You asked if the Bible was factual. Huh? That has nothing to do with whether Zeitgest contains reliable information. Nobody was claiming that the Bible is factual anyway, much less the word of God. You coment was a total non sequitor. It is possible for two different works to both be wrong. The Bible is mythology with a little history mixed in and Zeitgeist is bullcrap. Furthermore greek god clearly stated that he is not a Christian and does not believe in organized religion. Is there some part of that which you do not understand?

That was a fun thread.

Zeitgeist is an interesting documentary/movie. It is too bad that some of the claims about Christianity's ties to ancient religions were exaggerated.

Specifically, the Egyptian stuff was proven to be a fraud like 60 years ago, if I remember correctly.

Still, it is an enjoyable place to put one's thoughts.

I don't find deliberately giving out false information particularly fun. In fact, I get a bit upset and writers and movie makers who are either to lazy to do their research or who make stuff up to 'prove'their claims. As you could see from the thread, people believe that crap and it just contributes to the dumbing down of America.The thread was fun, but I don't feel that way about Zeitgeist.

I guess I look at everything different. I really don't care who is spreading misinformation. The only folks who are to blame are those who don't do their own research and are skeptical of everything.

Person A is dumb because of person A, not because of a video that has some false info.

"I don't find deliberately giving out false information particularly fun."

I'm not trying to judge you or anything, but life must be pretty boring without the occasional movie or fictional novel. Misinformation, at least for me, can be a fun experience.

Yes, I asked if the bible was factual, and I see that you will not answer that question. Zeitgeist raises questions about the VALIDITY OF THE BIBLE so looking at which is more factual, the bible or zeitgeist is quite valid, at least for rational thinkers.

I have said several times that the Bible isn't factual in most cases. I also never said that Zeitgest got everything wrong. I said it got a lot wong and it did. More proof that you don't actually read posts before you spout off.

but demand absolute proof that things like Zeitgeist is true?

My point is not about YOU, bona, my point is about those that DO believe the bible that then demand proof of things that contradict the bible.

Because people have a right to believe in the Bible, Zeitgeist, Bigfoot, Nessie, unicorns or fairies and they don't have to justify themselves to you.They also have a right disbelieve one stupid thing and accept another stupid thing as fact.We also have a right to point out the errors and they have a right to reject the facts if they want.

Like I said, you have a right to believe in any stupid thing you want and I have a right to point out the fallacies, just as you have the right to point out what you think is false.

But I am not the one that believes stupid stuff bona, so I don't believe what you say.

And the day you can use valid logic to make a point is the day I will pay attention.

My point was a valid one. People that defend the incarcerate, contradictory, bigoted, and malicious bible have no business picking at those vids.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 12:44AM by MJ.

Pot to kettle.

Pathetic bona, are you getting a five year old to help you now>?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 12:49AM by MJ.

Fiction is fine, but Zeitgeist proports to be scholarly.That is the difference. Most people do not expect movies or novels , even ones which deal with historical events to be completely accurate.They expect more of documentaries although they probably shouldn't. I do agree that the viewer has some responsiblity to check out sources, but that doesn't absolve the producers of their responsibility to do some elementary research and to tell the truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 12:26AM by bona dea.

Many claim the bible to be true. They claim it to be true despite glaring errors, atrocities and other BS.

But to claim something like Zeitgeist is true, watch out, ya have to PROVE EVER DETAIL.

So, why the double standard? Why can people believe the bible is true but demand absolute proof of things that contradict it?

To me, at least, it makes sense to classify Zeitgeist, at least the ancient religions part of it, as false. A significant amount of that was based on already disproven claims.

Of course, Zeitgeist is a huge film, with tons and tons of information and sections. If we were to classify it as true or false, we would have to classify the sections themselves (such as the 9/11 section, the financial section, etc).

I never made that claim. IMHO, though, the videos were more factual than the bible.

"IMHO, though, the videos were more factual than the bible."

I would have to agree with you on this point as well.

That hardly makes Zeitgeist accurate

Zeitgeist is 97 percent lies and the bible only 98, tell you what though . . . Zeitgeist lied about people I know, and Arachya whatever her name is lied to my face and when I called her on it she deleted me and refused to talk about what a liar she was.

I don't know any 2800 year old sheepherders, or self loathing gays like Paul, I do know arachya - she is a major liar taht pisses me off more than paul or sheepherders who didnt know any better

NOT.

but hey, I am not founding my belief system on the videos, lots of people do define their whole belief system on the bible even though you claim it is 98% false. I am saying that people that do believe in something that is 98% false have no business being critical of ANYTHING.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 01:37AM by MJ.

Nevermind. I see that bona dea has covered my bases. Too bad there isn't a "delete post" button.

Admin?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 12:22AM by greekgod.

Why don't you go argue with the people who believe the Bible then? Nobody on any of these threads said they believe in it so why are you trying to pick a fight with us? Maybe you just like to fight.Geez! Yes, some people have a double standard, but I don't have to answer for them or explain their reasoning.

Zeitgeist has plenty of things wrong and it purports to be a serious documentary.Regardless of the Bible, Zeitgeist is crap.

