Continued from http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,298779

I have not read "The Miracle of Forgiveness", but now that it's been mentioned twice, I think I will pick it up.

The only piece of literature I've read concerning the Mormon church since I left was "In Silent Desperation". I only wanted to read that because it was a story about a homosexual person in the Mormon church, so I wanted very much something to relate to. I thought that was such a good book, I gave it to my parents and asked them to read it.

Where might I find a copy of "The Miracle of Forgiveness" and what are it's primary themes?

You: "I would only go back to the Mormon church if they accept same sex marriage."

Why would you go back at all? If the church is wrong, then the church is wrong.

"Each of us has to face the matter—either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing." - Gordon B. Hinckley

You: "Plus, anything that has ever been invented or will be invented was already created by God. So anyone that invents anything, it was given to them through divine inspiration. So obviously, people that arn't Mormon recive divine inspiration and assistance."

This is a very negative perspective of humanity. So we don't really think for ourselves, eh? We aren't capable of being creative without God guiding our hands? This view is disgusting doesn't even jive with the doctrine that we are Gods in embryo.

You: "I won't take anything I read online as fact."

Good for you. Many of us feel the same way. That's why we verified what we had read with external sources. You admit that you haven't put in the effort to really study your religion; well, some of us have, and what we found led us here. You've revealed yourself to be willfully ignorant. Forgive me if I don't respect your perspective.

Who is the author of "In Silent Desperation?" I'm not seeing it at Amazon or Barnes & Noble. Sounds like a good book.

Just... awful book.

I think someones yanking the boards chain a little...

"The Miracle of Forgiveness" or as we call it, "It's a Miracle if You're Ever Forgiven" is by Spencer W.Kimball. If you don't know, he was the prez of TSCC when you and I were babies, I think.

The book primarily deals with how horrible sexual sins are, comparable to murder. Even sexual abuse victims are guilty of the sin to some degree. Read it and get back with us.

Here's hoping that you really are earnest and wanting to know about the dirty secrets/dogma/doctrine of TSCC and not wasting our time and energy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 04:31PM by Itzpapalotl.

http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Forgiveness-Spencer-W-Kimball/dp/0884944441/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1316464072&sr=1-1

You can also read the preface, table of contents and a bit of the first chapter. Plus the reviews, of course.

"[Masturbation] too often leads to a grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation - practiced with another person of the same sex - and thence into total homosexuality."

"Homosexuality is an ugly sin, repugnant to those who find no temptation in it, as well as many past offenders who are seeking a way out of its clutches. It is embarrassing and unpleasant..."

"The law is less severe now, and so regrettably is the community's attitude to these grave sins - another evidence of the deterioration of society. In some countries the act per se is not even illegal."

"Those who would claim that the homosexual is a third sex and that there is nothing wrong in such associations can hardly believe in God or in his scriptures."

"If the abominable practice became universal it would depopulate the earth in a single generation."

"After consideration of the evil aspects, the ugliness and prevalence of the evil of homosexuality, the glorious thing to remember is that it is CURABLE AND FORGIVABLE."

Yes, the church "loves" homosexuals. Loves them so much it wants to cure them by shocking the shit out of them:

http://www.affirmation.org/news/2011_043.shtml

homo sapiens maximus:

I think there are some very good things that the Mormon church teaches, such as a healthy way of living. I took the good teaching from the Mormon church and I left it behind.

I believe I'm a better person because of the way I was raised.

I have not done the research into the church histoy. It may take me some time to come to the same conclusion as most of the people on this board. Please be patient with me.

bezoar:

I apologize. It's been years since I've read the book and I don't have it anymore since I gave it to my mom. The name of the book is "In Quiet Desperation" not "In Silent Desperation".

It's a really good book about a Mormon growing up homosexual.

But you owe it to yourself to research the church's historical/foundational/doctrinal/cultural claims.

How you choose to interpret those things is entirely up to you.

elee:

I will eventually take the time to research for myself the historical/foundational/doctrinal/cultural claims. It will probably take me a very long time to do so.

I sometimes wonder if God made me gay so that I would leave the Mormon church and then find out all this stuff that I've never heard of until I did a google search for "mormon underware". My husbear asked me about it and I didn't have an answer, so I turned to the internet.

Or at least, the desire to explain something quirky about Mormon culture typically leads one to Google. And then: Voila! You find all kinds of interesting information.

Happens here all the time. I can't tell you how many people I've encountered on various boards who were actually researching something for a Sunday School/YM/YW/Gospel Doctrine class they were supposed to teach, and ended up stumbling upon some sort of disconcerting information.

At any rate, take your time. Find a topic you enjoy, or at least feel strongly about, and begin there.

Somebody posted a link in this thread or the other about the electroshock curative "therapy" carried out on homosexuals at BYU. That really is a disgusting and ugly period of Mormon theological abuse and malfeasance.

Good luck to you! It'll definitely be an interesting journey for you. And don't hesitate to ask questions. A lot of folks here have extensive files and bookmarks saved on all sorts of topics.

Welcome.

Erin

HAHA! Yeah, I guess you could say that I was "saved" by the magic underware. LOL :-)

Thanks Erin.

that the Morg is Sexist and Racist, that their scriptures are absurd and the leadership controlling and power hungry? In ALL those wards and branches you didn't have one single asshole bishop, or branch president? The ONLY problem you had with the Morg was they were(are) against Gay Marriage? Sorry, not buying it for a second.

I never really got a chance to get to know any of the bishops or branch presidents. We never stayed in the same place for very long. And sometimes, the bishop would change a few months after we moved some place.

I couldn't reconsile my homosexuality with the teachings of the church. So, I left.

I honeslty didn't learn most of the things that are talked about on these boards until I got here. All of the friends and people I have associated with after leaving the Mormon church are not Mormon.

About the only thing I can think of is the electro shock therapy done to gay men. That's what I thought was barbaric and I had a hard time believing that the Mormon church would do that, but after research into that and Evergreen, that's why I left the church.

Well, that wasn't the only thing. About two months ago I had a friend that said he read a book that said Joseph Smith based the Mormon church on Masonic rights. I couldn't confirm or deny that, but I didn't really care since I wasn't in the church anymore. I told him, "You're probably right." and left it at that.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 05:52PM by wine country girl.

Yes, I'm gay. I have a husbear (not official since I live in Kansas.). We have been together for almost 10 years. I'm living a very happy life.

What you may or may not have been taught may or may not be a part of what anyone else was taught. That is a characteristic of Mormonism. Every Bishop and every family deals with doctrine differently.

Clearly the mileage varies. If I were you, I would read and read and read and get a clear understanding of what Mormonism does for other people and not just you.

I left Mormonism fairly unscathed myself, but that doesn't mean it isn't a toxic and destructive religion.

I firmly believe that Miracle of Forgiveness is one of the most toxic books ever written. I can't stop anyone from reading it, but my advice is to steer clear.