...Do you think it's wrong? If you're a Christian and you don't, how do you reconcile what the Bible says?

(I ask because I just left the church and I'm questioning my sexuality).

Is it normal to feel this much guilt about it? And if it's not wrong, why do I feel so guilty? If the guilt would just go away I'd feel SO free.

By the way, I'm a woman.

Jesus didn't say a word about homosexuality. Leviticus is a bunch of rules. If you believe the prohibitions there,you had better never wear a red dress or pants. Stoning offences! God made you as you are. The two great commandments call for loving god and your neighbor as yourself. Jesus indicated that everything else hangs on these two. Don't let someone tell you what god thinks, 'cause if they say they know, they lie.

I agree 1000%!

Also add that highly intelligent people have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is simply another facet of human sexuality. The medical community does not consider homosexuality to be deviant or unhealthy - in other words there is no treatment for it because it is normal.

There are many Christians (gay & str8) who believe homosexuality is of no significance to a person's worth as a human being in the eyes of God.

Notsure Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Do you think it's wrong?
No. Gays and Lesbians have been part of humanity for eons.

If you're a Christian
> and you don't, how do you reconcile what the Bible
> says?
I'm not a Christian, and I believe the Bible is a book of myths and beliefs of primitive people trying to control other primitive people.



> (I ask because I just left the church and I'm
> questioning my sexuality).
How else are you going to know who you are?



> Is it normal to feel this much guilt about it?
It's normal to feel guilty if you've been made to feel guilty about something which is natural to you.



And
> if it's not wrong, why do I feel so guilty?
Because you've been indoctrinated that sex is something to feel guilty about, especially non heterosexual sex.



If the
> guilt would just go away I'd feel SO free.
Yes, you would feel free. In the meantime, what are you going to do about it?

>
> By the way, I'm a woman.
I am too. I am a heterosexual woman who doesn't think gay sexuality is all that different from heterosexuality. What's natural for you is what's natural.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2011 09:56PM by wine country girl.

Great answers and promotion of individual thinking! +1

It takes time to get past those thoughts. I would suggest seeing a therapist to help you get past those bad feelings.

It's not wrong!!!!

Years after I left the church and didn't even believe in God, I found myself making deals with him in my mind. "heavenly Father I promise I will never do [blank] again" or "Heavenly Father help me with this and I promise to never [blank] again." in my case the [blank] was usually masterbate or sexual acts with my boyfriend(now husband).

You have to learn to mentally retrain your brain. Everytime a thought like this comes up you need to tell yourself how stupid that thought is and why. Eventually they go away. You will find a new love and acceptance of yourself by doing so.

If you're going to go by the strict word of the Bible, there is no prohibition in the Bible regarding female/female sexual activity. This is what I was taught by some very learned rabbis who were teaching my conversion-to-Judaism class about Judaism. The prohibitions which have been "read into" the English language Bibles by CHRISTIANS, so far as they exist, were put there by the translators--they did not, and DO NOT, exist in the original languages, nor in the Jewish English-language Bibles.

So as a female, you absolutely NOTHING to be concerned about, regardless of how religious you may or may not be.

This...nothing about woman-woman, plus, there are some very valid arguments that the OT issues with male homosexuality actually apply to wartime rape.

The place where it gets tricky is when you have the NT authors speaking out against Hellenism...Greek culture was making inroads and they didn't like it.

You might be interested in this, it's called A Letter To Louise: http://www.godmademegay.com/Letter.htm

(As a university professor of mine explained...) a certain percentage of the population will always be homosexual. It's currently estimated at about 4%, with a larger proportion bisexual or somewhere on the spectrum. This is true across cultures and across time periods.

It is how God made us, if you will.

No one knows why we were made (and/or evolved) this way. It is possible that having a range of sexual response helps our survival.

Homosexuality between consenting adults harms no one. Families with homosexual partners harm no one. Therefore, IMO, no adverse moral judgment is necessary.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2011 10:19PM by summer.

The main sin of homosexuality according to the old testament redactors is that they did not contribute to the perpetuation of the israelite population(i.e., disobeying the commandment to be fruitful and multiply). These days, there are plenty of other people around to insure the continuation and survival of the human species. Whether you want to have your own biological children is your choice.

The skepticism you used to scrutinize the church should be used to examine Christian scriptures as well. There is no logical reason why the ideas of a long-dead, semi-literate iron-age desert dweller should influence your pursuit of fabulous sex!

My moniker was notsure years and years ago when I started posting here.

