After talking to quite a few nonmos about this topic, I've noticed that most Jews, many Protestants, and some Catholics object to mormons dead dunking them and their departed loved ones.

Why do many nonmos not care? Usually, because they feel there isn't much that can be done about it and they take little interest in what mormons do.

Why do Jews and some others strenuously object? Because they consider it disrespectful of their beliefs and of their loved ones who did not want this done. Many people in our society believe in honoring the wishes of the dead. Even many mormons honor the wishes of their own dead and think others should follow this example.

Is there anything that can be done about dead dunking?

Yes, I think the practice will eventually be curtailed to some extent because of public outrage and revulsion. It might not happen in my lifetime. However, as a kid, I never thought they'd go to two piece garments or eliminate washing, anointing, the five points of physical intrusion on women at the veil, or death oaths.

Since I've started reading on RfM, I've seen developments in the church on dead dunking. More mormons are starting to be embarrassed by the procedure. Outsiders are demanding that it not happen to them or their loved ones. There are websites which record those who want to go on the record demanding this won't be done with their name Some people preclude this practice in their wills. More and more people are realizing that this is an intrusion on the wishes of dead and living alike and that they can't just discount the widespread distaste.

Mormons like to say it doesn't hurt anyone unless they believe in the mormon temple rituals. I don't agree because in my experience mormons and only mormons believe in those rites. I've never met a nevermo or a recovered exmo who think saying words in a temple actually impacts a spirit world where nonmormons dwell. I'd bet that non-mormons who believe in the spells done in morg temples is pretty close to nil.

and the prof spoke candidly on mormonisim during one segment of the course. He presented Mormons as elitists who believe that only those who have been baptized into the mormon church could go to heaven.. then he mentioned about baptisims by proxy and said that mormons baptize everyone so that everyone has a chance to go to heaven if he was good. he then looked at the class and said "Every one of you will be baptized as mormons after you die" The only comments about it were that it sounded better than the catholics where if you don't get baptized you spend eternity in purgatory. They thought it was a bit odd but not ONE person put up a fuss over the practice.

Or just let the topic pass from that to the next one?

At the time I was fairly TBM... but I've never been a "LOOK AT ME I'M A MORMON!" type. I just let the topic pass to the next one.

I'm a nevermo and I object to this practice. Is there any way for me to determine if this has been done to members of my deceased family?

Someone usually gives the particulars for those who ask, but I think going to the site might require a membership number.

I'm totally opposed to this practice, but I have to be honest here, I think I would have less of a problem with the ritual itself if the deceased weren't listed in the Geneological Index as having been baptised Mormon. It soils their memory, it soils their name, and future generations will think the person was Mormon in life. It's arrogance and dishonesty on the part of the Mormon Church. If it's a posthumous baptism, they should not be listed as Mormon, period. I think the ritual would still bother me, but if the deceased aren't listed as having been baptised Mormon, maybe it would just become another one of those silly temple things Mormons do?

I'm a Jew. What (I think) most Jews despise the most about this practice is that the Jewish name are retrieved off the lists of those who died in the Holocaust. they DIED for being Jewish, and the Mormon church is going to "make them Mormon", at least in their records? No flipping chance! I have relatives who died in the Holocaust, who were beaten and starved and tattood and forced to watch their children raped and murdered before being herded into gas chambers or lined up, stripped and shot themselves. The thought of them being listed as MORMONS is repugnant. They've already suffered degredation NO HUMAN BEING should ever have to suffer BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWISH. Leave them the one dignity they died for. Being Jewish.

I very much agree and add that NO one should have to undergo the indignity on involuntarily being forced to stregthen and build a cult they opposed.

It's reprehensible ofr a cult to inducts members against their will, sully their names, misrepresent their lives and reputaions.

Yes, the practice is totally disrespectful. It is an arrogant practice that the Mormons do. They feel they are above all others. When in reality all the rest of us religious folks allow people to "choose" their religion when they are ALIVE!!!! Hello!!!!

A big problem I see with some people not caring is that the large majority of people know nothing of this pracice. They know nothing of Temples. They may hear of it but know of no one who would do this to them (little do they know). They are in states with large Catholic and Protestant denominations and rarely hear the word Mormon let alone know all the kooky things they do. Ask an educated nevermo who has a religious belief about this, and you will get responses like "How dare they?" "How disrespectful and abusive". "This can't be true".

They assume that temples are the equivalent to mormon stake houses where members worship, sing, and preach. Little do they know that temples are used for rites which discredit non-mormon belief systems and ritually dishonor the dead.

Every Exmo on this board has experienced the invasiveness of the Mormon church to some degree or another. It is a reason, and in some cases the major reason, why we left. And none of us here want our non-Mormon relatives baptized as members of the LDS Church, either!

Even Catholic popes have been baptized posthumously as Mormons! Catholic priests, who take oaths of lifelong celibacy, have been “sealed” (married) posthumously to Mormon women for eternity. When I was a TBM, I was not aware of this and was shocked to learn about it after I left.

