In the other thread, many got their knickers in a twist because some young kid was quoted as saying "That's so gay!".

Let's get something straight. Younger kids these days use language and connotations that are far removed from us older folks. For example, a "fag" when we were kids was a cigarette.

When kids say something is "gay" these days, the intent is that it's odd, obsurd or.... queer. Hmmmm....

Just because words have multiple meanings doesn't mean one should automatically jump to the conclusion that it's derisive to a particular sub-culture.

We said "same shit, different day". My kids now say "same crap, different pile". We said "male bonding", my kids say "scrotum welding". Different generations, different connotations. Don't get your knickers in a twist.

Just sayin'...

Ron

@#$%& above was this typed backwards: reeuq. See? We even program websites to be overly-sensitive to "hot" words. Since when is "reeuq" always a bad word?

Ron

Ha ha! Scrotum welding...I like it.

words change constantly. In the same way that when I drop the dreaded F BOMB I am not actually making reference to sexual intercourse, so it is with "that's so g.."

However, I prefer this blog writer's suggestion: replacing the original with "That's So Mormon" to denote when something is corny or cheesy. :)

http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2011/09/12/thats-so-mormon

It's also good to remember that it's okay to be Tikei!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRkIWB3HIEs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4DXQkckz4I

Edit: elee, that was a funny video.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 09:40AM by Strykary.

... "Ni**er-Rigged"

I'm certain that didn't offend anyone, particularly ni**ers.

Don't ever recall referring to a cigarette as a "fag". That's a Limey thang if I remember correctly.

Timothy

is wrong or effed up..... so some may take offense to it.... like that is so stupid...you could replace stupid with gay.... so i could see were people have a problem with it.... i know you are not "against" gays so i know you dont want to or mean to offend anyone..... also you dont use gay like that....but i can see where some would not like that!
just sayin!

I had a reaction to it when I read it. My son was called gay by the jocks when he was in middle school. Of course, no one knew his dad was gay--but it had a deep effect on him. Whether it is "kosher" or not--it isn't appropriate.

Is not a new phrase as you imply it is in saying it was used by a "young kid." Well, as one of the "older" folks I remember hearing the phrase over 40 years ago growing up, and it was used and meant exactly as it sounds: to be imply that whatever someone was doing was only done by gays, and that the person doing it must be gay. It was put-down meant to imply that being gay was bad.

So are you saying the meaning/intent of the phrase has changed in the past 40 years? That "kids" say it without thinking about it, sort of like when I was a kid I would say "eanie, meanie, miney, mo, catch a n***** by the toe..." I had no idea what a n***** was, it was just a phrase you used in picking something or sides in a game. After all that phrase had lost it's meaning after being in use for over 100 years, so why should anyone get upset at catching a n***** by the toe?

Disagree. The topic in question was an inanimate object.. temple clothing. I agree only to the extent that "gay" is used to describe a person. And, yes, that's exACTly what I'm saying. Kids don't use the word with the intent that everything "gay" is related to homosexuality, and therefore odd or bad. I can't remember one time when the word "gay" was used as a slur growing up (I'm 58). F A G, H O M O...others, yes. "Gay" no.

Ron

but even the description you are using....an object.... means that the object is well objectionable.... it is equating Gay with objectionable..... is it?
just sayin!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 10:23AM by bignevermo.

Okay, let's try this. You say to your son "I can't find my wallet and I just laid it there on the table 2 seconds ago!".. and he replies "Well, isn't THAT reeuq!". Is your wallet objectionable, is the table gay, or are you a homosexual?

I'm just sayin'...

Ron

Reeuq has another meaning, that being "strange," etc. Used in the context of your example, the word is used correctly, not as a put down.

Gay commonly has two meanings. "happy" and "homosexual." So if your son said "that's so gay" about someone or something, he really means "that so happy" and something good and/or a compliment? By your context, the phrase (about temple clothing) it is just the opposite and is being used that it is strange (as are gays).

The phrase started as slur over 40 years ago, and time doesn't change it, just like it doesn't change my example of eenie, meanie, miney, mo.

Okay, every kid that uses the term "gay" knows full well that it's a derision to homosexuals...if that's what you want to believe.... I choose not to believe it.

I'm done here.

Ron

Our local schools here write kids up for sexual harassment for using it. Using it as a put down can have a profound effect on a child, gay or not. It also feeds the taboo that there's something wrong with being gay and ostracizes children starting at a very early age over their sexuality.

I agree languige changes but I dont like it to much when swareing and curseing changes because then what do you have left to scream when you stub your toe?

Also do you really want the word whore to start to be a nice term of indeerment for your wife?

blindmag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree languige changes but I dont like it to
> much when swareing and curseing changes because
> then what do you have left to scream when you stub
> your toe?
>
> Also do you really want the word whore to start to
> be a nice term of indeerment for your wife?


I got a goodie for the toe stubbing thingie. BTW, I stubbed my little piggie Saturday night and it was bleeding and now I have a band aid on it... anyway, here's what you scream:

"GoddamSummaBitchinMotherFuckinDogDickLickinPigFUCKER!". My kids can't follow it fast enough to remember all of it. They suck at toe-subbing cussin'! :)

Ron

Through over use, taboo words become less insulting and more mainstream over time. Sometimes it does take centuries. The F Bomb has been considered taboo for over 500 years.