Those were rough times. I hope you get through them well.

First off, unless you stone children to death, think that it is OK to offer your daughters up for rape, think eating shrimp is an abomination, etc.. you don't follow the teaching in the OT were most of what is said about homosexuality occurs anyway, so it would be just one more thing in the bible you would ignore.

The only time homosexuality is clearly referenced in the NT is in Romans 1, which is interesting because the conclusion to what was said in Romans 1 is Romans 2 which states in specific regards to the list of sins in Roman 1 "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things."

But you can just cherry pick what you want the way most Christians seem to do any way.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2011 11:51PM by MJ.

That was excellent MJ

I'm Christian now and I still think the same things I always have when it comes to this issue. Jesus said love one another and do not judge. Period. It's seen many times in the NT that Jesus rebuked those that judged the sinners more than the sinners themselves. I don't think you have to give up on God because you're having these feelings. Explore these feelings, find out who you are and don't feel guilty. You've been indoctrinated to feel guilty for everything from Mormonism, but now you ARE free. It hurts now and it takes time but feelings of freedom will come. Go easy on yourself, you are a good person.

Let's be honest, how many people do you know who follow the entire Bible literally? In my experience, a lot of people give lip service to total obedience to the scriptures, but EVERYONE discounts at least some portion of the Bible. Seriously, some parts of the Bible are just that crazy. For example, even the most stringent literalists reject slavery, despite the fact that the god of the Bible approves of it.

The Bible also says that leprosy was an indicator God's displeasure. In fact, those with leprosy were deemed unworthy of worshipping God in the temple, and yet how many Christians in the 21st century would really condemn someone for contracting leprosy, or any other disease for that matter? The people of the Bible understood illness within the context of disobedience to God's law, but now we know that illness arises from natural causes like bacteria and viruses. Every Christian I know rejects the Biblical view that illness makes one unfit for worship, even if they don't admit it. So if we can freely reject the parts of the Bible that are later disproved by science, why do we hold so tenaciously to anticuated views regarding homosexuality? We now know that homosexuality is part of a person's nature, just as we now know that illness is the result of natural forces.

It's NOT wrong. I came out last year after 28 years of marriage. The love and intimacy I share with my wonderful woman is the most spiritual thing I've ever felt in my life!

I wrestled with much darkness, guilt, and despair as I prayed to my MOrmon God to make my attraction go away. I finally stepped outside my Mormon mindset to reevaluate. Saw a therapist...(felt guilty about going to a therapist too!). Many months later, with the help of therapy, friends, some meds, and my beautiful partner, I emerged from the dark place I was in. God, it's bright and sunny out here, and I love it!

I also love not living with all the Mormon constraints.

I know how hard it is to let go of the guilt. Big hugs to you, young woman! You are absolutely fine, straight or gay.

ah yes. yet ANOTHER reason why I hate the church. No, homosexuality is not "wrong." The church treats gays and lesbians like second-class citizens...as if their "same-sex attraction" is something they can just "turn off" or be cured of. You can be gay but you can't act on it? I find that horribly offensive. How dare you try to take away someone else's right to be intimate with someone they love? It is beyond ignorant to say that homosexuality is just a "trial" that can be overcome. It's not a goddamn disease! I swear. Mormons really are some of the most intolerant and homophobic sonsabitches out there.

I've said it before: you can't help who you fall in love with. If you want to look at scripture, most of what Jesus taught was about grace and forgiveness, unlike what the morg teach. I'd just forget about morg teachings if it were me.

I am a man and in becoming more sensitive through advanced spiritual practices certain sensitivities have opened up in me.
Sometimes I have seen men in the light a woman would.
I have seen them as attractive.
Now...no way am I a homosexual...yet it has been there.
What is it and where does it come from?

Now I will tell you a great truth that all should know, regardless of what the stupid religionists say we reincarnate, if you could see your past beyond this life you would see the spirit world exists, that is where deceased people go after death but importantly after some time spent there most people come back here and continue on in anew body.

Now pay attention...we come back in different sex than what we were, I for example was a woman in my last earthly incarnation and certain aspects of that personality are filtering through.
It is a weakness one has to control for in no way do I want to be a homosexual.
My bum is a bum and no way do I want to use it as a sex organ, it should be used for shitting out of, if I had a vagina OK that would be a different story but I haven't.

If you could look deeply into yourself you would probably find that this is your problem if you are attracted to women...you could have been a man last time you were incarnated on earth thus it still filters through in this life.
Most people don't know it but Jesus taught about reincarnation but the orthodox religious founders removed it from the scripts.

