Mormomoism and other controlling cults program us to be "positive," to say yes, to please authority figures no matter what they require of us.

Over the years I've noticed so many posts about this topic by those who are afraid of disappointing mishies, mormon neighbors, home teachers, bishops and others. Posters want to have some say in their lives without the discomfort of telling anyone no when no is a perfectly good polite word.

In fact no one of the only words in the English lauguage that's a complete sentence on its own. It requires no modifyers and no explanations. It's powerful and can save us untold inconvenience and heartache and every time we use it well we become more honorable authentic and powerful in our own lives.

Anyone out there have experiences to share? How about a little bragging? We earned that right by escaping a controlling mindset.

No experiences to add, except when I finally said NO to some Phood holder asking me to give up my only evening off, it was so empowering! Like flipping the switch, the flood of "What the heck am I doing here?" just washed over me. I walked out a few weeks later. Freedom is sweet!


Control keeps us on the hamster wheel. Don't want to lose HFs blessings or we won't see our family in the CK.

I'm saving my eyes from too much stress while starting to post a bit. It's great to be back!

I had a lot of experiences with saying, "no" to Mormons over the years. As you know, our family was harassed for years.

But the one incident that stands out the most . . . a lovely church friend had taken it upon herself to "clothe" my oldest Russian daughters, as they were just a size smaller than her teen. Her efforts were really appreciated - she practically clothed my oldest Russian daughter the first summer she arrived from Eastern Europe.

So it was with a mixture of sadness and fear of offending that I answered the door one day. There was my "friend" with a large box of clothes for my children. I knew she was fellowshipping me. And I also knew that she believed I wouldn't deny her entrance into my home with her gift (which had always been so welcome before). Please understand that this was not an isolated incident. Our family had left the church a few weeks before, and we had been stalked day and night since then.

So I said, "No." I did not open the door wide and welcome her in. I encouraged her to take the clothes to the Salvation Army. I felt bad about the shock I saw written all over her face. But I just couldn't do it anymore.

I was ready to move on with my life and stop being manipulated by ward members wanting to save my soul (and my children's).

"No."

I did it and it was my first moment of empowerment in a long journey out of the LDS church.

;o)

It's much harder to say no to lovely mormon friends than to the mormon strangers I've had to confront at my door. Thanks for the good wishes and a huge "Well done" to you!

Wow Cheryl...I think you nailed my #1 life-defining moment - when I finally got the courage to say NO to family, some friends, and people in authority.

Saying No is incredibly self-affirming! I have quit jobs that became too much of a burden. I have ended relationships that were not giving back as much as I was putting in.

The last time I used it was this past summer when I told my elderly father NO to his demand that I come help him on the farm on the weekends. He is narcissistic & good at passive/aggressive manipulation. He said I had to start helping since he helped his father. If I caved in and said yes, I would be sacrificing my weekends and essentially working 7 days a week and adding to my already stressful life (full-time career + single parenting my 9 yo daughter).

I tried to remind him that he had a wife all those years who cleaned/cooked/took care of his children so that he could go help grandpa. He retorted that he worked 12 hours a day for many years. I retorted that I put in 16 hour days as a single parent. Not to mention my job is significantly more demanding and stressful than his cushy government job was.

All it showed was he was 100% selfish and cared NOT AT ALL about MY life situation. I need my down time to maintain my health and sanity - NO WAY I'M GIVING THAT AWAY FOR ANYONE.

Bottom line: saying NO to others is saying YES to yourself.

It's also saying yes to your well deserving 9 year old who hasn't had the years to mellow out and become wise as your father should have learned.

I've become very sensitive to recognizing manipulation tactics over the last decade - I'm now 46.

I'm so sensitive to it now that my automatic reaction to a demand that I do something is "no". If there is no case for why I should do it and I don't feel I should volunteer myself, then the answer is no. I don't even apologize anymore. My plate is already full. The only way you're going to get me to take on more is convince me something on the plate is less important. My job? My kid? My health? My sanity? No, no, no, and no.

Saying no becomes easier when you know what is important to you and make decisions based on that and that alone. It may make you unpopular or be scorned by others, but your self-respect will remain intact.

Plus, your dad has options. He could hire help or sell the farm and retire on the proceeds.

I said "No" twice on my way out of the cult and it felt so good. One was to a stake relief society presidency calling (WTF were they thinking???) and the other time was when the Ex Sec called me to schedule an appt with the bishop. At that time, I hadn't been to church in about a year. I asked the guy why the bishop wanted to see me. "I don't know" he said, "probably for a calling". I said, "when you find out what he wants, let me know and I will decide if I will meet with him". I never heard from him or the bishop again...haha.

