I love parties, and am socially confident and at ease--except when I run into Mormons. I live in Utah, and can't move away, because my children live here.

My old Mormon ward members continue to be snobby and back-biting, and they will probably never change. But--I would like them to stop behaving that way toward ME. I have tried forgiveness and empathy for five years, now. This has brought peace with some of my TBM family and a couple of TBM friends--but this has not worked with my Mormon neighbors.

I have tried to avoid them completely, but they show up in our community projects, the PTA, political campaigns, etc, and they tend to take a dominant role. They show up at open houses and weddings, in their tight little cliques. For me, their presence ruins the event.

I have been going to the weddings of my former Cub Scouts and the kids I taught in Primary and Sunday school. Most of these young adults were friends with my children, and they spent a lot of time at my house. The bride and groom are happy to see me, but their parents look away, and start to talk to someone else. I feel like I want to disappear.

Is there any way that can I turn this around? I'm so sick of this, that I just want to get even!

I guess the only thing to do is to get new friends and forget about them. The problem is with them, not you. You can't change other people.

I wish I had friends. I've lived my whole life in the church and really don't have friends. Just people I see at church, neighbors who will say HI once in a while. I never did get the attitude of staying in the church for the social aspect. It was always a zero for me.

And I am a fun guy!

...as a side note, I was on a conference call a little while ago and someone asked about the WCG report being late, and I was thinking "what's winecountrygirl have to do with anything?"

It made me chuckle. Good thing I was on mute. :)

motherwhoknows Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have been going to the weddings of my former Cub
> Scouts and the kids I taught in Primary and Sunday
> school. Most of these young adults were friends
> with my children, and they spent a lot of time at
> my house. The bride and groom are happy to see me,
> but their parents look away, and start to talk to
> someone else. I feel like I want to disappear.
>
> Is there any way that can I turn this around? I'm
> so sick of this, that I just want to get even!

How are you going to get even with someone for ignoring you? Ignore them back? I don't think they will care. My advice is at open houses and weddings make sure the bride and groom get your congrats, and present, and LEAVE. It's a mormon party. How good can it possibly be? How are you going to go to a mormon party and expect not to run into mormons? Stop by WalMart and buy your own can of mixed nuts, and a basketball goal, and it will be like you are still there.

As for the PTA and Community projects, etc. remember you are volunteering, and as soon as it becomes uncomfortable for you, go home. You can't make them treat you like a friend. You can only control how you react to it.

Have your real friends over for your own real party once a month or so, and don't invite anyone who makes you feel uncomfortable.

Remember why they are treating you like this. Deep down they all know you think they are being fooled my a cult, that you are no longer fooled by. Thus in THEIR minds, you think you are better than them, and THEY are not comfortable around YOU.

Nah, you're doing fine. You just can't change some people's nasty attitudes!

Just takes a different attitude, on your part, in my view.
I'll suggest my trick: Put on that sure fire Duck Suit and let their nonsense run off your back. :-)

It's not personal even if it is directed at you. Really, it's about them, not you.

When someone ignores you, you could be grateful! :-) One less person with attitude to deal with.


I'm big on getting involved in other activities that are not totally LDS driven, if that is possible.

Enlist the troops.Take a friend or two with you who are fun to be with and have your own good time right there in front of god and everybody. You will see bleeding ulcers and pill popping within 7.2 minutes of your arrival. An apostate having a good time is the most intolerable thing on earth to theses types.

I always think snubbers and back turners deserve a spectacularly over the top greeting. It forces them to be phony and give you a nice greeting back or show their true colors. After all, how dare you not play your scripted part in the game?!?!

If you do it right, you'll come away with great cocktail conversation for later at the very least.

Faith aside which commands forgiveness even when it's hard, I saw something that made me think in the first episode of the new TV series "Revenge." It was a quote supposedly by Confucius: "He who seeks revenge needs to dig two graves."

have them be phony and talk to you in that sweet, fake, syrup voice?

They don't know how to be real. They are avoiding you because they fear you. The only other alternative, for them, is condescending, and I don't think you want that either.

