First, when you don’t like foreigners that can’t write a perfect American English than stop right here. My writing will offend you. But calm down, it’s my last post and I will not boarder you guys any longer. So don’t worry.

I write the outcome and what happened to my friends because I promised it and there are some that may wait how its ends.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,289717,290271#msg-290271

First the missionaries canceled the 3rd lesson or discussion because they had an urged meeting somewhere and could not make it. The lesson should be rescheduled on Sunday in church.

So they went to church last Sunday. Eric said it was quiet an experience. First they had the impression that about 4 missionaries tried to shield them from talking to others. Eric said he could be wrong but it was just a feeling. After the service split, they were not going where the other investigators went. Two older men had an extra class prepared for them. No there was nothing special. They talked about how God created the earth and the human beings. They said they should pray about it.
After Church 3-4 Missionaries and these 2 men (teachers), from before shielded them from speaking to others in the Church. Eric said it was like when you have visitors in your house and you stand up, bust the table, start to talk how nice it was that they stopped by and wish you a save trip home. Eric said there were very polite but after Church it was very clear that their time was over.

Monday evening they got a call from a missionary which introduces himself as the missionary zone leader. The missionary was very nice and invaded them for the 3rd lesson to church on Wednesday evening. He said there would be others that investigate the church and they want to watch a move.

Well my friends said they will come. Afterwards they said, that they don’t believe in this and that now the truth comes out. They decided to go anyway because they did nothing wrong. They didn’t lie to the missionaries.

Well they went to Church on Wednesday evening. As expected there was no one else but 4 missionaries and a couple from church. There was no movie but discussions about God.
No one talked about homosexuality at all. They took a different approach to it. They said because they did not believe in God they could not be baptized and they could not go to church.
The couple from church, in their late 50ties, was introduced to them as there spiritual advisors. So they asked them if they would accept them for a spiritual advisor. My friends declined and told them that they are very happy who they are and don’t need anyone that improves their spirituality.
Than they left the Church.

I guess that’s it. I’ll don’t think that they show up anymore. That’s was the outcome.
No one talked about homosexuality. They only talked about God and that they have first to believe in god.

needing them to believe in God.

Thanks for the update.

Buddy, Feel free to post as much as you like. I don't mind and I'm sure others agree your English is fine.

I'm happy it turned out this way and that they won't be bothered in the future. That is a good thing!

Thanks for the follow up, I was interested to hear how that turned out.

Don't worry about the language thing, you get your point across and that's all that matters.

We ugly Americans learn best with someone actually showing us that there are more than just Americans in the world.

Besides, why should you be deprived of a supportive community just because some people are rude. Most of the folks on this board are pretty decent and caring.

Very interesting story!

I have not heard of this before and I am fascinated.

Is this new missionary training? Do any of you RMs know anything about it. Isolating investigators is right out of the cult manual, BY THE WAY!

Please, fill me in...

Anagrammy

IMO the missionaries (or the ward leaders) did not want ward members or other (i.e. straight) investigators to discover that a gay couple was investigating the church, and this was why they “shield[ed] them [the gay investigators] from talking to others.” Had the young couple been straight, the usual fellowshipping of potential members would have been allowed and encouraged.

And BTW bravo to those two young men for declining the invitation to hand over their right to pursue their own path, to an older couple they had just met!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2011 12:28AM by WiserWomanNow.

I hope that you continue to post here. I think that there has been a lot of misunderstanding here. I think that the confusion comes from your RFM name "Buddy Joe". It sounds VERY All-American. I read several of your posts before I realized that you weren't a native English speaker. Actually your English is VERY good. I've studied Japanese and French and at one time could speak fairly well, but NEVER have been able to write well at all in those languages. I think that if you gave us a hint as to your Nationality in your Name it would help clear up a lot of confusion. In any case, I hope that you don't let a few jerks push you off this site. It's good to have the perspective from another European (if I remember right, you're German).

Do not give your power to some fool(s) who thinks it's cool to criticise you (or your ability to write English). You contributions (and others like them) are important to this board !!!