I remember the first time I told the cult "NO."
I've told this story before, but I think it's a good example of why I never fit in with the cult mentality.

When I was 16-17, I attended the SS class that was a year below me. My friends were in that class and I really couldn't stand to be around the two boys who were my own age. They were total assholes. For the first year, it wasn't a big deal, but then my friend's uber-controlling, abusive father was called to be the SS pres. Keep in mind, this man would open and confiscate my letters to this friend when I left for college.

Anyways, suddenly there was an uproar that i was attending the wrong class. My mother was pulled aside and told to make me go to my age gorup. She laughed and told them, "I don't think so. Itz does not like those boys and she's happy where she is."

The next week, the 1st Counselor pulled me out in the foyer and told me it was important for me to go to the right class. I replied, "No. I am NOT going to that class. Those boys have done some very cruel and vicious things to me and I will not be around them. I also highly doubt Jesus really cares what class I'm in as long as I'm going to church. I can always have my work schedule me for EVERY Sunday is this is going to be a problem." He was very taken aback by this, but no one gave me any grief about it after that "showdown."

Saying NO! is just aboiut the best thing for yourself. It saves you inconvience and frustration.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2011 03:05PM by Itzpapalotl.

Think about how powerful two letters can be.

Background:

6 months after my mission I had a dead mother on my hands and no other immediate family. Of course I will gravitate to the church. I was made the exec secy in the singles ward. Because it was a singles ward, jobs were often doubled up. I was also the ward pianist. I was also a home teacher. I went to temple every Wednesday and often on a Saturday as well as every "stake night" and "ward night". I went to church on Sundays same hours as the bishop. I went to Institute on Tuesdays. I went to home evening on Mondays. I went to almost every fireside that they did.

The bishop was released, but the new one wanted to keep me on, so here I go again.

I did this from 1992-1997.

Then they got another new bishop. Thankfully, he didn't want me on. I knew this bishop from when I was a kid and REALLY didn't like the man. I went to church for a few weeks and felt very uncomfortable. I decided that I would go to the family ward where I lived. I went and met with the bishop and he asked if he could give me a "calling".

I looked at him and said "No."

His look was as if he had NEVER heard that word before.

I explained that I was burned out and needed a break.

"Let me just come to church for a while, please" I said.

He said ok.

About 6 months go by and then he said he wanted to me to have a job, so I said fine, just make it something that doesn't require a lot of time and something that won't require me to be here every week. He made me the ward emergency prep rep. He said it would be one meeting at the stake a month and then report back. I missed the first meeting and never went back to church again.

After 2 years of being "inactive", I was still a believing member albeit inactive. Then I discovered the truth. Been out 10 years now.

I think that initial "no" was my saving grace!!!!!

I've noticed whenever I am about to say no, the image of Nancy Regan forms in my head with her voice saying, "Just say no."

I'm terrible at saying no at work, but when it comes to people trying to sell me stuff, I've gotten pretty good at it.

God, I hope not. Could you believe how dumb they were?

For some reason, Nancy's head seemed extra big for her body to me. So, I envision her giant floating head (with perfect hair) saying, "Just say nooooooooooo." Now that's one meme I wouldn't mind losing.

My ‘no’ comes with a lot of gratitude to a no-mo counsellor I had at the time. I tried to tell her that the bishop/ other leaders spoke for god. She told me that they were just men and it took a while for that to sink deeply into my soul. That was the first chip in the armour.

I was asked to be assistant cub leader. I called the cub leader to see what I’d have to do and if I could bring my 7 yr old son along as dh’s job meant he was out of town that night. I was told that no, cubs started at 8 yrs, but she was sure someone wouldn’t mind babysitting ds every week. (Yeah, right, I’m sure. Ha!). I also would have to find a ride home every time as I didn’t have a car either. So, I’d be spending my time with other kids while ds was just sitting around the chapel waiting for me to finish cubs.

I told the guy no and he was not happy. “ I was inspired to pick you” he told me. I told him back that 'maybe that was so, so I could learn to say no. ' That did not impress him at all.

