Based on the stories in the sciptures, I've come to the conclusion that God is kind of a narcissistic asshole. Am I wrong? I mean, the Abraham and Isaac story...first you make Sarah wait UNTIL SHE'S 90 to have a child--even though you promised her one, and even though infertility was a huge shame to women in the day--then you tell hubby to kill said son to prove how faithful to you he'll be. And we're supposed to ADMIRE him for being willing to do it? Sure, God stopped him (crisis averted), but what the hell?

Making the Israelites wander for 40 years--all because you're a little butt-hurt that they're dancing around that golden calf. You can't worship anything else ever. ME, ME ME!! Weren't the 10 commandments still pretty new then? Hell, they're a more than a couple thousand years old at this point and we aren't all that great about keeping them.

Or Job--God gets into a little bet with Satan to prove how much Job loves God--so Job loses EVERYTHING, but hey, he still praises God. Good for you Job!!

Or what about Nephi being asked to slay Laban. YOU'RE GOD!!!! Why do you need to make someone else commit murder for you? Why can't you cause a deep sleep or a stupor of thought to come over him so that Nephi can heist Laban's clothes and get the plates. It's not that hard.

I'm sure I'll think of more later. I know there's quite a few.

yup, exactly!!

Didn't someone in the bible turn over his daughters to a violent mob in order to save a couple of angles?

Lot was rewarded by God, in part, for offering his daughters up to a Mob to be raped.

And angels of god couldn't take care of themselves--what the fuck good is having the ministering of angels?

There is * no God! There, I've said it!







* (probably)

I find it odd that Christians claim that mankind is too sinful to enter into the presence of God. Here's a brief list of things perpetrated by their deity that I have never done:

-Had a love-child with my daughter

-Let my bastard son get nailed to a tree

-Commanded my armies to kill every man, woman, child and cow and steal their land

-Used my disciples as contract killers to dispatch my enemies

-Destroyed the world with a massive flood

-Kick my kids out of the house for eating fruit

-Hid evidence of my existence from the world, filled the earth with scientific red herrings, and then punished everyone who didn't believe in me

Compared with God, I'm the very definition of purity.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2011 05:10PM by homo sapiens maximus.

My thoughts exactly. So what about him are we supposed to be worshiping? Where did I read this--probably on someone else's post--but what kind of being tests his living creations to see who's good enough to come back to him?

My theory: If there is a god, he is like a petulant child and we are all ants in his little farm. Do what I want or I'll drown you, or burn you, or take away your food...Oh, look at you all begging for mercy, well perhaps I'll oblige and then you'll owe me big time...

Both of you need to read my post below. I am not a Christian nor an apologist, but most of what you are criticizing is Mormon and /or Fundie belief and is not shared by many mainstream Christians.If you are going to criticize peoples' beliefs you will be a lot more credible if you know what those beliefs actually are. Just a thought.Two points here that often get lost on this board.

1.Mormon beliefs are often very different than Christian beliefs. This is particularly true in such things as the nature of God(Trinity v Godhead), the conception of Christ, Virgiin Birth, means of salvation, pre existence and many other things.

2.Christian believe widely different things. Many Christians are not Fundamentalists, Biblical literalists, anti gay,anti science creationists, Republican or any of the other things many posters assume they are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2011 05:38PM by bona dea.

I read your post, but I'm not buying it. Historically, the OT was considered an authentic accounting of actual events, and many Christians today still believe it. The idea that biblical stories are purely allegorical is religious revisionism at best. I agree that the stories are largely myth; that won't stop me from condemning their depictions of the Israelite deity (or deities, however you wish to interpret the text).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2011 05:53PM by homo sapiens maximus.

That in and of itself is appalling.

I suggest you do some reading such as Karen Armstrong's "The Bible A Biography" and educate yourself because, frankly you don't know what you are talking about. St Augustine didn't believe the Bible was literal and neither did the many of the Protestant founders.You can't get ore historical than that. You can buy it or not, but you are wrong. Some Christians, historically and today are Biblical literalists and some are not. The same goes for Jews.Please, educate yourself.

Thank you, I'm quite aware that not every Christian and Jew throughout history have regarded the books of the Bible as accurate retellings of real events, but the predominant belief has always been that the stories should be regarded as historically accurate. Anyway, I don't care if you or anyone else believes the Bible is a compilation of allegories; it presents an image of God that is repugnant and unworthy of adoration. You may perceive something fundamentally different from the scriptures, and that's fine, but it doesn't delegitimize my observation.

