Am I the only one who is catching a whiff from the courthouse?

It seems to me this girl crawled out her window because an adult priesthood holder told her to--and she had been conditioned from birth to obey. So she did.

I do not doubt that her experience was horrifying and that there should be a conviction and long jail senctence--but doe anyone besides me think that maybe, just maybe her parents and the CoJCoLDS set her up?

nwmcare Wrote:
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> ...but doe anyone besides me think
> that maybe, just maybe her parents and the
> CoJCoLDS set her up?

Oh, yes.

Absolutely.

YES.

YES, YES, YES, YOU ARE CORRECT!

I have said it many times before. She was the "chosen righteous One". Boy, I understand that brainwashed mind set! I'm just grateful it never happened to me!

Yes, in fact this case was one of the reasons I resigned, as when she was found, there was a non-Mormon girl who was kidnapped not that far from me, but she was murdered by her kidnapper. I still think Elizabeth is being exploited by her parents and the church, as she was "allowed" to leave her mission to testify, while some other missionary would need a subpoena to leave. After all, most Mormon missionaries are stuck on their mission, even if a close family member dies.

I think the knife held up to her throat had more to do with it.

Based on her testimony, I doubt she gave any respect to whatever priesthood power he said he had. He is clearly a mental case and should remain locked up.

I always wonder if she asked the monster if he was LDS.

Someday, Elizabeth will realize she was set up, and she will leave her spaced-out parents and the mysogynistic, victim-blaming, abusive cult as well.

I don't think the mom was being a cheapskate. I think she honestly believed she was helping him by having him work for money instead of her just giving it to him. Naive? Yes, but she thought she was being charitable.

queenofdenial Wrote:
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> I don't think the mom was being a cheapskate. I
> think she honestly believed she was helping him by
> having him work for money instead of her just
> giving it to him. Naive? Yes, but she thought she
> was being charitable.

You know, my dad who was not a Mormon would do similar things. Fortunately we were luckier.

I have no doubt that this little Mormon girl would have gone right out the window with him up until I was about 30. Ugh.

No more.

But she has the support of the family and the church, she's on a mission, and the cameras are pointed directly at her.

Not to mention all the groups that are looking at her as the epitomy of 'victim' and feeling for her (and she does deserve empathy for the hell she was put through, make no mistake!)

To look at this objectively would mean minimalizing personal feelings and that is a near impossible task--this little girl is perfection personified--beautiful, intelligent, loved, and strong.

There is no hope.

I was a little TBM girl at her age and there is no way I would have bought into Mitchell's crap. She went with him because he had a knife at her neck and threatened to kill her and her family. I would have gone too and not because I thought he was a prophet. I wouldn't have believed that nonsense for one minute.I would have gone because I didn't want to die. Geez ! People, she was a kid. Give her a break.

She also had plenty of other times sans knife to escape and did not. Again, I really think she believed whatever nonsense he told her about being told by God or the Holy Spirit that she belonged to him.

nwmcare Wrote:
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> She also had plenty of other times sans knife to
> escape and did not. Again, I really think she
> believed whatever nonsense he told her about being
> told by God or the Holy Spirit that she belonged
> to him.



Have you ever heard of Patti Hearst? She was older and not a Mormon. In fact she was a bit of a rebel, was living with her boy friend etc. She also had plenty of chances to escape and didn't. It is called the Stockholm Syndrome and is common.

queenofdenial Wrote:
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> n/t

And she was told that if she tried to escape, he would kill her family. Perhaps ought to read her testimony. It is online. As far as believing he was a prophet, as a Mormon she would know better because GBH was prophet and he didn't dress like a hippy and take 14 year old girls as wives. As a Mormon, she wasn't old enough to date, let alone get married.She would have seen plenty of red flags. He was hardly a typical Mormon priesthood authority.

That's the facts!!!!! REALITY - folks. It's not about anything else but a HUGE threat!
Try it sometime, have someone wake you up during a sound sleep with a knife at your throat and see if you'll do as you are told!!!

queenofdenial Wrote:
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> n/t

Unless there was a clear opportunity for escape, I would go with him too. It beats having your throat slit or your familty killed in front of you.

Mary Katherine, now 18, recalled how she fell asleep with Elizabeth in the bed that they shared after Elizabeth read her the book “Ella Enchanted.” She testified she woke up to her sister getting out of the bed, and saw a man in the room. The man took Elizabeth into the bathroom, and had a knife, she testified.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50632306-76/smart-cook-yes-elizabeth.html.csp?page=2

The book “Ella Enchanted” is about a young girl who struggles to break the curse of obedience placed upon her by a fairy godmother.

Does anyone else see that as profoundly ironic?

No I don't agree.