My next really important church ‘no’ incident came when the bishop’s counsellor kept letting people into the library while I was librarian. I finally went to him, tossed my key at him and said ‘if you are so eager to do my job, here’s the key.’ He was so apologetic, that I hit upon the GREAT MORMON SECRET. That is: if you don’t care whether or not you have that calling, they have no hold over you. Until my counsellor managed to drill it into my head that church leaders are just men (even in my church) I was the type that thought that a calling came from god, and showed me that god a) noticed me, b) thought enuf of me to give me a calling & c) would take it away if I did a lousy job.

Out of the church I learned to say no to telemarketers during the 90’s recession. I HAD to say no because we didn’t have any extra money, but it was easier to say that dh was unemployed than to just say no (it got sympathy instead of more pleading). After dh got his next job I’d said ‘no’ enuf that I didn’t need to add anything to it. That has stood me in good stead for the last 12+ years. 

No you can't bring your son.

The thing I notice most is that those people who are best crossing other peoples boundaries and not taking no for an answer are the best at saying no and enforcing their own boundaries.

It's OK for them to say no and walk all over people, but no one else is allowed to?????

Being 'called' to be 2nd counselor in the Stake Primary while going through a divorce, working full-time plus over time and stressed out beyond all belief, was my wake up call about the exploitive nature of this organization and their so-call inspired callings, that's when I learned to say no and the beginning of the end of my relationship with the church.

There are questions in Mormonism where "No" is the expected answer.

Do you smoke or drink?

Do you masturbate?

Are you having sex?

Is anyone opposed?

One of the first times I replied "No" in the way that wasn't expected/desired was when a student ward bishop wanted to call me to be a Sunday school teacher. He and his counselor were speechless for a moment I said, "No, thank you."

Another time was after college when I was on a date with a jackmo woman. We were trying to figure out where each other stood in regards to the church. She asked, "Well, do you believe Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus?"

No one had ever asked me that since my pre-mission temple interview, when I mostly believed in it. But right then I had one of those moments when my total disbelief crystalized. "No, I don't." It felt good to say it out loud.

"Then all the rest is sort of pointless, isn't it?"

"I guess so."

That was our last date, because she turned out to be one of those jackmos who still believed.

"No" is about what we don't want. But as my therapist told me, if we want to live a fuller life, it's not enough to just be rid of the things we don't want. We need to know what we do want. And coming out of Mormonism, we often need to learn how to give ourselves permission to go after and have the things we want.

Always with a provocative question.

The first time I said, "No" to the church was when the bishop told me that "we" believe that Joseph Smith's revelations are superior to those of Jesus Christ.

WHAT! WHAAAAAT? NOBODY ever told me that, I howled. No. Nonononononono. And no. Please leave.

And he obeyed me.

I was addicted to controlling my own life from that moment on.

Anagrammy

No, I will not accept dogma, or unsubstantiated claims. It doesn't matter if it comes from RFM or from the morg.

No, I am not your stalker either.

I'm good with the word "no." It is the word "why" that I find lacking in all areas of discussion.

I said no when my husband's TBM ex-wife tried to force me to spend Christmas with her at my husband's father's house. It was the best thing I could have ever done for my marriage and my sanity.

I also said no when my crazy sister threw a temper tantrum when she didn't get her way and then expected me to drive her four hours to her house. Again, it was the best thing I could have done for my marriage and my sanity.

Both of these people treat me with a lot more respect than they would have if I hadn't stood my ground.

Although there are no guarantees and some people might scorn you for saying no, I think in most cases they respect those who are honest and who establishes reasonable boundaries. Anyone who pipes up out of thin air to cliam they're not a stalking or intruding on boundaries most likely has those proclivities and is in denial. Mormons are the first to claim respect which is as transparent as celephane.

Saying no becomes increasinly easy and natural with practice like learning a challenging piano piece or a gymnastic stunt.

When I told my TBM then-wife that I couldn't take a new 'calling' at that point in my life (I was in a Master's program full-time while also working full-time, and we had 5 young kids to raise), and that I would have to say 'No' IF they asked me, I believe that was the first time that she threatened to divorce me if I refused any such 'calling.' This was a hypothetical situation/discussion, and she felt so strongly that NO ONE said 'No' to the Corp's anointed, that she would rather break up the family than to ever say "no".

Four years later, we were divorced (after many such threats from her)...

I realized that as I was reading this thread.

I hoed beets for my dad from 6th grade through about age 20. One summer not long after that, the family was assigned to hoe beets on the stake farm. I told my dad, "No." You NEVER told my dad no. He got angry and I left the house. He apologized to me later.

I can make a long list of times I said, "No" to church authorities--and my husband and my parents. My dad raised us to be free thinkers (believe it or not) and then wondered why we were so strong willed.

