I told my one of my closest mormon friend's of my desire to leave the church several months ago. She didn't cut me off and we remained social. I've known her 10 years and we were very close. I've noticed that she hasn't been returning my FB comments or messages since July. Our family invited her family to my daughter's baptism and they did not come. We were not invited to her son's 2 months later. My husband is good friends with her husband. I told her about my beliefs early on because i thought she would accept me. Early on in our friendship, she worked at a coffee shop (that's practically a drug dealer for a mormon), she got several tatoos, and did not faithfully wear her garments. She was still my friend and my husband and I were guests at her sealing to her husband and daughter.

I finally asked her in a FB message, point blank what was going on. Here is the following conversation. I changed the names for privacy.

My message to her:
I was just wondering if I've upset you or did something wrong? I've noticed you have been ignoring my communication on facebook. It also made our family sad that you didn't come and support Audrey(my daughter) for her baptism or that you didn't tell us about Billy's(her son) baptism. Even though my personal beliefs may have changed, it doesn't mean that I won't be supportive of my friends and genuinely respect their beliefs. My husband was disappointed that you guys didn't invite us. If I've done something wrong, I'm sorry. Whatever it was, it was not intentional. I'm sorry if this was just a big misunderstanding, but I hope you can see my point of view. Please know that I truly value our friendship. Mark(My 4 year old) is having a birthday party in a few weeks and we would love it if your 2 boys can come. Mark talks about them all the time!

Her reply:
Exmollymo, Jerk(her husband) and I have made the decision to break off contact with you, which he has asked me to do from the beginning in 2004. For a couple reasons. First, I think your decision to leave the church is ruining your family. At first I thought you just needed to get back on track and you would come to your senses. It is very selfish and self serving of you to leave the church simply because you are too proud. Of course, I can't say for sure why but I don't believe you are honest about why you are leaving the church, but it seems to me and Jerk that it is just easier for someone who has made grave immoral mistakes to "lose their faith" rather than face repentance. Second, I have had enough of the boasting and judging and manipulation. You were a good friend when we had our first babies, but since then, things have changed. It seems you try so hard to look like you are a good person, and not enough effort into actually being a good person. Love and charity is not going to a soup kitchen twice a month and then wearing that like a badge of charity. You are only interested on looking good. It is self-serving. I knew I wanted nothing to do with you anymore when you came over last and when i was in the shower getting ready, you went to my husband and proceeded to try to talk him into not buying me a home. It was obvious to me that you were pissed that I was going to get a bigger better house than you and you just couldn't stand it. You are NOT better than everyone else. I can honestly say that if I had just met you for the first time, I would not be interested in being friends. You are mean to your husband, who is one of the most tenderhearted loving people I have ever met. Your poor husband didn't ask for any of this. He deploys during a war and he comes home to find his wife is having morality issues and is leaving the church he knows to be true and good. You have been through the temple and you know what blessings you are throwing away for you and your family because of your pride. That is too painful for me to stand by and watch you destroy your relationship with your husband. He deserves better. Your kids deserve better.



My final reply to her before I unfriended and blocker her and her husband:

Thank you for your honest feelings. I do not appreciate your false judgement on my supposed "immorality". That is completely false (as well as many other things), but that is the only thing I feel I need to address. please know that I love you and I'm sorry it ended this way. Good-bye.





Needless to say, this was a shocker! I knew I would loose people, but it hurts so much when it actually happened. The thing that hurts me the most is that she basically thinks that I had an affair while my husband was away and I'm too prideful and lazy to correct the situation. I'm not at all like what she described. With regards to the house she is buying, here's the whole story. Her husband is getting out of the military to go back to school. They have 4 kids, are buying a $165,000 house (mine was $137,000), going to live off of student loans, gi bill, food stamps, and free state health care. She had a boob job (which looks great), but she charged it to her credit card! They have a lot of debt as a family. My family's only debt is our mortgage and we have a savings reserve. Her husband ASKED ME about our bills and owning a home. I was very honest and told him that it is tight on our budget and I honestly don't know how they will be able to afford it if they bought a house that expensive. My husband and I have counseled friends and family on several occasions regarding finances (when they ask) and are good with saving our money and living within our means. A real friend gives an honest answer. That's all I was doing! As for the other accusations, she doesn't have the whole picture and everything she said about me is false. I even asked my nonmember sister and friends if I come off as boastful when I tell about what I do in the community (which, by the way, I keep a lot of it private. I don't share nearly as much as I actually do). I know us mormons can not be very self aware at times, so I made sure I asked people who would give me an honest answer. They said I'm not at all like what she said. They are wondering what planet she has lived on all these years.

Anyway - I just had to vent. I was up all night in tears, this is just heart breaking that I am treated this way - just because I believe something different.