But no fear. Should the Lovely F Bomb go the way of the insult "silly", it will simply be replaced by something else.

My two new favorites from a co-worker:

"What we've got here is a total fuckle!:

And whenever she gets pissed off and is in polite company, she says:

"God. Bless. America!"

Any word can convey the desired taboo meaning, whether the taboo word is used or not.

I had an 80-ish aged patient the other night and she was telling me about her grown children. She desrcribed one as being very gay. I said that's cool! It doesn't bother me. She looked puzzled for a second then laughed. No....her child was very happy.

It made me giggle. Carry on....

and remember gay being used all the time when I was a teen, along with the other two you list. Just to check that it wasn't my faulty memory, I looked in my 1969 dictionary and it lists "gay" as slang for homosexual. To appear in a dictionary by that time, it had to have been in common usage for a while before that. I remember specifically comments about a rival school that they were all gay. It was meant to imply that their football team couldn't play, because "everyone" knew that gays played football like "sissies" which was also another code word for someone being gay.

I haven't seen the original thread, but an inanimate object doesn't matter. To say it about temple clothing, the implication is that temple clothing would only be worn by gays, and that being gay is bad.

I appreciate your view point, but I don't ever want to hear that phrase, ever. It hurts, period.

It was our safe word. It was the word that made it OK. Now its the word that makes it not OK.

You are always thoughtful and I enjoy your posts.

I know a couple of women who are named Gay. As in Barbara Gay and Darlene Gay. Not a very popular name these days I imagine.

I agree.

That's why I always refer to Brazil nuts as "n*gger toes." I always have and I'm almost 60. I'm not going to stop.

When an African-American (or anyone else) hears me and objects, I just say, "Good God, you don't think I'm eating a real human's toe. What the hell is your problem?"

People just aren't bright enough to look at the context and realize that the same word can have different meanings.

Shheesh.

Lulu wrote "People just aren't bright enough..." etc.

What an idiot!

(BTW, to me, "idiot" means "cool.")

Tell me you're kidding!

You might need to leave this to those who have experienced this as a pejorative for many years. I've had the experience many times over of young people (who know that I'm Gay) using Gay in the same way as the teen in the original post, and immediately realizing what they have done and getting VERY embarrassed about it. No matter how you'd like to spin it, Gay is not a synonym for odd or absurd. And those who use it that way in civilized company are only going to embarrass THEMSELVES. I certainly don't let it pass when someone uses it that way around me. And where I come from, using Gay as a pejorative will get you in as much hot water socially as using the N-word.

The term Gay began as a pejorative, and it has taken Gay people a lot of time, pain, and frankly DEAD BODIES to rehabilitate the term and make it acceptable to US. Neither you or the teenagers will be allowed to let it's usage slip back into slander without a fight...

just sayin'

And if there is anyone who believes that a teen saying "That's so gay" doesn't mean it in a derogatory way towards gays--they'd be fooling themselves. "Gay" is very much a term middle school and high school kids use to bully other kids.

the pejorative use of "breeders", sonoma?

It doesn't have the same history as a pejorative that Gay has. Yet, you'll notice that I haven't used it since the post to which you are referring.

and I still agree 100% with you on this issue.

But I am glad that you see the point and are choosing not to use it. Well, at least here.

We, all of us,make linguistic faux pas and the only way we learn is to be confronted with the fact that our words do hurt. Regardless of our intention. Regardless of etymology. Regardless as to whether we personally find the word offensive.

Personally, I am sticking with "That's sooooooo Mormon."

I won't say "that's so gay" and I don't tolerate my kids saying it. I also speak up when anyone says it.

I recall using the phrase "you're so retarded" or "you're such a retard" myself and not thinking twice about it until I had a little nephew who was mentally challenged. It's hurtful.

I feel like too many people are "too close" to this one to really take an objective look at this subject.

If you get emotional upon thinking about this topic and/or feel the need to give anyone who approaches the other side of the topic a stern talking to, you're too damn close to the situation to speak objectively.

On another forum, a teen was roundly chastised for attempting to get around the fact that it is derogatory by spelling it "ghey".

Nope, we all know what she meant.

Geez, you all gave my son a complex.

you'll see that I was pointing out that it is in your son's interest to learn that using Gay as a pejorative is unacceptable in polite society (South Park not withstanding). No one is trying to give him a "complex", but it would be wise for him to learn what is acceptable and not in civilized society. I would have had the same response if instead of saying "that's so Gay" he had said "stupid N******".

As I've mentioned before when this topic comes up, I'm a linguist and I totally get polysemy, teach classes on language variation and change, etc., BUT I also believe that when people who are here seeking a safe place to work through their recovery indicate that they find certain words or expressions to be dehumanizing or threatening, the compassionate thing to do is avoid using those words (when they aren't critical to a relevant discussion). Am I too close to this to be "objective?" This isn't about objectivity because language is inherently a subjective social activity. I do believe that gay people are more invested in this discussion than others because *we are the targets* and folks should accept it at face value when we say that expressions like "that's gay" impact us--subjectively--in a negative way even when they don't understand why we feel that way. Do people here think we're lying when we say it hurts?