Your frustration at supposedly not writing "perfect English" reminds me of that British couple who complained about those "bloody Polish movers" who didn't know what was in which boxes. The shoes were in big boxes on which the Brits had written "shus" and the clothes were in boxes that said "clovs". Bloody foreigners didn't have a clue. Hilarious innit?

However, I'm not used to Americans complaining about our English. They're usually delighted.

Do keep us informed about mishies and gays. And sister mishies and lesbians. What's the area you are reporting from?

To quote Eddie Izzard speaking to an American audience: "Do you know there's other countries?"

Sometimes, the grammar police around here get overzealous and assume everyone is speaking American English as their first language. Such an assumption is unfair, of course.

As far as I'm concerned, this board is for exmo's anywhere in the world.

Buddy Joe, don't listen to the 'haters' that focus on nothing but good English or grammar. As far as I know, this is a forum for Ex-Mos regardless of nationality. Keep posting your stories here.

Kudos to the married gay couple for standing their ground. What they said was the stone cold truth: they don't need anyone telling them how to be happy. Least of all Mormons who have no clue what happiness means.

This is a type of cognitive dissonance situation that Mormonism is going to face on a going forward basis in any country where its possible for the beancounters in Salt Lake to get any tithing inflows. In order for married gay couples to be truly "happy" as defined by the Mormon church they'll have to:

1. Divorce and split up.
2. Get baptized.
3. Start dating just people (who are also Mormons) of the opposite gender.
4. Go to the temple for their own endowment.
5. Get married in the temple (someone of opposite gender).
6. Endure to the end.

The problem for the Big 15 in Salt Lake is that in the year 2011 that if they were to publicly announce this Six Step Program to Happiness then they'd find plenty of opposition/ridicule in any of the countries where tithing inflows are possible. This opposition/ridicule would hurt the careers of anyone who claims to be Mormon (except in the Mormon corridor) and would cause plenty of straight people (who have gay married friends or know people with gay married friends) to steer clear of Mormonism.

Thus they're trying to quietly deal with the issues of any gay married people taking the discussions.

I only saw one person criticize your english skills, and that was on a very heated thread that was eventually deleted because it violated board guidelines. When message threads get heated, people lash out just as they sometimes lash out in a heated argument - grammar is an easy target to criticize. I think you're taking it more personally than it is worth, and I should know - I'm an expert in taking things too personally.

As others have mentioned, your english is of good enough quality to pass for the typical American.. you should consider that a compliment. Then again, if someone thinks you're an American, perhaps that's an insult, actually, haha.

I don't think the person was targeting your grammar because you aren't stateside.. I believe they criticized your grammar because they assumed, erroneously, that english is your native language *because it is good enough for you to be passable as a native english speaker*. Surely in a heated written argument in Germany, one might criticize another person's German from time to time, no? I have to admit I vehemently disagreed with your viewpoints on that thread, but that doesn't mean I dislike you because you're not American. It doesn't even mean I dislike you.. I just don't agree with you on that particular subject.

I'm not defending the actions of the person criticizing you - but I certainly don't think the person was anti-European because they criticized your grammar. I think they were just upset by the topic, and decided to be overly-critical. If I had a nickel for every argument that dissolved into grammar wars, well, I'd be as rich as Tomato S. Monsoon.

Anyway, thanks for the update on the gay investigators saga. While I think they made the right choice, I can't help but feel a little disappointed that they didn't string the mishies along further. Can you imagine the press they'd get if they accidentally baptized two "active" homosexuals? It would've been hilarious!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2011 11:35AM by apatheist.

Word order. The way certain verbs are used that, when translated back into German, are perfectly correct. Lots of tells.

Erin (former German as Second Language/English as Second Language Teacher)

This is the weirdest, strangest LDS church I ever heard of. They do not have "spiritual advisors" -- that's a bunch of nonsense. Maybe they meant Home Teachers?
Very odd story. None of it makes sense ...not to me anyhow.

Thanks for the update, and please remember that if a few people commented on your English, that there are hundreds of us here who didn't.