My thread got shut down, just as I was trying to make a concluding remark. So, I thought I'd start a new one, just to tell everyone who commented what my conclusion is.

I definitely feel convinced that some fantasizing is going to be necessary for good sex, so I'm going to just accept that. Thanks for everyone reassuring me on the issue.

So my two options are lie or tell her my thoughts are private (she doesn't like that). Along with those, we could try sex counseling. If I tell her my thoughts are private too much, my lying is going to be less credible. So, to keep my options open, I'm going to try lying first, and I'm going to do it as well as I possibly can and be totally determined to never admit that I am. So that'll be an interesting experience.

Hopefully she doesn't ask, but I'll have a great lie prepared in advance in case she does.

I'm also going to suggest sex counseling as an option and see what she thinks about that.

Insisting on my privacy is an option I can keep open as a last resort, but hopefully I get comfortable with other options.

Thanks everyone for commenting on my other thread, I hope you have a great Thursday. Now back to work!

A few things here before you go:
First of all your sexuality and desires are normal. It's not attractive for one's partner to be insecure, repressed and controlling over your own sexuality. I'd be fantasizing about other people if I were in your position. :/

Secondly, masturbation is normal and healthy even when you're in an intimate relationship. Her to imply anything otherwise just shows her own hangups over the issue. If she's going to leave you because you masturbate then you should consider letting her so you may continue a perfectly normal and natural act without unnecessary shame or guilt.

Porn is tricky. She has a low self-esteem and you physically going out of your way to objectify women can be degrading to your wife. It hurts her feelings and that's normal and natural for most women to feel that way, especially in new relationships. Kudos to you for stopping.

I don't know why you think of it as 'lying' to your wife by telling her you don't think of other women. If you don't want to outright lie just avoid the question entirely by saying you love her, desire her above anyone else, and you fantasize about her all the time, ect. Avoid otherwise hurting her feelings. Telling her you think of other women is incredibly emotionally damaging to a young woman. With her already damaged self-esteem it will take her years and years to get over it. It has a profound effect on her sexuality and her ability to be intimate in her relationship with you. Try to be more sensitive to that in the future.

Hurting her feelings is not the same as being open and honest with your wife. You can be open and honest without running your mouth off about things that damage your relationship and hurt your wife. :/ I haven't been in a relationship where I didn't fantasize about other men at some point, even during sex. I would never ever tell my partner this because I wanted put his needs before my own in this regard. If I asked a guy this question I'd expect him to lie to me (which is why I don't ask it). If he didn't lie I'd probably end up leaving him for not being considerate of my feelings. It falls in the realm of not comparing partners or discussing past sexual encounters with your current partner. It's just not cool. Don't do it.

Rather than lying, why don't you rehearse and prepare some vague generalities that she might like hearing?

A. I don't think she's going to be able to loosen up her uptight-ness enough to feel comfortable talking to a sex counselor, although I think she would benefit greatly. I also think she would benefit greatly from doing some self-esteem work and I'd recommend "The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem" (book comes with a workbook) by Nathaniel Brandon (spelling dubious). I also think that introducing toys or fantasy role-playing might be a bit much for her at this point. Maybe start up those discussions in a few years when you're both more comfortable and experienced with each other. Usually, that sort of thing becomes a part of the sexual repertoire to keep things sparking after they get a bit boring. You two are still learning about sex (what you like, what you don't) and so I just don't think you're there yet.

B. I don't think lying is really a great idea because she might be able to tell if you're lying and you might trip yourself up later.

C. Saying nothing or putting her off with a "none of your beeswax" will be off-putting to her.

I learned a long time ago not to ask guys that. The reason I asked it (maybe start this discussion fully clothed, in the light of day) was because I was getting no verbal or vocal feedback whatsoever. Without hearing that I'm special or especially attractive to my partner, I have no way of knowing if it even matters to him which vagina he's humping. So, sometimes, we need to hear it. Usually the answer I got was "Honestly, my mind is a blank." And that is probably true about half the time.

So I'm thinking about phrases like "I was thinking about how beautiful you look in this light" or choose a body part of hers that you KNOW she's a little proud of (nice rack, nice booty, whatever SHE thinks her best assets are) and talk about how hot that part is and what you want to do with it.