My point WAS DIRECTED at those that believe the bible, but you and your vendetta had to jump in and make it your business, so I am debating you on YOUR WILLINGNESS to jump up to defend those that believe in the bible. I mean seriously bona, YOU STARTED THIS THREAD BUY CALLING ME OUT EVEN THOUGH I WAS NOT ADDRESSING YOU.Um, because YOU jumped in and made it all about YOU.

Seriously, you jump in where I was NOT addressing you, then you call me out my moniker then you ask me why I am debating you? Seriously bona, get real.

And no, I am not saying you should not respond, but if you do, then you are joining the debate, so don't whine that I'm the one debating you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 12:32AM by MJ.

OMG. YOu are incredible. I started a new thread for one reason only-the original thread closed before I could make a point. Exactly how am I making it all about me? Good Lord. Good night.

MJ. You comparison of faith in the bible and faith in Zeitgeist is a strange one indeed.

Why indeed should people try to prove every detail of Zeitgeist? First, look at that question in context. You ask that in a RfM forum where people are generally skeptical of truth claims especially as it regards religion.

We of all people know that to believe false information without even doing a slight bit of research just because it "feels good" is not a good thing. That was the whole reason why we fell for the Mormon bullshit in the first place.

People SHOULD research Zeitgeist and SHOULD research the bible before blindly accepting either. The degree to which you research either may vary, and I suppose you could contend that point, but I don't know if you think I'm living a double standard here.

If you want to we could turn this into a philosophy forum and debate about the nature of "truth" and what constitutes a genuine belief, but I don't have that much time.

To allow people to use this misinformation (Or is it, Timothy? You have yet to disprove this) as justification for their anti-religion sentiments is undermining the position of others who base it on more valid reasoning.

And my point is just what you are saying, both should be researched. The bible should not be blindly defended, while those that blindly defend the bible pick at details of those that disagree.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 12:41AM by MJ.

I have deleted most of the comment of this post. I am virtually finished with this discussion.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 12:45AM by greekgod.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 12:46AM by MJ.

MJ just likes to argue, epecially with me.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha.

It was BONA that STARTED the argument by starting a new thread and addressing it to ME specifically.

I didn't say ANYTHING to bona in the previous thread, so SHE IS PICKING THIS FIGHT.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 12:53AM by MJ.

+1

It is wrong to blindly believe the bible then rant at the the vids.

Raptor Jesus Lives.

Blessed art thou, Greekgod.

For I have understood the shit you were trying to put down.

To check the validity of any of the claims in Zeitgeist, download the guide, "ZEITGEIST: THE MOVIE COMPANION SOURCE GUIDE."

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/Zeitgeist,%20The%20Movie-%20Companion%20Guide%20PDF.pdf

Peter Joseph doesn't appear to be afraid of scrutiny.

Bookmarked. I'll take a look at it. Thanks.

He may not be afraid of scrutiny but that doesn't mean the movie is accurate. Just saying.

I started skimming it and it seems he has some solid documentation. Of course I haven't checked deeply into it yet, there is a lot there.

If it was written by the people who wrote the movie, I cannot believe it is accurate. I did read a bit and he quotes Achyra S who is a hack who will not even tell us where she got her degree or exactly what it is in. Her book is self published because she couldn''t find a serious publisher.That says a lot IMO Even Freke and Gandy were able to get there work published, bad as it is, but Achyra couldn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 01:03AM by bona dea.

Thought so.

I read some of it. Obviously you haven't read it either, you said so yourself, I'll read it later, but why should I expect it to be different than the film since it is written by the same people?As far as sources, I have already researched Achyra s, one of the main contributors. She is a hack and I have no reason to take her seriously. I have already read her theories, know her credentials or lack thereof. I don't need to do so again.

I am ONLY stating that you should not dismiss it because and I quote you "I cannot believe it is accurate"

And I explained why I cannot believe it is accurate. I considered the sources and all they got wrong. This is a companion piece to a flawed work, written by the same guy who produced said flawed work. His source is a woman who goes by a false name, won't tell us her credentials, who has been debunked and who had to publish her book herself at her own expense. Hmm, tell me why I should expect this companion piece to be more accurate than the movie?

And why should we believe YOU anyway?

Calling someone a hack and questioning his credentials does NOT MAKE THEM WRONG. It is a logical fallacy to do such.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 01:18AM by MJ.

You shouldn't believe me. You should do some research and check credentials. I am not holding my breath though. As far as logical fallacies, you are the master of them. If you want to believe in Zeitgeist and if you want to believe Achyra S is a fine scholar, be my guest. I'm done with this, Night.

Where you seem to worship credentials and see nothing else. Again credentials does not mean they are right or wrong. You are wrong for trying to make the truth about this as being about credentials,. but if that is all you have, you are going to stick with it no matter what, I know that much about you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2011 01:28AM by MJ.

Yawn

Logic seems to be of no interest to you.

Again, it is BAD LOGIC to claim that a person's creditable or lack of them makes them right or wrong.

But don't let THAT stand in the way of defending what you "cannot believe"