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Posted by: AngelCowgirl ( )
Date: September 21, 2011 12:58PM

http://ldsmag.com/society/ideas-and-society/article/8665?ac=1

The guy starts out by attacking the word CULT as a "slur". What's that argument called where instead of actually debating the issue they attack the person delivering the argument instead? Yeah, well, here we go again.

I couldn't even read the whole thing once he finished griping about how close-minded we are if we dare use the word cult and how Christ was ridiculed too... so, being ridiculed must mean we're right, right?

*Facepalm*

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Posted by: testiphony cant login ( )
Date: September 21, 2011 01:35PM

..the NOM-leaning ones anyway. I could only read about half of it. He simply lies, lies and lies. I'm at least glad he listed the cult bullet points though. Most of the time Mo's think cult is only defined as a devoted religious group (easy to dismiss criticism and point finger at other religions). Simply listing those bullet points might create some cog-dis in people's minds. I know when I was TBM I would have thought pretty hard after reading those points.

Gawd, he lies. "Small? We have 14 million silly!" Well no, you don't. More like 4 million active. The other 10 million could hardly be considered "devoted." Besides, the point said "relatively small," which 14 million definitely is anyway.

"Excessive devotion? Only to the savior!" Moron. Other churches would be more devoted to Jesus by not giving devotion to supposed prophets. He doesn't even address the fact that they have a staunch hierarchy and Mormons give oaths never to speak evil of them. What a load.

"Unethical techniques? Ask the pie-thrower to name one!" OMG just give me that chance. Withholding important info to new prospects, Lack of tithing transparency, funding political campaigns and starting companies while enjoying 501c3 tax exempt status, etc. And that's just what TSCC does *these days*.

And so on. This dude's head is firmly lodged in his ass. This is one reason I avoid the word cult, it's so easily misunderstood by TBMs that they do think it is a pejorative 4-letter word and easy to dismiss. The article is so full of lies though, even for a Mormon. They usually do a better job of serving a lie in between two truths. If I were TBM I would inwardly reprove this guy for helping the other side.

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Posted by: order66 ( )
Date: September 21, 2011 01:44PM

Small?
World population = 6,960,000,000
Mormons = 14,000,000
Active mormons = 4,000,000

% of world = 0.2%
Active % of world = .06%

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Posted by: imalive ( )
Date: September 21, 2011 01:59PM

Would he want to include Duane "Dog" Chapman, the bounty hunter, in that 14 million? Yes, he was baptized into the faith in 1989 but didn't stick around for very long. I like him.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: September 21, 2011 03:30PM

I'll examine one by one his 'tests' (and, add some of my own):

Keep in mind: Social Scientists use their tools for the Prediction & explanation of behavior... A 'dictionary definition' isn't valid, because it's static. A more meaningful one would be 'on the ground', an 'as applied' indication.
These things have everyday meaning, they're NOT confined to a self-selected 'definition'!


•Relatively small group
Well, in terms of World Population, they are.

•Excessive devotion to a person or idea
Excessive is difficult to define, but look at the way that Prophets receive adoration, from the rank-and-file, and from others: 'Donated' services & goods: (limos, jet planes, etc)
Wasn't there a GLOWING story of people chasing Hinkley's car as he left a meeting in a church publication?

FOLLOW THE PROPHET is Fast becoming the #1 value in Mormonism...

There's little denying that theres now a Mormon Royalty...

•Unethical techniques
Oh, like lying? Presenting only one side of a discussion?
Indoctrination of infants/children?

•Control by threats and isolation
In Mormonism, these are OBVIOUS:Threats: loss of family? Eternal Damnation? Oh. Isolation? It's called SHUNNING.

•Powerful group pressures
Peer pressure is VERY POWERFUL! Mormons use it Every Day!

•Fear of consequences of leaving
well documented.

•Abnormal dependency on the group
Again, a somewhat ambiguous term ('Abnormal'). Mormons Certainly are both Clanish & Dependant (it's a MoValue!) aren't they?
FOLLOW THE PROPHET!

•Strange beliefs
could that include: Baptizing dead people? Secret Handshakes, oaths & vows? aren't Miracles strange in general?

some of my own:

MOST IMPORTANT: (please note my mix of Objectives & Methods; they're inter-connected.)

*'they' have responsibility for defining/determining What's useful, what's not; the group (or its leaders) get to decide what the very definition of 'truth' is! Right under this is a somewhat skewed sense of proportions; the Groups priorities are ALWAYS more important that personal goals, rewards, feelings-emotions are subject to their values also;

*Boundaries? the Group gets to determine if not Control those instead of individuals...

*'Blind Obedience' may be denied at the surface level (and said to be offensive)... but it's there, even if slightly disguised or denied.

*Leaders' sayings are held to be infallible; sometimes this also is sub-rosa; Not included in the orientation of prospective members, etc.



1. Seek domination - control of others' lives, far out of proportion to their own population size:

-Prop 8, 'Defense of Marriage', etc. Almost COMPLETE influence over legislatures in ID, UT (AZ, NV,?any exceptions?)' anti-ERA

2. Diminish if not Destroy people's own sense of values & ability to make sound, reasonable decisions; this is a form of dependance. This is accentuated by the 'moving target' of philosophy, Doctrine, or ideology.

3. Manipulate public opinion with Rosy images (press & photos) of 'the cream of the crop'; don't mention less appealing aspects

4. Begin indoctrination AT A VERY EARLY AGE; Before the people (children) are able to understand, before they can apply reason/logic or arrive at independent ideas-decisions.

5. Members' outcome Depends on them financially supporting the group; any benefits of that are minimal or deferred-delayed. Most always, no accountability of those who collect/manage resources to the donors.

6. Closed Meetings; no agendas published. Decision-making is often murky if not undisclosed/informal.

7. Decision makers isolate themselves from the rank-and-file; communication is only one-way; Questions / <gasp> Doubts are Greatly Disrespected!

8. Cults OFTEN strike out when their enemies violate laws/rules/regulations, etc... BUT: when valued members... Insiders... violate the same things... they're often told that since what they did was 'for a Good Cause'... it's endorsed, condoned, excused, rationalized... if not Ignored (until-unless it becomes publicized) !
Mountain Meadows Massacre: Front & Center!

9. People who have searching questions are discarded; made to feel inadequate, Shamed. The substance of questions/objections is seldom addressed; they're quickly Spun into questions of 'Loyalty' to the leaders & program.

10. Channels of communication are Suspect if not Controlled; adherants are counseled to Restrict their information input;

11. Even the most minor of infractions are labled as threatening/undermining the organisation;

12. Greatly Diminished distinction between the cultural & doctrinal requirements.



Edited 14 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2011 10:26PM by guynoirprivateeye.

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Posted by: RAG ( )
Date: September 21, 2011 03:36PM


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Posted by: beulahland ( )
Date: September 21, 2011 03:34PM

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

You know who else bitches about being called a cult and spends crap-tons of money on PR? Scientologists. You know what they have in common with the Morg? They're a multi-billion dollar corporation that thrives on creating an army of brainwashed drones willing to hand over all their money.

I'm not saying the J-Dubs aren't just as culty as the Morg (more so, really), but when's the last time you saw any sort of PR for the J-Dubs besides their standard missionary crap? You only need to worry about your public image so much if your desire is more money and more power.

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Posted by: notamomo ( )
Date: September 21, 2011 03:38PM

If it looks like a cult and it quacks like a cult...it's a cult.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: September 21, 2011 04:58PM


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