I always said no to saying prayers in church (and got called on the carpet for it and still said no).

I told my ex no about going to the temple especially on bishopric night as I hated the temple (I was worthy to go, he was not).

I told my ex (who was ex. sec.) no to meeting with the bishop for years.

They called me to be a YW counselor while I was inactive and I said no.

My dad "ordered" me back to church (he wasn't that TBM himself so go figure) and I said no and he listened to what I told him about my own experiences.

I know I find myself HERE now because my dad taught us that we had the right to think for ourselves.

No, I won't tell you about my experiences in learning to use the word "NO."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2011 11:50PM by baura.

I guess the first time I said no to he crutch was when I refused to go on a mission. Shock waves reverberated all through the ward. I guess I was the golden boy who was supposed to go on a mission and live the mormon dream.

Only trouble was that it wasn't my dream. I've been telling them no ever since.

A TBM nephew once accused me of only doing as I damn well please. I told him I'd be a fool to do otherwise.

When I finally told my neighbor that I was not willing to be her unofficial babysitter all day every day anymore, it changed my life. Probably forever. That was probably 14 months before I had my first doubt.

But I finally realized that I'd rather have somebody disappointed or mad at me, than for me to be mad at THEM for taking advantage of me. I'd rather have inner peace and control of my own life and home. I realized that there are some people you almost NEED to offend to get them out of your life.

It was like a revelation. What I felt and wanted was more important to me than what someone else wanted. I had a long ways to go, but it was a start.

It was the beginning of BOUNDARIES for me.

My bluntness paid off. My life was MUCH more enjoyable after that.

Honestly, I usually feel WONDERFUL when I say no. Because it means I'm listening to my inner wisdom instead of caving in to unwanted demands/requests. I'm taking care of myself physically or emotionally instead of wearing myself out through overcommitment.

I have two no's to tell

1.I had a meeting with my Stake President, during which I outlined why I no longer believed the Church was what it stated it was.
He ran through the temple recommend questions - which I answered truthfully.
Do you sustain Thomas S Monson as a Prophet, Seer and Revelator?
Me - 'No'
*awkward silence*
He then asked me to go away and do some things - I said I might, but more likely I probably wouldn't.
He said he would arrange another meeting with me in a couple of months.

2. Two months later I get the phone call from the Exec Sec. 'Stumbling' the Stake President would like to meet with you next Wednesday at his office in the Stake Centre at 8.00pm.
Is that okay?
Me - 'No'
*awkward silence*
Me. Just let him know that when and if I want to meet with him I'll give you a call and let you know.

(obviously I have yet to make that phone call so I hope he wasn't holding his breath)

Both times it was extremely liberating.
Both times I felt good rather than bad - still do.
Both times the still small voice confirmed to me aftwerwards that it was absolutely the right thing to do. Go figure.

After leaving the church and before getting divorced, I saw a shrink for about a year. He told me I was a stark raving co-dependent and if I didn't learn how to say "no" that I'd always be fucked up. So, I did it. I started saying "no".

Lost a ton of friends because I didn't pony up like I did the in past. "We're moving, can you help?..." ummm, no. "My wife kicked me out...can I live with you for a while?"... ummm, no.

Lost a buncha friends, found better ones, found myself.

Ron

Congratulations for sticking with it and finding yourself and your true friends.

As you well know the earth doesn't open up and eat you alive for using that word. In fact it usually opens to a new better way of life.

No loss for those that do. Usually takers.

By the time I got home from my mission I was so fed up with all things church, but within a week of getting home the Stake President called me in and wanted me to be the Elder's Quorum teacher. I said "no" he looked like a deer in the headlights. He asked why and I said "I've been doing that for two years and I'm tired of it, I want a break." He then said "well this IS a calling from the Lord." I said "Then, I'll take it up with Him." I was so sick of hearing that same old line.

I quit going to church about 3 months later. This was over 30 years ago. "No" is the most underused word in Mormondom. More members should use it. They aren't going to ex anyone for saying no to a calling. As Nancy Reagan used to say "JUST SAY NO!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 11:22AM by lapsed.

Here's the empowering conversation I had 25 years ago with my bishop at the time:

Bishop: "Brother Taylor, we want you to baptize your son but you need to be more active to do it. Now, I don't want to force you into anything."

Me: "Bishop, I won't ALLOW you to force me to do anything."

I'm sure the look of surprise on BOTH our faces was priceless.

This was the first time I ever said "No" to a church leader.