So a bunch of nevermo friends and I know a Mormon family at a Catholic grad school. The wife is pregnant with a child that has a condition that is not compatible with life. The child will die before or shortly after birth. These nevermo moms want to know how Mormon theology (aka made-up nonsense) will apply in this situation so that they know how to respond appropriately and how to help if needed. Would an abortion have been allowed in LDS teaching? Will church people acknowledge this loss? Will there be a funeral? What happens to the child's soul according to LDS theology? The baby is due soon, and these moms want to be supportive! Thanks in advance!

"Have another baby soon, so that the spirit of the lost baby will return to you."

You have got to be kidding me..Have another baby soon...typical Mormon logic. No wonder I left this crazy cult!

The mother did miscarry the baby before she came to term. In a terrible twist of fate, another neighbor and ward member had twins the same day. All 3 babies were girls.

Ugh, that was my guess from my years of reading here and my years of living in a grad school complex with lots of LDS.

Read this, it covers all angles:

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/sexuality/abortion.html

"It's regrettable that you weren't married in the temple so that this child would belong to you in heaven."

I believe there will be a funeral for the child and the family will be reassured by a repetition of the "plan of salvation". They'll hear, "We can't be sure what God's purpose was for this child but we need to trust that there is a reason he(she) was called home."

Personally, I'd say something to the family like, "I hope you can find comfort in your faith."

experience for the family. I can only speak from my experience. In similar cases I knew personally, over the years, there was a funeral for the child and the grave dedicated. There was also the belief by Mormons that some spirits are so righteous they don't need to be tested in this life and go straight to the afterlife to await exultation. That is often a comfort to the believers.
Being supportive is about offering comfort: I'm so sorry for your loss. A hug. Tears. That is how I dealt with it with others.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/doctrines/stillborn_children.htm Seems very heartless.

Thank you, Susie. I thought I remembered some of that as well about not needing testing. For a theological question, this seems even more inconclusive than most, but it is similarly confusing in the Protestant tradition.

imsurrounded Wrote:
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> Thank you, Susie. I thought I remembered some of
> that as well about not needing testing. For a
> theological question, this seems even more
> inconclusive than most, but it is similarly
> confusing in the Protestant tradition.

Yes, and then there are the dozens of other religions that are probably just as confusing! :-)

My view, is that it's OK to ask what their beliefs are about the death of the child.

As a mother who went through births, and had miscarriages, I can't imagine giving birth to a deceased baby. That would be horrific, I think.

imsurrounded Wrote:
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> http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/doctrines
> /stillborn_children.htm Seems very heartless.


Such is the Mormon world. It's about as black and white as it gets.

Sorry.

Ron

First, let me say what a sad situation this must be for your friend and I would hope that you would confort her the same way you would comfort any of your friends should something this tragic ever happen.

To answer your questions.

Would an abortion have been allowed in LDS teaching? Yes, if the health of the mother is in jeapardy or if the fetus has already passed on. Many still decide to go full term for the chance that they will get to hold their child at least once before they pass on.

Will church people acknowledge this loss? Of course. Some even bless the child if desired to help both parents cope with the loss.

Will there be a funeral? Depends on the family. Miscarriage or still birth typically not a public funeral, but a private family matter. I have been to a church funeral for a family that lost an infant that lived for only 15 minutes or so. No official policy, but what the family prefers.

What happens to the child's soul according to LDS theology? They believe that the child returns to Heavenly Father and receives exaltation and eternal life. Also, that the parents will be reunited after this life with their child.

additionally, it often believed that the only thing the child's spirit needed to fulfill his (or her) requirements to receive exaltation was to gain a body. Done! Colloquially, it is believed that the child's spirit was so righteous in the pre-existence, it didn't need to be "tested" or "proved" in this life.

For what it's worth--go online and check--there are places (one in Nebraska) that cater to this specific situation. It's a clinic-type birhting center where children who have either died in utero or will die at birth can be born in a family environment (as opposed to a hospital one with live babies being born down the hall). The birth, death and recovery of the family take place on the familys' time table, not a hospital one and the family get to see, hold and touch the baby and baptize or perform any other religious ordinances according to their belief system. Abortion at this late a stage would only cause further trauma--this late it must be acknowldeged that there was, indeed, a child. I am so sorry for this family--my thoughts and prayers are with them.

nwmcare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For what it's worth--go online and check--there
> are places (one in Nebraska) that cater to this
> specific situation. It's a clinic-type birhting
> center where children who have either died in
> utero or will die at birth can be born in a family
> environment (as opposed to a hospital one with
> live babies being born down the hall). The birth,
> death and recovery of the family take place on the
> familys' time table, not a hospital one and the
> family get to see, hold and touch the baby and
> baptize or perform any other religious ordinances
> according to their belief system. Abortion at this
> late a stage would only cause further trauma--this
> late it must be acknowldeged that there was,
> indeed, a child. I am so sorry for this
> family--my thoughts and prayers are with them.

I have never heard of this. What a wonderful idea. I hope people that need it can take advantage of it.

You have illuminated so many confusing situations for me over the years!

My daughter was stillborn 20 years ago; we had a mormon funeral and grave dedication.

The lovely bishop at the time conducted the service and stayed away from all the usual mormon funeral preaching; his understanding of stillbirths was that they were perfect spirits who had no need of life here, only a body so that they would go straight to the celestial kingdom.

It gave me an enormous amount of comfort at a very hard time in my life.

I got taught the same thing as Sparta. The main thing is to not let religion get in the way of comforting the family.

Some mormons believe that a miscarried baby will return as the next baby.. some believe that they will have the chance to raise te child in the next life and some believe that it did not have a spirit yet. I don't think it's wise for anyone to assume that the parents of this child believe a certain way.

A simple.. we are so sorry for your loss... may God provide you with comfort in this time of grief.. is the best bet..

It IS one of the many things that led me on the path out the door.

I was told that "Don't worry, his spirit will return in a new body". No reason to mourn at all. If you guys just strengthened your marriage by attending the temple, readin your scriptures and prayer, this wouldn't have happened in the first place.

I have had a few friends who had stillbirths in the LDS church. This has been 25 years or so ago (since I'm in my 50s now). The leaders without fail from my experience told the mothers that because the baby didn't breathe, it was not "viable" and would not be their child. Every one of my friends named their babies and are CERTAIN that child is their's.

One girl in our ward growing up--she had twins who were stillborn. Her father was the SP and told her that they were not her's as they were not viable. I thought HOW CRUEL.

I cannot believe that people don't leave over this issue.

yes that was my understanding as well. The key difference was the breath.

DW thought for years (thanks to Mo doctrines) that our infant who died at birth was lost to her, until she realized that he actually did breathe as he struggled to live, and so therefore would be her child under the covenant.

I had twins with TTTS, discussed with my bishop after I had made the decision to abort, based on extensive medical research and consultation with the OB. There was a third fetus unaffected, which led to the decision to abort the twins (to save his life). Bishop made no opinion other than to agree with my decision, and thanked me for consulting him.

I later read a number of church doctrines and opinions on the subject. Opinions vary widely. Doctrine is non-specific. A couple of people in the ward were very kind to me during this time - people who had recently experienced a loss, and understood.