Answer to your problem...you have to use will, to use discipline.
As in my case I could allow myself that weakness and succumb to homosexuality but being a spiritual student one has the voice of the master ringing in ones ears that says...

"Without discipline you are nothing but an ape".

And an ape I certainly don't want to be, thus in every matter of weakness I would encurage you to use disipline, whatever and however we all need it, it is the path to selfmastery.

zoltan,

First time I've ever seen someone cite reincarnation to argue against homosexual behavior.

Too early in the day to tell if that's a new low or not.

Probably is.

Would you mind telling us what the name of your super advanced spiritual training is? I would like to do further investigation.

And I can't say I'd call any of your ideas sensitive.

Zoltan,
Life is not about self mastery. If that's how you want to spend your life, fine. When you are 84, You, too, can wear the sour sad face of a bitter old apostle. I've discovered life is about LOVE. Life should be full of joy.

The Bible advocates killing disobedient children, stoning people who don't follow strict rules related to the Sabbath and other silly rules most people who claim to believe in the Bible never obey.

If people want to live by the Bible, live it entirely, otherwise it's obvious they only cherry pick those aspects of the Bible they choose to use to attack people they already hate. Then they're hypocrites and have zero credibility.

They should worry about their own lives and stop trying to make other people's lives miserable with their cherry-picker attitude towards a book written by superstitious and ignorant tribesmen 1800 years ago and 200 years after the events they are writing about.

Eating prawns is an abomination according to the Bible. Do you feel guilty when you eat shellfish? Would you yell to a schizophrenic that the demon inside them must leave in the name of Jesus Christ? No. People know better than to follow nonsense from the Bible. They follow some nonsense because they are ignorant or choose to use the Bible as a tool to attack others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2011 04:45AM by ozpoof.

Take a deep breath and relax. Why not let the matter of your sexuality unfold naturally, without judgment? Toward that goal, I suggest reading Joseph Campbell, "The Power of Myth" or any book about the common mythologies all religions share.

Once you learn that religions commonly have a virgin birth, a savior, a hero who ventures into spiritually unexplored land and faces danger to bring back truth, a flood which wipes out the wicked, etc., it will bring you some perspective.

You belong to the Human Race, a group of people churning with ideas about everything, a group which shares some common myths which are extremely powerful. These myths have been used by religion to control/promote reproduction for the survival of the species.

As one poster pointed out, the species will survive with or without your reproductive input, so if you are a left brained person, that will be a relief.

If you are a right-brained person, you will understand that human history shows that gay people make a unique and valuable contribution to the human race. Think of the Greeks and the designers of your shoes, your clothes, your hairstyle.

No need to feel guilty about how God made you. You love who you love or else you stifle and pretend to be someone you are not. What kind of life would that be? You may need to just relax and let your sexuality unfold without being too analytical about it.

Congratulations on leaving the church. Marvelous step forward to claim your OWN LIFE! Cheers!

Best,

Anagrammy

There is a large and growing body of neurological research demonstrating that sexual orientation begins before birth but does not become fully fixed and evident until puberty. In other words, homosexuals are born that way but usually do not realize it until they reach the age of puberty. (It's the same for heterosexuals.) My point is that whether one is hetero- or homosexual it is determined before birth - it is normal, natural and is purely biological. It has nothing to do with sin or morality.

Let me put it another way. Just as a small percentage of humans are born homosexual, so too, a small percentage are born left-handed (me), or with green eyes, or having red hair. It's all biology!

In addition, being gay has nothing to do with any sort of theology about pre-existence, pre-destination, past lives or reincarnation. It's just physics, chemistry, biology and evolution. If people would spend more time reading science and less time reading Bibles they'd learn something!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2011 07:21AM by nebularry.

The only time lesbianism is _hinted_ at is in one passage in the NT.... and that could equally be hinting at a prohibition against female anal sex as a method of birth control, as was common amongst the Greek Hetaera [courtesans].

some christians say "I think *this* passage means *that*" and "this verse *suggests*.....

My view is that, if some god wanted to make a clear prohibition against something, he shouldn't drop hints or use language that can be taken one way or another.

Homosexuality is natural and it does not matter to me what 2 (or more) consenting adults get up to in their own bedrooms

Being gay is the new left handedness. Just because you are different doesn't make you wrong. Straight people claim all sorts of nonsense about gays, thinking it is wrong because they can't imagine life not being straight. You were brought up in a world that doesn't understand you.