Wow...

It kills me when people are so prone to assume you've sinned. How can they honestly claim to follow a man who said, "let he who hath no sin, cast the first stone"?

Also, I can't think of ONE mormon I know who helps in a soup kitchen. That would help people outside "the fold"...so it just isn't done. How the heck is that not an act of charity?!?! What does she have to show, besides the regular church grind she's obligated to do to remain socially acceptable?

it is hard to lose friends.... well real friends you dont ever really lose..... but she seems to be doing a lot of judgmental stuff herself! anyway.... good luck with your family! thats what really matters!

"it is hard to lose friends.... well real friends you dont ever really lose"

Exactly, big.

Yeah, it hurts when people don't understand you and seek to avoid you because they don't understand you. But real friends make the effort to understand.

You didn't lose a real friend, you lost a fake friend, an acquaintance.

You'll get over it and look back and wonder why you even cared in the first place!

Although 'Holier Than Thou' is written with Invisible Ink, it's still an Article of Faith in Morland!

With 'friends' like that....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2011 01:06PM by guynoirprivateeye.

Ouch. Sorry to hear that soemone you used to call a friend would respond like that.
I've noticed the following LDS code:

Pride=failure to be completely obedient

That really isn't hate mail.

You asked her what was going on. She replied in what likely is an honest fashion.

Yes, her thoughts are offensive, but I think honest. You said later that you give honest replies when people seek your thoughts and seem to acknowledge that can offend some people.

It seems that your former friend was willing to let sleeping dogs lie and get on with her life until you asked. You didn't like the answer you go, so replied, then closed communication.

Basically, that is doing all that you can to ensure you get the last word.

At least you know where you stand with this person, even if it did hurt your feelings.

I'd like to know what IS! It is libel, pure and simple, and exmollymo was simply trying to be a friend and find out what was going on.

So why are you making exmollymo out to be the bad guy?

1. That isn't even close to the legal definition of libel.

2. I am not making anyone out to be anything. I gave my take on it. If you think my facts or conclusions are wrong, point out what is wrong with them.

3. I don't find it to be hate mail by any common definition of the term. Hate mail is defined as hateful written communications that is not solicited and is anonymous. That was not anonymous to the O.P. and it was solicited.

Correspondence that expresses the sender's animosity, disapproval, or prejudice, often in offensive language.
and another:
hate mail
Noun:
Hostile and sometimes threatening letters.
More info »Wikipedia - Dictionary.com - Answers.com - The Free Dictionary
►nothing about anonymous or unsolicited....
just sayin!

Sorry for your friends unwarrented judgement. Seen this quite a bit over the years. You can be friends as long as you do and act the way they want you to act. (been throught that myself) In the long run you are better off. Don't let her negitive attitude affect what you want or believe. Lead on!

She sounds like a real piece of work. She sounds like someone whom if I met today I would turn around and run away as fast as I could. Tell her you indeed had an affair...with her husband. One good lie deserves another.

She did forget one thing in her list of the "real" reasons why I lost my testimony. She named SIN-"grave immoral mistakes" as well as PRIDE-"you are too proud".

She forgot to mention that I was OFFENDED. (which I wasn't)



About the whole soup kitchen thing. My whole family (young children included) go to the local City Rescue Mission twice a month and we have gone regularly since March. I didn't even say anything to my friends until May because I didn't want to show off what I was doing. I speak of it regularly now to gather donations, share wonderful stories, or just tell about the relationships I am forming there. One of my 4 year old's best friend's at the rescue mission is a 40-something ex-convict/druggie. He's clean and sober now trying to get his life back in order. I wouldn't let my kids be alone with anyone from the Mission, but we benefit just as much from our time there as the people we serve. We also had to pay for a background check and attend an orientation training meeting. We don't do it because it's convenient or to look good. We do it because it's the right thing to do for OUR family.

An added bonus is that we do it on a Sunday afternoon, so it takes my mind off of all the "rules" of the Sabbath that my husband imposes on the children. It gives us some breathing room. To be fair to my husband, I was the one who implemented all the rules when I was TBM. I feel so bad for my children, but they know that it'll get better.

If she was she would have tried to talk to you about the "mistakes" she thought you were making. That fact that she was ignoring you just sounds more like a child pitching a fit.

Personally, it sounds like (yes I an judging here) she is judging your motives and actions and breaking things off cause she mad about the house deal and needs excuses. Just a guess.

Anyway, life is too short to waste a lot of time on those who aren't willing to at least engage and deal with you. Sounds like it's time to move on and focus on real relationships.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2011 01:21PM by badseed.

She sounds like a really horrible person. I know that sounds like a feel good kinda comment, but REALLY you are so much better off with out her.