Along with arrogant know-it-alls in the church are some sincere and well-meaning people. They might think, “Oh, Holly, if you just understood what a great favor we are doing your ancestors by giving them a chance to accept the true gospel, you would be grateful for what we are doing!” They really believe this.

Remember, the Mormon church is a CULT, and its brainwashed members behave accordingly.

WiserWomanNow Wrote:
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> Every Exmo on this board has experienced the
> invasiveness of the Mormon church to some degree
> or another. It is a reason, and in some cases the
> major reason, why we left. And none of us here
> want our non-Mormon relatives baptized as members
> of the LDS Church, either!
>
> Even Catholic popes have been baptized
> posthumously as Mormons! Catholic priests, who
> take oaths of lifelong celibacy, have been
> “sealed” (married) posthumously to Mormon
> women for eternity. When I was a TBM, I was not
> aware of this and was shocked to learn about it
> after I left.
>
> Along with arrogant know-it-alls in the church are
> some sincere and well-meaning people. They might
> think, “Oh, Holly, if you just understood what a
> great favor we are doing your ancestors by giving
> them a chance to accept the true gospel, you would
> be grateful for what we are doing!” They really
> believe this.
>
> Remember, the Mormon church is a CULT, and its
> brainwashed members behave accordingly.


that's disgusting that Catholic priests have been dead dunked and "sealed" with women.

I understand they truly mean no harm (really) but when again and again this practice has been protested, for them NOT TO CARE that it HURTS people, is truly bothersom.

I was a TBM at the time, but there was an article in oneof the Morg newspapers about Jimmy Stewart requesting that his deceased son be dead dunked, I think back in the late 1980's. Even at that time, I felt that the Morg was taking advantage of his elderly mind.

Cheryl Wrote:
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> After talking to quite a few nonmos about this
> topic, I've noticed that most Jews, many
> Many people in our society believe in
> honoring the wishes of the dead. Even many mormons
> honor the wishes of their own dead and think
> others should follow this example.
>
> Is there anything that can be done about dead
> dunking?
>

In our family one of my DW's aunts, an Episcopalian, died in Massachusetts and requested that her ashes be buried next to her dead son (another Episcopalian) at Bear Lake, Idaho. We're Catholics so I didn't know if the Episcopalian Book of Common Prayer had the same ritual for burials that we do; I went online to find their words, very similar to the Catholic ritual, printed it up and brought it to the ceremony. It so happens that her former DIL, a very EXMO, had a brother who was a Mormon bishop and out of courtesy because of his religious office, was asked to read the rite. He shook his head and said "Oh, I can't read this" and offered to "read something similar" - and then proceeded to give some JS BS, etc. Her non-Mormon relatives (most of us) were somewhat pissed but what to do without causing a row? Couldn't the self-righteous MO SOB even read something like an actor does?Also, an ancestor of my wife's had come to Massachusetts in the 1630s and they listed him as a Mo (my SIL found this while researching their family geneaology); my wife and SIL wrote to SLC and requested, twice, that the Mo entry be erased with no result; I don't think anyone can do anything about it. Well, like most of the world, we don't care what the Mormon church does but it is insulting and it does sully a person's reputation. Damned LDS.

Hitler, Jesus, Mary.. ect. I'm not sure how anyone takes them seriously at this point.

vhainya Wrote:
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> Hitler, Jesus, Mary.. ect. I'm not sure how
> anyone takes them seriously at this point.

Nice (sarcasm alert). So, should this dead dunking actually WORK (cough gag spit), my relatives who died by Hitler's hand should spend all eternity in heaven with that evil psychopath, Hitler? At least that's the Mormon intention...

And yes, I'm aware that even in my own religious beliefs (Judaism), there's a possibility that could happen. Jews don't really believe in Hell...

but really....How "kind" of the Mormons to make it their intention, rather than just let God sort it all out...

I suppose they've dead dunked Stalin too.

Don't know if it's true but I find it believable from a group of people who practice selective reality. :)

Holly Wrote:
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> I suppose they've dead dunked Stalin too.
Probably. They sealed the Virgin Mary to Good the Father and sealed Jesus to them

In his book God Is Not Great, Christopher Hitchens singles out baptism for the dead as one particular doctrine that he thinks actually makes some sense.

No. But then, anyone I ever explained it to was so shocked to hear of its being done in the first place, I don't think they thought any further than that.

They've all said "that's not right", or "that can't be valid," "are you SURE about this?" or something similar.

One did say much later that they believed you had to be consciously aware of its meaning, or that you had to ask for/accept the rite of baptism for it to be valid. I told them, yes in many religions that is the case---but babies are often baptized and in my opinion, babies are capable of neither one of those things, so where does that leave us? Well, it left them confused, I think.

FWIW, I don't believe in any form of baptism, but I am offended by proxy baptisms on behalf of those who do have faith in them.