Nowhere in the 5 Gospels or the Book of Mormon does it condemn homosexuality. The only places in the Bible that condemn it are in the OT and in Paul. Paul also hates women, and we don't practice much of what is in the OT (animal sacrifice, stoning unruly children, etc.).

I'm a gay man myself and the only way for you to live an honest life is to be true to yourself. You cannot live your life for anyone else, and if you are really gay, pretending you are not will lead to much unhappiness. Some of my friends have tried and 3 of them killed themselves as a result.

Being GLBTQ is not a weakness to be controlled.

Greed and bigotry are weaknesses to be controlled.

Being GLBTQ is just being.

I don't think it's wrong to be who you are. I am not a Christian. Most GLBTQ people I've known in my life went through a period of guilt and soul-searching before deciding that who they are is okay and it's okay to love who you love.

Homosexuality is found in over 450 species. Homophobia is found in only one. Which one seems unnatural now?

+1

Be who you are!

The old testament has been 95% decanonized. Except for Genesis and maybe Psalms and Proverbs, it's completely irrevant to modern Christianity or anything Jesus taught.

The old testament is mostly a record of diety-mandated genocide.

I'd highly recommend you find a different book of teachings to guide your spiritual path.
RG

I'm a Christian, and I do not think homosexuality is a sin. How can it be a sin if that's the way God made you?

As I see it, there are a couple separate issues you are dealing with. One is regarding homosexuality and another is the way you feel.

From my reading and research, I have yet to find where science has come up with a definitive cause for human homosexuality. However, the research that has been done all indicates that the cause is physiological and psychological. This body of research includes studies regarding gay fraternal and identical twins, birth order, maternal genetics, pheromones studies, and animal studies to mention a few. Even some research examining animal behavior generally and various factors during gestation indicate that sexuality is physiological. These were not specifically research on homosexuality but indicate that varieties of sexual behaviors can be influenced by physiology. The reason these studies are significant is because a number of Christians will claim that science has never proven that being gay is an innate characteristic of an individual, but they leave out (conveniently) that scientific research all indicates that it is.

Guilt and shame are valid emotions. It is the natural feeling we have when we make a mistake or when we harm another. Guilt is largely (perhaps completely) a learned response to what we are taught is incorrect behavior. Since we live in a traditionally homophobic culture, it would seem to be normal for us to have learned that being gay is somehow bad and shameful. Upon discovering that we have such feeling and that we may in fact be gay individuals, it would be natural enough for us to feel some guilt having learned and assimilated that being this way is somehow wrong.

As evidence of this phenomenon, consider the way children who were left handed were treated 50 years ago. Left handed kids were told in school that they were wrong to write with their left hand and instructed to use their right hand to write with. Many of these kids would feel guilt whenever they would write with their left hand even though doing so felt natural to them and they could often manipulate their pencils and pens easier with their left hand. Today, we allow kids to write with which ever hand feels most natural to them and no one thinks twice about it. Left handed kids no longer have any reason to feel guilty because no one bothers to tell them they are somehow wrong or evil for writing with their left hand. I believe the same thing will be true when being gay becomes generally accepted within our culture. People who are gay can claim their innate sexuality without having been taught that being gay is wrong or evil. I think we see this phenomenon somewhat in the earlier ages that individuals are coming out and coming to terms with their homosexuality.

I have read that the ancient Greeks expressed their thought that sex between men was superior to sex between a man and a woman because men were superior to women. Not that I agree, but this is what Greek boys were taught in their culture. As a consequence, I would imagine that males who grew up finding women more desirable than men may have felt very much the way you are describing your feelings today. Their innate feelings did not match with what they were taught they should feel and so they may have felt they were somehow odd or abnormal. I would suspect that they could just as easily felt guilt and shame for deviating from the cultural norm they were taught.

As for the Christian view of gay individuals, I would refer you to MJ's comments posted earlier. His are the best arguments on this subject I am aware of. I might add that you may want to refer to the sites of some gay Christians such as the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) to see what arguments they present on this subject. Although I'd agree with MJ that these Christians are using the tactics he describes, they might be able to provide you with an alternate view on the issues.

So, there you have my contribution on the questions you asked. I think you have nothing to feel guilty about. I know my references to being gay all refer to male homosexuality but I am not as aware of female homosexuality. Some of this is because their does appear to be less research on gay females and also because I have more interest in male homosexuality.

I wish you the best in your search. Please don't be afraid to do your research or to ask questions of people who will answer honestly without shaming you for your questioning.