal tendencies. It's a proven formula. It's why I'll probably off myself once I get to the point where life has nothing left to offer. But not until my mom is gone...can't lay that one on her no matter how practical and efficient a planned exit can be.

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Posted by: robertb ( )
Date: September 09, 2011 12:45AM

xophor Wrote:

> why I'll probably off myself once I get to the
> point where life has nothing left to offer. But
> not until my mom is gone...can't lay that one on
> her no matter how practical and efficient a
> planned exit can be.

I hope you will find life offering you things--and you receiving them and offering back--for many, many years to come. A good therapist can help with your depression.

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Posted by: neverconverted ( )
Date: September 08, 2011 11:53PM

your Mom is gone...not ever. I know that sometimes the thought of peace is a very seductive idea, but I would think leaving the Church and being who you are, while terrifying, may be the peace you seek.

Just know that, there are people who will support you, love you, want you and need you.

Why give the assholes the satisfaction of your demise? If you leave the Church or leave the earth, they're still going to say it's because you weren't faithful enough. Either way, they're gonna talk.

Give them something to talk about..about how you've never been happier. Well, they won't say that, but you will. F*&k em..take control of your life back.

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Posted by: robertb ( )
Date: September 09, 2011 12:17AM

Elevated Suicide Risk for Young Less-Active and Non-Mormon Males in Utah

A BYU article touted a study done by its researchers showing that church activity is protective for young Utah males in regard to suicide. The study, “Suicide Rates and Religious Commitment in Young Adult Males in Utah” Table 2, American Journal of Epidemiology Vol. 155, No. 5 : 413-419, indeed shows that young Mormon who active in the Mormon Church have a lower suicide rate than average.

As is so often the case when the Lord’s University announces good news for its sponsoring church, there was a darker side left unsaid. When I read the study, I noted the researchers also provided data showing higher than average suicide rates for Utah less-active and non-Mormon males in the same age ranges.

To see if the higher suicide rates are a regional phenomenon, as asserted by apologists, or something peculiar to Utah, I used the Center for Disease Control WISQARS data to compare the study data with the suicide rates of males in the same age range during the same period in the surrounding Mountain States of Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, and Wyoming.

What I found was not only do non-Mormons and the less-actives in Utah kill themselves at greater rates than active Utah males in the same age ranges, but they kill themselves at significantly higher rates when compared to males in the surrounding Mountains States. It seems there is something peculiar about Utah that makes young less-active Mormon and non-Mormon males want to kill themselves.

Males 15-19 (suicides per 100,000)
US Average: 17.44
Mountain States Average: 33.09
Utah LDS Active: 17.40
Utah LDS Less Active: 57.11
Utah Nonmember: 59.69

Males 20-24 (suicides per 100, 000)
US Average: 27.69
Utah LDS Active: 11.19
Utah LDS Less Active: 58.16
Utah Nonmember: 70.12

Males 25-29 (suicides per 100, 000)
US Average: 25.70
Mountain States Average: 39.60
Utah LDS Active: 8.58
Utah LDS less active: 65.55
Utah Nonmember: 39.14

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Posted by: WinksWinks ( )
Date: September 09, 2011 12:57AM

Dude, I think that was my uncle's paper. :D

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Posted by: nomomomo ( )
Date: September 09, 2011 12:33AM

I tried to kill myself 3 times while an active member. It has only been since I left that I have been able to overcome that feeling of being dead and wanting to leave everythign and everyone.

I am thankful I didn't succeed. I cant even imagine not being here for my son, watching him grow and get injured playing football, seeing him grow into a teen....

The church was part of my problem. I don't feel the need to meet someone else's unrealistic expectations anymore, just my own. And when I don't I don't hate myself, just try again. No perfection expected.

All my mo friends have someone or more than one in their wards that have commited suicide. Some young, some fathers.....Very sad. Such incredible pressure

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