There is nothing wrong with asking her what is going on and challenging her on her behavior. (As vicksbestdog suggests) Hate is hate. That woman hates you. She is honest about it but she hates you.

We should challenge these mormons (or get the last word if you want to call it that) more often.

I am sorry this happened.

In the ward I left from, rumors were that I was a cheater. A member of the bishopric approached me a few months later and asked what was up. I told him issues. He dispelled the rumors and ensured people that I left for intellectual/doctrinal issues. Two years later, that guy and his whole family are out. A year after that, the seminary/institute teacher and family are out.

Exmomolly, I would respond to that b*t*h:

Jerk's wife, I think your decision to judge me is ruining your family. At first I thought you were a sane and normal human, but now I realize you're just an intolerant come-to-jesus freak. It is very selfish and self serving of you to not try to understand my real concerns, my believes, my information, just because you are too fearful or too proud. Of course, I can't say for sure why but I don't believe you are honest in truly studying all the facts and information about the mormon church. It just seems to me and my wonderful husband that it is easier for a member to judge others who leave as immoral than to touch upon unfavorable information about the church and its leaders. Also, I realize you think I am judging you because I now view false what you believe is true, but I wanted to remain your friend no matter our differences. It was you that took the step to push your judgment into action of severing ties with me. Action speaks louder than implied words when speaking of judgment and intolerance.

blah blah blah

Not to be an alarmist, but I'd suspect your hubby has been talking to Jerk and Jerk filled in his own details which he supplied to Mrs. Jerk.

That's just my read.

Ron

Cleaning toilets for free for a multi billion dollar organization IS CHARITY!

You are a terrible person.

Giving poor people food.

Disgusting.

You give poor people crack and you give rich people MORE money!

Don't you know anything?

People can really be absurd and ridiculous can't they!
I know this must be hard for you!
My only comment is to remember their comments and actions are not about you...they are about them. I think you handled it well: short, and to the point.

I really like this statement - and this little book. It's so true, and really hits the mark when people cut off friendships and make false allegations.


The Second Agreement
Don't Take Anything Personally
Become immune to poison
The whole world can gossip about you,and if you don't take it personally, you are immune. Immunity to poison in the middle of hell is the gift of the Second Agreement
From: The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz


Really, this is not about you. It's unfortunate that people behave this way, but it's their own personal hell, not yours!

Keep your head up ! You're fine!

This is what I heard.

“I’m better than you because I now don’t get the house I wanted thanks to you giving my husband sound financial advice.”

All else are tools she uses to feel good about you being the enemy in her selfish quest. Every breath you take is unrighteous to her. Even if you were more TBM there still would be excuses made by her in this issue.

Just have a little funeral for her in your mind.
Then move on.

Wait! I re-read that. "..she had a boob job and they look great.."???? Describe them to the very last detail!

Other than the "bolt on's", the whole episode was useless.

Just sayin'...

Ron

Red flag here. This is the man that asked you about buying a house?

2004? Really?

He has not wanted contact from you for 7 years and was just bidding his time until his wife decided to cut the contact.

Sounds like great friends. Who needs enemies?

The sting of unwaranted judgement hurts, but at least you don't have to wonder whats going on with your ex-friend any longer. I have always been perplexed that the most judgemental of TBMs seem to have no clue that thier judgements of others offer mor of a glimpse into thier own insecuraties regarding faith and and morality than the do into those whom they judge. I would feel sorry for her if she didn't come across as such a condescending bitch in her response.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2011 01:50PM by luckychucky.

Wow,

If those are not the words of a cult member I just do not know.

It seems it says in the scriptures to love thy neighbor like thyself, not hate everyone that does not go to your "church".

I also belief it says something about bearing false witness.

Mymymy, she (and Jerk) will have alot to account to God to.

I would take it as a compliment that evil people do not want anything to do with me. I would just pray for their souls.

hang in there.

Projection, projection, projection.

Everything she said about you is what she thinks about herself.

You haven't been part of that relationship, ever. She's only in relationships with herself; she projects all her shit on to other people and when other people stop fitting her ideas about who they are (they should be just like her), then she cuts them out of her life.

Does this woman have any friends she's known her whole life? I'm always suspicious about people who have no friendly connections to their past. It suggests something about their emotional stability and how controlling or manipulative they are.

I thought your reply was perfect, btw. No need to get into more except to defend your moral honor with "ur a liar. kthxbai". That was a bit of a "get in the last word" tactic, but the horse is out of the barn now. I might have replied with a simple, "Okay, thanks for the feedback." and then defriended and blocked. But whatever.

When someone tells you who they are, pay attention. She just did.

We see things not as they are but as we are.