People who behave like that are not worth your time. Just like WCG said, the best revenge is a life will lived. Be outgoing, but be genuine. If you can't do that, I'd either leave or not go at all.

... that it can't be overcome by a dose of high explosives.

To be, or not to be? ... ***BOOM*** ... Not to be!

Timothy

by a shovel and a long dirt road.

...who shuns me. Most of the time I just ignore her, or hold the door open in an impersonal way as I would for any neighbor. Sometimes I quietly chuckle at her when she turns away from me, and I think that gets to her.

custom printed. Think I'll order some beverage napkins. I used to have some but they are all gone.
I love serving a drink of some sort on one of those napkins! :-)

Confucius said, "Before you seek revenge, first dig two graves"

I know getting back at them may sound good but like the others have said, the best revenge is being happy and living well. Find new friends and leave the old ones behind.

I'm sorry that this has been happening to you.

when I encounter someone who is obviously avoiding me/trying to ignore me, that the must fun I can possibly have in such a situation, is to go up and give them an over the top friendly greeting.

If they're in a group, make sure to make your rounds, acknowledge them all, then just flit away to another group.

If they get snarky, be sure to have something a little snarky, preferably a little personal, to throw at them with a big smile on your face.

Typically they're so floored at your approach, they are speechless. Which is best for everyone.

Really, though, it's just a trick of the mind: if you can stop giving a damn about them and their pathetic anti-social, juvenile behavior, then you will be just fine.

Could it be that they don't know how to deal with you? Mormons who have been told since childhood to only play with mormons may have a hard time dealing with non mormons. Esp. those that used to be mormon, who are obviously (to them) bitter people.

Maybe these insecure people need you to say hi first. Or to say something like, i know we don't attend the same church, but i still like you.

These may or may not help. Me, i'd just do what i came to do and try not to be intimidated. good luck.

but I thought of something that happened to me YEARS AGO. I was still a single adult (age 23 or 24 or so) and I went to a YA activity. My neighbor--he and his family always thought they were better than us--he was in the same car with people I'd grown up with. He didn't really know anyone. So when everyone was introducing themselves--HE KNEW WHO I WAS--but then he said, "Now you are you?" I said, "I live across the street from you" loud and everyone in the car KNEW exactly what he was doing. They were all my friends--not his. He was beyond embarrassed.

Anyway--I know this is hard to do, but you have to learn to JUST NOT CARE. I had to learn it as a single mormon, then as a single mother, and also with my ex's family. I tried to get them to like me and then one day they did something to one of my kids that made me furious. My kid was only 3. I quit caring if they liked me or not. They have loved me ever since. When I quit giving them the time of day--now they beg for my attention. It has been going on FOR YEARS now. I get invited to all family functions--and my ex and I have been sepearated for almost 16 years. They beg me to come to things and even tell me how much they miss me ALL THE TIME. I find it INTERESTING.

If I were you--I would take a gift to the couple after they are married at their home or congratulate them somewhere away from the wedding. I quit going to ward weddings YEARS AGO. If there is someone I taught--and there were many--I give them a gift and leave it at that.

I guess I've done it well because now when I go to funerals, I can't keep the people away from me.

The best thing is to pretend like you are the queen of the event and someone let in the filthy peasants.

Nothing quite shocks people who are trying to ignore you then pretending like they are subhumans who don't belong there and you own the place.

motherwhoknows,

I know how you feel. I live in Utah and our subdivision is one ward. Its horrible. Every person to the front, back, side to side and all up and down the street is LDS. Once they found out I wasnt Mormon anymore and OH especially that my son is turning 8 and WONT be baptized...oh they wont even barely look at me. Lets get together and plot our revenge! LOL

I have the same problem socializing with Mormons, and it is difficult to just turn off your feelings and just "not care what people think."

It helps me to stay true to what I'm doing, and even have an agenda. For example, if your candidate wins, if your school raises money for a new playground, or your community joins together for an activity--the mission is accomplished. So what if you had to endure a few snarks along the way. Also, if your agenda is spreading good cheer and having fun at a party--don't let the frowny faces stop you! I have an out-going friend who counts sneers--actually keeps score--and the more sneers he gets, the more successful he's been at "working the room." He's a very successful real estate agent.

