After the creepy bloody penalty pantomimes that was the next dorkiest element of the temple ceremony to me. The whole thing is full of dorkiness to the lord, but those two elements bothered me the most.

Well, I guess the Lord listened to my still small voice and made the General Authorities get rid of the bloody penalty pantomimes AND the "Five Points of Fellowship." I guess I'm really the boss of the General Authorities. ;o)

Anyway, it sure does seem odd to me that they could get rid of such a huge part of the ceremony like that without any explanation. It's even odder that the zombies of zion, the great mass of gullible tithepayers, the sheeple, the programmed morgbots would just go along with it without asking a single question, without batting an eye and without even asking "where's my big funky hug?" when they went through the temple after the change. Really amazing.

Can they claim that it wasn't an important part of the ceremony? I mean it was actually the climax of the whole thing. It was that special moment of closeness with the mystery man behind the bedsheet JUST BEFORE you enter the Celestial Kingdom, so to speak. Knee-to-knee, foot-to-foot, cheek-to-cheek, mouth-to-ear, embracing arms and a chance to whisper those special passwords that you can only learn in the temple, followed by a big welcome into the bordello/hotel waiting room that symbolized the Celestial Kingdom.

If it mattered before, removal of the Five Points Of Fellowship from the finale of The Endowment is an apostate act of "changed the ordinances" (Isaiah). If it did not matter before, why was this Masonic relic in The Endowment in first place? Is Smith not quoted something to the effect everything in The Endowment mattered to lead a soul to salvation?

Yes, I remember it. It was awkward.

I remember the 5 points ,when they changed it it was another crack in the foundation

I worked in the LA temple for over a year and used the 5....or 6...points of fellowship daily.....

I remember what I called the boob hug. Those creepy old men would grab you twice, tighter the second time to get a nice bounce.

Seriously and sometimes you could tell they were thrilled to see ya!

Anagrammy

A "temple song" I made up for the "not singing lullabys" thread, but it seems to fit this one too:


Temple Song:

"We don't slit our throats no more,
Or rip out our guts.
They got rid of all that gore,
No ifs ands or buts.

"The five points of fellowship,
Got thrown out in the fix,
'Cause with Patriarchal grip
It sometimes turned to six.

"The whole thing was all redone,
They took out a chunk,
In washing and anointing fun,
They don't touch my junk.

"So if you get a chance to go,
Do it without fail.
Everything is apropos,
No more 'pay lay ale.'"

Read here:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/whytemplechanges.shtml


Also, Brent Metcalfe has written a brief article which shows that this part of the Masonic ceremony is a late edition (click on "Temple Essays" then on "Brent Lee Metcalfe, Whence and Whither the Five Points of Fellowship? [updated 01.01.02])":

http://mormonscripturestudies.com/global/essaywin/boabrtemframe.asp

"Oh, what is revelation, you ask? Sometimes it's a still small voice--very still and very small and sometimes its the result of a marketing survey to determine what's popular and what's not in the temple ceremony...and sometimes it's god knocking that coin to either the 'tails' side or the 'heads' side. But we don't need much revelation. Joseph Smith got more than enough. Really, way more than enough and then Brigham Young added more on top of that. What we need to do is get rid of a lot of excess revelation. It builds up like plaque on your teeth or mildew around your bathtub, you know...."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 12:08AM by karin.

The thing that I think is interesting is not that they changed something when it no longer meant the same thing due to a cultural shift, but that they did not replace it with anything. They only drop things. It would seem they don't understand "it" enough to add an equivalent metaphor or what have you, to teach those all important heavenly instructions ;-).

That's a good point

"What is that?"

"The second token of the Melchizedek Priesthood or sure sign of the nail."

"Has it a name?"

"Yes"

"Will you give it to me?"

"I will upon the five points of fellowship throught the veil"

Motherfucker!! You kneed me in the figs!

"Health in the navel, marrow in the bones, stregth in the loins and in the sinews. Power in the priesthood be upon me and my posterity through all generations and throughout eternity"

"That is correct"

sorry about the knee thing.

Ron

err..."..and throughout all eternity."

Don't worry...it isn't on the test!

There was a kind of mystery about the temple and because I was not 'allowed' to go due to inactive husband I used to pay close attention whenever someone said something about the temple.

One day in sacrament meeting there was an announcement for all endowed members to meet in the cultural hall to fill in a survey. I was dying to be in the meeting and read the survey. I wanted to know.

After the following GC there were people bearing their testimonies that the temple was so special that people should go again and it was much better, blah blah blah.

Then it was turn to go. I did not experience the five points of fellowship but was very very uncomfortable with the washng and annointment. I kept closing my eyes and praying to understand, to receive revelation or confirmation. I went through the endownment and even though it was foreign to me, I kept trying to understand and to feel that special je ne se qua that people spoke of. At the end I thought we all looked like old testament people and I was cool with that. A sister came to me and said "it wasn't what you expected, is it? you need to come often to understand"


A few years later a friend who is about my age and I went to the temple together, we went a few times together. One day he said, isn't it much better after the changes? I looked at him and said what changes, he tried to cover up and I said I knew there were changes but would he tell me what they were. No, he couldn't. He thought that I had been to the temple before the changes and apologized.

I read about temple changes years after thanks to Richard Packman's writings and I thought, wow, it was already so uncomfortable 'hugging' a stranger through the veil without the five points. I can imagine how ackward that was. I do remember the open poncho and more standing up and sitting down.

Attendance is still very low, at least on my neck of the wood, what will they change next?

D

So, now that the penalties have been taken out, is there anything in the ceremony that says "don't tell anyone."

It's not secret it's stupid.

for the perfect, true church and the unchangeable gospel of the Lord.