Thanks for the book suggestion. I'll pick it up soon.

My issue with you is misrepresenting Christian beliefs in Mormon terms. God is not Mary's father because there was no pre existence and the soul is created at conception, he didn't have sex with her because whe conceived through the Holy Spirit while remaining a virgin ( no sex, no familial relationship ergo no incest), and God did not sacrifice his Son because the Father and Son and are one and the same. Those are traditional Christian beliefs and you were talking about the Christian God, not the Mormon God.You also seemed to assume that all Christians take the OT literally. If you know better, you might want to be more precise. My issue is not that the Biblical God is not worthy of criticism. IMO, he is. My issue is that you are condemning Christians for believing in things that many don't believe in such a Biblical literalism . You are also putting a real Mormon spin on the Atonement, the Virgin Birth and Mary being God's spirit daughter.

No, I just put an absurdly literalist spin on the stories. Think "fractured fairytales." This seemed to be a pretty informal thread, and I was grooving on the vibe. If it was more serious I might have been more thought and care into my words.

Please calm yourself. I'm not trying to deconvert anyone, and if a person is so naive that they would regard some random post by an anonymous stranger with any sort of authority, then that's on them.

Is to note that when those that compiled the bible into the "Holy Bible", they did NOT include the Old TESTAMENT as a collection of myths/stories that were only to teach a lesson and needed to be interpreted.

They included it as a TESTAMENT, Just like the new TESTAMENT with no distinction that says one or the other is literally true or not.

It seems clear to me that both the old and the new testaments were meant to be taken as a HOLY covenant with god, "covenant with god" being one of the original meanings of the word testament.

Seems fairly certain to me that the people that compiled the bible wanted the OT to be on the same level of truthfulness as the NT.

I really don'tcare if you deconvert anyone, but you were still looking at Christian beliefs through a Mormon lens.. Another point is that tone is often lost on the internet.

Agreed--it is more of an old testament view of god, but definitely not a mormon view of god. Mormons believe that he is a loving father whose greatest desire is to "bring to pass the eternal life and exaltation" of his children. They do not see him as a vindictive or cruel god. My views come solely from my own issues with how in mormonism I was taught to believe that he'd always be there to help me and work all things for my good. After 12 years of feeling abandoned, unguided, unaided, and having it implied that that was only because of MY lack of faith, I came to the conclusion that god is not who mormons claim he is. I, however, very much agree with and appreciate the views that other religions have of him.

Well, you may not be aware that many Christians consider much of the OT to be myth and allegory which pretty well eliminates most of your objections there.For those who take it literally, there are certainly some valid criticsms there, but the point is that mainline Protestants and Catholics are not Biblical literalists. Christians also believe Jesus IS God so the part about God having his son crucified is inaccurate except to Mormons. God sacrified himself in traditional Christian belief.It may not make any more sense but it is not the same belief. At least he did not require the suffering ogf anyone else. Jesus was not conceived through sexual intercourse and Mary remained a virgin. Also God is not the literal father of Mary or anyone else. The soul is created at conception and there is no pre existence.Human beings are God's children through adoption.I am not defending traditional Christian beliefs, just explaining them. They are not the same as Mormon. You are certainly free to criticize them but it is helpful if you know the difference between what Mormons believe and what traditional Christians believe. Just saying.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=30001

"Poll: 63% of Americans
think Bible literally true"

And the vast majority of those that believe it is myth still can not explain why they believe in a religion that considers stories that teach that it is OK that a father offer his daughters up for rape is still part of HOLY and canonized text of said religion.

And the leaders of religious denominations that continue to promote those stories as "Holy" are just as big of jerks.

There are 2 Biblical Gods:

1) The Hippy-dippy NT Jesus God who believes in love and forgiveness, and who wants you to help the poor.
2) The Vengeful OT God who craves your adoration and gets violently upset over petty issues. If you compare Him to his peers from Babylon, Egypt, Assyria, etc., you can see that he's just as mythical as Osiris and Ishtar.

used in a number of schools of my experience starts out with Adam and Eve being booted out of the garden, then goes on to Abraham being ordered to kill Isaac. The third story is a similar one - perhaps Noah? And this is supposedly to promote faith in a loving god?

This will probably have 4 letter words:

http://youtu.be/QZ8hefESt7c