Thanks for this thread. I love the ideas on this. I tend to stay home from all Mormon parties, and order the wedding gifts mailed from the gift registry.

You know, Mormons as a group don't appreciate the same things most people like. They don't value "inner peace" happiness, or a good personality/ They don't appreciate having a "fun guy" at a party, or loud laughter, or relaxing alcoholic beverages, or cool music--have you ever noticed? As a TBM in Utah, coming from Sunny California, I used to go by the motto: "Smile--people will wonder what you're up to." Nothing bugs the RS women more than a smiling, well-heeled, SLENDER single woman.

If you want to get revenge, Mother Who Knows, APPEAR to live well. Wear something expensive, lose weight, smile a lot, and say very little. Yes, Cl2, there is power in the "take-you-or-leave-you" attitude.

Try "prevenge"--do unto others first!

If you want to attend and the bride and groom are happy to see you, I don't see why you shouldn't go, why let those snob people make that decision for you. Now, don't allow them to make you feel uncomfortable, just show them how happy you are. I would even wear a beautiful sleeveless dress.

A friend of mine gave me one piece of advise that I've tresured. We were both active TBM mormons and of course sometimes we would run into people who were rude, snobish or just didn't talk to members of old wards. She said 'if someone makes you uncomfortable, is looking up and down at what you're wearing or even shunning you, look at them and when you make eye contact say HI with the biggest happiest smile and a confident voice, they will be thrown off guard.' Well, it took a while for me to be able to do that and I've only done it a few times but I've loved the reaction and the smile it puts on my own face.

I like forespal's words:

"Smile--people will wonder what you're up to."

As always, there is lots of good and varied advise already. Good luck,

D

You have all made me feel better. Some of you have had similar experiences, and you seem to remain sane and happy, in spite of the Mormon rudeness.

I do like the idea of not allowing those rude people to decide where I am to go, and how I'm going to act. In my heart, I still would like to be friendly and kind. Yeah--if my enthusiastic friendliness makes them angry or suspicious--that is their problem. My friends (I do have some non-Mormon friends) seem to enjoy me.

I'm going to save all your answers, because I will need reminding. So much of my recovery seems to be on-going, and it is disheartening to backslide.

I'm going to put on my duck suit. I like that analogy, because it is a way of protecting yourself, yet still accepting that you have feelings. A suit is on the surface. Yeah, I want a sleeveless, mini-skirted duck suit!

Assertiveness seems to annoy Mormons, so I think I'll dust off my old assertiveness training. As Cl 2 wrote, trying to please others seems to be less effective than just turning away and going in your own direction. Maybe someone will follow. I'm happy for her success!

OMG! I am seriously going to have my own basketball hoop and peanut party! I'm not kidding. It would be hilarious! I mean, complete with the butcher paper taped onto the table, the folding chairs, which I will make my guests put away afterwards, the paper plates and the giant trash can, the jello salad and mystery casserole--on second thought, just the hoop and huts will suffice.

I do like the personal touch of taking the time to deliver a wedding gift to the bride or groom at their house, at the door. I will not go into their house, where I'm not welcome, but briefly and sincerely wish them good luck on the doorstep, then scurry back to my car, with the motor running, and be on my way. I will give no explanation or excuse about the reception, either. Hey--no standing in a long reception line, either!

Thanks, everyone!

are controlled and dictated by the words of a failed-treasure hunter and notorious philanderer. In other words, these are people who think that the epitome of spirituality and good living is to ponder the words of a con-artist, who pretended to get messages from a rock (that looked like a goat turd) when he put it in his hat and then stuffed his face in the hat to block out the light.

These are people who think the greatest leader in the world is an old corporate hack gasbag named Monson.

These are people who think that the most wonderful experience possible in this life is to go into a windowless room, dressed up in polyester white uniforms in order to practice funny handshakes and pledge their loyalty to their church.

These are people who refuse to drink coffee because a mentally ill old fart named Heber J. Grant was obsessed with prohibition and decided to force his views on all Mormons based on the pretense that he was speaking for God.