She sounds like she's projecting like crazy. Judging others is a sin and so is bearing false witness against your neighbor. Since she has no problem sinning, she assumes you are sinning too. Because she wants to show off her fancy house and would have her nose out of joint is someone has a nicer one, she ascribes this pride and jealous attitude to you. Because she is obviously focused on her looks (from what you said about her boob job and debts) she assumes you wouldn't do anything from pure motives but only do it to look good. Because that is how she would react.

Whenever someone reacts this way I always want to say "But you don't believe in the church - why does it matter to you if I do?" Because nothing in her behavior that you've described is an example of being a good Christian. It sounds more like a pissy 13-year-old. Since following the Savior is obviously not her priority, why does she care if you don't want to follow LDS Inc.? I wouldn't even know how to respond to her e-mail because it would just make me sick, if it were a relative of mine, to know how much Mormonism had turned her crazy. I'd just feel a sick sense of deep pity. Good luck with this one.

I'm so tempted to ask you to forward me this "person's" real name via e-mail so I can go and rip her a few new ones on the dreaded book of the face. However, I am a gentleman.

Were I not, I'd call her a liar, a manipulator, a BAD MORMON (reminding her that she is in violation of her own 13th Article of Faith since she is totally unable of telling the truth and reminding her that she is in violation of the 11th Article of Faith by bad-mouthing your faith choices, but then again, what Mormon respects any non-Mormon or ex-Mormon choice of belief system?), well, the list does go on.

It's tempting to give you her name, but I'll have to pass. I have to follow my own Christian beliefs and not sink to her level of hatred. It's still very tempting though. Thanks for the offer.

I would have been fine if she didn't want to be my friend, it was all the lies she said that bothered me so much!

sounds to me like she is jealous of:
your house
your husband
your kids
your courage
your giving nature
and maybe even your boobs!

projection is huge. i see it all over her reply.

Take the high road. She made insensative and hurtful comments. You have left the church. Don't give her any ammunition by making hurtful comments back. Let her live with her words. Live your life and be happy.

Peace.

I read your post when it first went up but (alas) hadn't a moment to type something. I'm heartened that many on the board did have a moment and have given you some support.

I wish you and your family well. As one that was accused of adultery for years after I left LDSinc, by my TBM family, I know not only how much that hurts but also how destructive it can be to a marriage, I really hope the best for you. Be comforted that you aren't the only one who has to suffer this calumny. I know IRL two rather prominent ex-mos who went through the same thing. It's not easy.

Cheers and good luck.

Human

she wasn't your friend after all. and you didn't lose your husband because of your resignation from the church.

it's lame but you've chosen to take the high road.

congratulations for that. nobody said the truth was going to be easy --but i agree that some changes are truly unexpected like losing friends.

I think your friend is jealous that you had the guts to do what you did. I know of a family that left the church because they thought being a mormon took too much time and effort. I secretly admire them to some extent - church should be a place of joy not a place you feel compelled. They talk about free agency, but being a member is like being tethered to everyone else and they know as soon as you make your move. It is like cow bells going off. I swear the local church seems like a huge homeowners association. Focus on your family and your life.

Just wow. I have friends who happen to have a wide variety of beliefs. We don't rip each other up for those beliefs or for changing our minds about those beliefs.
It'd be so hard to have to deal with what you've had to.
I'm so sorry it came to that.
I agree with other posters, I don't think she's really being honset with herself, otherwise she wouldn't be so hateful.

I agree with the posters here who said that she is upset that she can't have the house she wants (or that she had to beg and plead more to get it) because YOU gave her husband sound financial advice. And he probably saw the wisdom in it and used it. Notice SHE didn't ask you for financial advice. She didn't want it either.

I also think that as she thinketh, so she projecteth onto you. That's sometimes a hard lesson to understand (i know it was for me for years) that the rant was more about her and not you. Since she insulted you, it seems personal. But she was showing you who she really was and what she really thinks herself. She is the one with the 'looks' problem- her self, her house, but she projected it onto you by saying you are prideful because you serve outsside the church. It seems that she does a lot of things to get noticed by others - tatoos, boob job etc. that are just borderline church acceptable.

FYI My bil who had just been called into the stake presidency was later uncalled and they wanted him to state that he wasn't worthy of the calling. When he wouldn't, the stake ignored him for the year they still remained in the church. My own mother, who has known him for around 20 years even thot he committed adultery on my sister! So you are in good company. I was only thot of as having been offended. I guess my mom didn't think i was good looking enuf or confident enuf to be able to commit adultery. Here is his story, if you want to read it: http://normanthompsonexmormon.blogspot.com/

I think it is too bad they take this out on the kids who still want to play with each other.

Good luck in passing thru this 'trial'. Here's to better years in the future with real friends.