Can someone tell me if I am missing something here. The Handbook of Instructions says:

"If a woman who has been sealed to a former husband remarries, the children of her later marriage are born in the covenant of the first marriage"

AND

"Living children who are Born in the covenant or have been sealed to parents cannot be sealed to any other parents."

The only possible conclusion I can draw from this is that my son can never be sealed to me, even if my wife and I someday get sealed.

Can someone play devil's advocate with me on this, besides the standard "the Lord will work it all out"?

Thanks.

why would Mos need anything other than :It will be cleared up later: ?

exMos: It's ALL DreamWorks/ they make it up as they go along.

you're suggesting some sort of MiddleGround; I don't see How that c/would happen.

I think "the Lord will work it all out" is about the best answer you're probably going to get.

There are too many "unusual circumstances" and the "prophet" hasn't had a chance to ask "god" about each and every one of them. So, as long as you're doing everything you can... "the Lord will work it all out"...

Besides, there is little in the Handbook that is based on any kind of reality...

He had been cheating with men for a long, long time--and I thanked him for leaving me as now my kids wouldn't be sealed to his nutty family as he broke his covenants.

WRONG!

Many of my friends have gotten divorced from men who have been excommunicated and when they got their temple divorces, their ex's were asked permission to grant the temple divorce and my friends were told that the sealings to their fathers would not be broken--that those were intact.

Okay--if someone is excommunicated, doesn't that break the sealing?

Nope.

Lots of insanity in mormonism.

I *think* that passage is referring to a situation where a woman has a civil marriage and bears children within that marriage while *still* remaining sealed to her former husband. Once you get a temple divorce (which a woman must do in order to become sealed to another man), doesn't it pretty much start everyone at a clean slate as far as sealings are concerned? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.)

These sealing rules are such a headache, though. As if your son (or anyone's kid, really) would want to spend eternity with a man they barely know posing as their "dad".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 01:02PM by faboo.

OK devil's advocate says that it doesn't really matter who the children are sealed to; most important is that they are sealed.
Period. By just being sealed anyone who makes it to the CK are going to be sealed into the one big happy family there(if they're good), including the parents of the second marriage. What's even more important is the spouse you are sealed to. That's the sealing that will take you on to becoming gods in the eternity.

And what if the whole idea of "sealing" and "eternal families" is just more LDS theological nonsense? The "other" LDS standard, the Bible, states unequivocally that in Heaven there is no marriage or giving in marriage but all people are as the angels. The Church Fathers have taught since the very beginning of Christianity that the procreation of children is a saced trust but that every soul will stand before God answering for themselves without ability to special plead for admission into the CK due to being "sealed.". The whole notion of "sealing" has always seemed to me to be more of a marketing program to sell the concept of "forever families" and consequently fear for falling away from the family unit that anything else. Remain loyal or else you'll never see your family again!

Im in this situation too. It is one of the reasons that I started my journey out of LDSinc.....trying to figure out answers to the insanity drove me to realize that it is all so wacky and egotistical that I don't want anything to do with mormonism anymore.

I don't believe in a God that requires believers to act with stupidity and blindness while also requiring self sufficent living and intelligence.

How childish is it to think that God could create planets, solarsystems, ecosystems, and biological processes so complex that science cannot possibly uderstand it all.......and then to aslo charterize God as the complete opposite of Omnipotent, creator, Alpha and Omega, All powerful. Do we really want to try to charachterize God as a bumbling fool who doesn't know how to figure out families or has to use polygamy as a way to correct his own error in miscalculating the raito of male/female in an area of earth? He can balance the ecosystems of the world in all the complexity of mamals, inscets, plants, and weather patterns.....but not find a worthy male to mate with all the surplus of righteous women?

I don't believe in a God that is both all powerful and bumbling idiot at the same time!

It is so egotistical to think that we are somehow "In Charge" of redeeming ourselves through a silly ordinance in a temple perfromed by a bunch of goofy humans dressed up in costume. Where is the grace and compassion of god? We are so egotistical and self absorbed that we have convinced ourselves we are in charge of our own ability to save ourselves.

I can just see God the all powerful creator up in the heavens that he organized from the elements and unorganized matter in all of his wisdom and priesthood power.......and hes says to himself, "Well if the humans on planet earth don't get the ordinance done correctly then I guess they can't live together as a family.....they have to be sealed to strangers, or people who betrayed them, or people who abused them?"

I don't beleive in a God like that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 02:36PM by upsidedown.

Correct.

It is the "birthright blessing" of your wife's child. That is the bottom line on a childs BIC sealing. Bio parentage is not so much of an issue to the LDS. Your wife is sealed to... (property of)... another man in eternity. All children born to her while sealed to her eternal companion are sealed to her exH under the "birthright blessing". That is not altered when/if her sealing to her exH is canceled. The "birthright blessing" will not be altered by the parent's worthiness.