Or you could just look her dead in the eye and tell her you were thinking about how much you love her and how much you love being with her in that moment.

Some questions (And these are none of my business, so feel free to ignore them) for you to think about:

• Is she having orgasms? That right there would take the focus of what YOU are thinking and put it squarely on where she is in the process. If she's not, then she needs to learn how. And yes, it is not an innate instinctive thing for women. We often have to learn how to relax and let go and let our bodies build up to do what they do. This is where toys might be useful, but she might want to try them in private first or she might not feel comfortable using them without you. So that is a fully-clothed, in-the-light-of-day discussion.

• Is there a garment factor at play here? Is she wearing garments and is that a turn off for you (assuming it is if she's wearing them)? Can she be talked into trading those out for lingerie ONLY for fun sexxy time? What if you took her to VS and went shopping with her? (One of my favorite dates with my BF -- when we first got together -- was going to the adult stores and letting him choose outfits and costumes. Then we'd cram ourselves in the dressing room and I'd try stuff on, let him take pix with his phone of things he really liked. We'd settle on something we both liked and then I'd buy it and we'd go home and play with it. It was a really neat way to find out what each other liked without having to have an awkward kitchen table discussion. And it was a turn on to watch him watching me try on slutty outfits. Now that I mention this, I think it's time for another shopping trip. ;>))

_______________________

Anecdote:
At the very end of my last relationship, I was, you know, having sex with my boyfriend. I was SO not into it. I remember laying there thinking, "I am not going to get off. This is boring. I wonder if he'll last much longer. Maybe I should paint the ceiling to match the walls." ;>) He was pumping away, totally into it.

And then I thought to myself, "Well, this is stupid. Why should I just lie here and wait for him to finish when I could be getting off too?"

So I started thinking about a guy friend with whom I'd just rekindled a friendship (and had dated a bit the previous year). BOOM! About 38 seconds later, all the bells and whistles went off in what was a really mindblowing O. Of course I did not mention to him that the reason I enjoyed myself so much was because I was totally thinking of someone else. I let him just be happy thinking he'd done something awesome. :: yawn :: :>)

I knew in that moment that my relationship with the guy was totally over because I wanted to be with the friend -- the thought of whom did the trick. I broke up with the guy shortly after that. And right after that, I got together with the friend. Who is now my Friend. ;>) And we are blissfully happy. I do not ask him what he is thinking about, but that's because we are into some very kinky stuff and I don't need to ask.

For some women (me included, evidently) fantasizing about another is an indicator that I'm not feeling connected to the person I'm with. So I think your DW is not feeling the connection for some reason. Maybe you're too quiet and she's getting no feedback, so she's guessing that you're not even thinking about her. I don't know about anyone else, but I cannot stand silent sex. No moaning, no whispering, no dirty talk... makes me think it's just maintenance sex and that it's not about the people involved -- it could be anyone, as long as he's getting off. I've been known to ask for feedback -- and I give very enthusiastic feedback myself so he knows I'm loving every minute of his lovin'. He never has to ask if it was good for me (his ears are still ringing from the screaming, so he probably wouldn't be able to hear the answer anyway).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2011 10:11AM by dogzilla.

I am so far out of the realm of the normal bell curve.

Sucks to be me.

I've tried so hard, but you can't force a person to open up and lighten up.

Good luck.

I always give the same answer to my wife when she asks what I'm thinking about. (though she has never asked during sex)

What are you thinking about?

Sex and Money.

What else do guys think about?

sandwiches and football?

OP loves his wife, but she is too immature and insecure to love him as he is.

Sex is a huge area of life.

Pain ...

I definitely recommend the counselor. Sooner, not later. Later usually fails.

Best of luck.

A counselor will keep them coming back ad infinitum and be very polite.

But this is RFM where people can be more direct.

A marriage of less than a year, where the wife is not all that interested in sex and the young husband has to resort to masturbation, will not last.

Certainly not in the morg, where both church and wifey will continuously police the poor shmuck's two heads for masturbation and pornography.

No amount of counselling will fix this situation, unless she has a paradigm shift and leaves the morg.

The amount of time he wants to put into his marriage depends on his desire to suffer and wait for a highly unlikely event to occur.