All in all, I think you've already got your revenge--and in great abundance. And the beauty of it is that they are doing it to themselves.

Revenge without guilt. Revenge without having to do anything but watch them wallow in their own misery. What more could I want?

This is just typical bad, Mormon behavior. If we retaliated vengefully for this, none of us would be posting. We'd be too busy burning down temples. Here's what you do. You take whatever type of vacation or get away you can afford and go somewhere ELSE even if its just a weekend and you be YOURSELF. Bring your feisty self home. Fuck them. You are a Child of Us. They may pride themselves being a Child of God, but their god doesn't have their back like we have yours. Don't ever, ever let any of those condescending bitches make you feel less than. You are a fully developed child of ours.

so that the Mormon-dominated events are a smaller percentage of your social interaction. There are plenty of activities that Mormons don't have time for with all the bathroom-cleaning and callings. Plus Mormons are in short supply at intellectual events that focus on critical thinking or philosophical ideas.

Think of the interests you didn't have time for when you Were Mormon and go for it. Now's the time to take a class in sign language or tatting--something that's interesting to YOU.

Date yourself. I always advise this because it put me in touch with the shocking-at-first realization that all those years, other than an occasional movie alone, I never planned an activity for just myself. And when I was alone, it didn't seem "worth it" to plan something just for me.

If you enrich your life with rock-hunting or getting that dog breed you always wanted but never had time to brush, etc, etc, you will find yourself caring less and less about their circular dull lives and their programmed opinions and shunning.

YOU threaten THEM because of your freedom to do whatever you want with your life and the wonderful privacy you enjoy. They are probably thinking earth-shaking spiritual thoughts about the war in heaven? No, they are wondering if you own a dildo. And maybe a vibrator. You look so flushed and happy. Yeah, it's a vibrator.

Anagrammy

Forgiveness isn't given for the benefit of the recipient. It's given for the benefit of the giver.

Forgiving someone does not mean trusting them again, or letting them back into your life again. It means drawing a boundary, letting go, and moving on. It means saying, "I'm not going to dwell on what they did anymore." It does not mean letting them get off scot-free.

You have the right to draw boundaries. That isn't precluded by forgiveness. There's a couple of people I'm not ready to stop dwelling on... but there's also a lot of people that I realize I *have* forgiven, even if I also know that letting them back into my life would not be good for either of us.

And the boundary that you probably need to draw here is: if you see them at an event, you don't engage them and you don't allow yourself to be engaged by them. You have no obligation to interact with them even if you happen to be at the same event. Focus on the people you like, and ignore the people you don't. Simple. (Note that it may not be easy at first, but it is simple.) Conversely, you can draw the boundary by saying to any of those who try to engage that you are not interested in interacting with them, and then leave. Either way, they'll get the point. Enjoy the duck suit. ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2011 12:33PM by unbeliever42.

unbeliever42 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forgiveness isn't given for the benefit of the
> recipient. It's given for the benefit of the
> giver.
>
> Forgiving someone does not mean trusting them
> again, or letting them back into your life again.
> It means drawing a boundary, letting go, and
> moving on. It means saying, "I'm not going to
> dwell on what they did anymore." It does not mean
> letting them get off scot-free.
>
> You have the right to draw boundaries. That isn't
> precluded by forgiveness. There's a couple of
> people I'm not ready to stop dwelling on... but
> there's also a lot of people that I realize I
> *have* forgiven, even if I also know that letting
> them back into my life would not be good for
> either of us.
>
> And the boundary that you probably need to draw
> here is: if you see them at an event, you don't
> engage them and you don't allow yourself to be
> engaged by them. You have no obligation to
> interact with them even if you happen to be at the
> same event. Focus on the people you like, and
> ignore the people you don't. Simple. (Note that it
> may not be easy at first, but it is simple.)
> Conversely, you can draw the boundary by saying to
> any of those who try to engage that you are not
> interested in interacting with them, and then
> leave. Either way, they'll get the point. Enjoy
> the duck suit. ;)


I agree with this advise. It's right on target.
Know what forgiveness really means, and set those boundaries (Mormons have so few, I can't remember one! )
Ya, and keep a Duck Suit in the car! :-)