No putting it on the shelf or working it out in the hereafter, though they will tell you that to placate you.


The Mormon's are simply...a destructive cult.

would be mixed, or blended. People need to stop divorcing!

The thing I've been told is what Wings said - being 'born in the covenant' (or getting the same thing from being sealed) is a blessing for the child and seals the child to the church, not so much to individual parents who go through it with the kid.

The other thing I've been told is that it is all a fairy story.

Heresy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The thing I've been told is what Wings said -
> being 'born in the covenant' (or getting the same
> thing from being sealed) is a blessing for the
> child and seals the child to the church, not so
> much to individual parents who go through it with
> the kid.
=====================================
Hmmm.

Just like a temple marriage ceremony, where you make vows
TO THE CHURCH (not even God) and not to each other at all.

No love, no honor, no nothin cept blind obedience to a cult!

I've also heard this idea that the sealing is so you can be sealed back to Adam or the whole family of God's children, and that it's more a matter of getting the ordinance and to not worry that he is not sealed to me.

Ok fine - but if that is the position of the church, then we should plainly preach that as missionaries. Instead, we tell people, "Don't you want to be with your children forever?" And then we provide the sealing ordinance as the answer to this.

It's false marketing - like the church doesn't do that in other areas too. But for something this fundamental to the doctrines of the church, it should be made clear up front.

My opinion is that this "doctrine" is the church's covert way of saying that they do not recognize civil divorce.

They do recognize civil divorce after a temple sealing, but sealing work is another process that is eternal, not for time. Basically, it takes the Office of the First Presidency to cancel a sealing, not a resignation, not an excommunication...as some are led to believe.

Women get sealing cancellations from exH's to remarry someone new, and be sealed. A man, on the other hand....will not need a sealing cancellation, just a sealing clearance.

A lot of women wind up with half of their children sealed to an ex-spouse, the other half to a 2nd or 3rd spouse. It is pretty odd to have this "Families are Forever" concept when reality is...Mormon divorce is much like the divorce that never ends ;)

It is all crazy makin', and best pondered when one is in a humourous mood.

Why care if it's all baloney?

The point is that it's all imaginary and has no factual bearing on anything.
You have an intact family. That is what is real.

I have two TBM female friends who have had so much trauma over this garbage. One friend got a divorce and the other friend is now a widow. Both have gone through so much drama because they are sealed to husband #1 and can't get a cancellation. To me, an exmo, it is silly, but to them it is a living nightmare.

Emma's Flaming Sword Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have two TBM female friends who have had so much
> trauma over this garbage. One friend got a divorce
> and the other friend is now a widow. Both have
> gone through so much drama because they are sealed
> to husband #1 and can't get a cancellation. To me,
> an exmo, it is silly, but to them it is a living
> nightmare.


I have discussed this in the past with some relatives -- who have different kinds of marriages both civil and temple, including one that was a widow several times....sometimes they do find it to be a "living nightmare." In one case that I know if, they took it all in stride!

Celestial custody battles...bah.

This is an ancient way of enforcing patriarchy. So that no woman can get scott-free even by divorce. A woman and any offspring she has always remains the property of the original owner--the alpha male. Even if he, the first husband, despises her and wants to divorce her himself, he gets control over her destiny anyway. The first male to claim her as property always has the property rights to the woman and her womb.

It will be worked out in the afterlife is another way of saying we'll see if he consents to release her and her children on the other side. We don't get into that here...

Ah, the beauty of the gospel.

It just so happens that the Mormons' ability to seal people is not recognized by God, anyway.

If there is a God. Which I doubt.

The more and more I read about this topic, the more that I'm convinced of the absolute idiocracy of church policy and procedure. LDS couples get divorced for many reasons. Just because they were married in the temple doesn't guarantee any measure of "eternal salvation". Children "born in the covenant" have no say or input regarding their "eternal lineage" even if their father or mother are total jerks and ended up jeoparding their marriages.

When a man or woman decides to marry someone with young children and loves and raises them for years, they should have the right to be sealed to those children regardless of church policy. Any previous sealings to the deadbeat dads should be rendered null and void without exception or delay. New families are created all the time and they should be recognized in an "eternal" nature even if it's a burden of paperwork for church headquarters. No mother should ever have to endure the bureaucracy of church procedure when her happiness and that of her children are concerned.

It's this kind of stuff that blows me away. I mean...it's common sense, right? I guess not since we're dealing with a patriarchal organization that doesn't recognize the worth and rights of individual souls. Know this...no LDS authority figure can tell you whether or not your son is "sealed" to you. Know in your heart and soul that the afterlife is a place that is not controlled by the weird dictates of earth-bound LDS policy. Never let anyone use fear to control or manipulate your common sense and intuition.