"I do not doubt that her experience was horrifying and that there should be a conviction and long jail senctence--but doe anyone besides me think that maybe, just maybe her parents and the CoJCoLDS set her up?"

But I don't agree with a long jail sentence, I think a bullet between the eyes would do a nice job.

I heard here on the news he was singing hymns so he was removed from the court room. Which hymns was he singing?

Clarification: I am not denying that Elizabeth Smart is the victim of a horrifying crime. She very much is.

I am stating that she is the victim of a second, equally horrifying and more devastating crime: that of being set up by both her own family and her chuch by indoctrination.

Knife or no knife, she was intimidated by the priesthood authority and if that isn't recognized by the mainstream press, then why are they at the forefront of prosecuting Catholic priests on the very same grounds? Brainwashing is brainwashing. Period.

What part of the testimony are you basing this on? How are you making the link between her indoctrination and being kidnapped at knife point? Because I see no connection here.

nwmcare Wrote:
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> Clarification: I am not denying that Elizabeth
> Smart is the victim of a horrifying crime. She
> very much is.
>
> I am stating that she is the victim of a second,
> equally horrifying and more devastating crime:
> that of being set up by both her own family and
> her chuch by indoctrination.
>
> Knife or no knife, she was intimidated by the
> priesthood authority and if that isn't recognized
> by the mainstream press, then why are they at the
> forefront of prosecuting Catholic priests on the
> very same grounds? Brainwashing is brainwashing.
> Period.

So, are you saying she would have escaped or refused to go if she hadn't been a brainwashed TBM girl? HELLO SHE WS FORCED, SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE HE WAS A PROPHET AND SHE did BELIEVE IF SHE RAN AWAY HE WOULD KILL HER AND HER FAMILY. The results would have been the same regardless of her religion. Again, have you heard of Patti Hearst?

It's amazing that some of you would blame her "Mormon conditioning" on her actions. It could have been ANYONE non-Mormon, and she AND YOU would have done the same thing. She was 9-years old and she knew her life and possibly the life of her family was in danger.

Unbelievable!

I find this thread outrageous.

I feel that you lose credibility when you use her Mormon background as a scapegoat in this case.

There are hundreds of other things TSCC deserves to be blamed for.

I don't care what her beliefs are, ANY CHILD would have done the same thing.

As many have said, anyone at 14, Mormon or not, male or female, would have done the same with a knife at your throat and threatened with your family being killed.

If the Cult deserves any blame, it is for conditioning him from birth. Told how "special" he was as a priesthood holder. Told how individual members can receive revelation for themselves if they pray about it, etc. The Cult conditioned him (and others like him) to believe they are Prophets and go off and start their own religion and write their own revelations of God to them.

I was thinking the same thing.

Then, you couple HIS indoctrination with his metal illness and BOOM you have a recipe for evil.

Delusions and hallucinations based on religious beliefs are nearly impossible to unseat in the mentally ill.

The metal wing at UoU is spilling over with mentally ill TBM's whose religious upbringings have literally ruined their lives. This guy needs to be locked up forever.

queenofdenial Wrote:
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> I was thinking the same thing.
>
> Then, you couple HIS indoctrination with his metal
> illness and BOOM you have a recipe for evil.
>
> Delusions and hallucinations based on religious
> beliefs are nearly impossible to unseat in the
> mentally ill.
>
> The metal wing at UoU is spilling over with
> mentally ill TBM's whose religious upbringings
> have literally ruined their lives. This guy needs
> to be locked up forever.



Agreed. You might be able to make a case that the church has some blame in his case, but what happened to Elizabeth and how she reacted had a lot more to do with the knife and threats than it did with her religion. Victims of all beliefs go with kidnappers all the time because they have no choice.

You can only go so far. Yes, the accused is probably guilty of the crimes he is accused of. My question is: how quilty is the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints?

If you are not willing to acknowledge the guilt of religious conditioning, then you are not willing to acknowledge the psychological conditioning of particular societal belief systems.

I feel for Elizabeth Smart. What happened to her should not happen to anyone. It is wrong on any level and in any level--but in my societal conditioning. But I am not LDS--I grew up observing LDS and obtained a (post graduate) degree in psychology outside of religion.

What happened to Miss Smart goes beyond comprehension to the average person. It is indescribable; abhorrhant. But I still believe that, due to her religious and familial upbringing, she was set up. And it distresses me that there are young women out there that will fall victim to the same 'braimwashing'. That a priesthood holder has the last word.

I agree that TBM girls are brought up to believe that priesthood holders have the last word. It is wrong and lots of disgusting things happen because of it.

However, I do not believe it applies to this case.

Miss Smart DID NOT recognize HIM as a priesthood holder. She knew he was dangerous and crazy. She believed GBH was the prophet, not Mitchell.

Did she? That is not and will not ever come out in testimony, and that is my whole point!