I had a discussion with a TBM family member about how you know the truth. I asked how they know their spiritual feelings are truer than those of a muslim or a hindu or an evangelical.

They said they just know it. That it is not scientific, just personal.

I asked how could god judge us if it is so personal/subjective?

They said that god judges us according to what we're given and how we respond.

I read this quote by Packer:

" Be careful lest you be deceived, for the devil may come disguised as an angel of light. The spiritual part of us and the emotional part of us are so closely linked that is possible to mistake an emotional impulse for something spiritual. We occasionally find people who receive what they assume to be spiritual promptings from God, when those promptings are either centered in the emotions or are from the adversary."
The Candle of the Lord - Ensign Jan. 1983
http://lds.org/ensign/1983/01/the-candle-of-the-lord?lang=eng

And asked how is it god set up a system that asks us to deny factual scientific information in favor of a spirit "truth meter" that is so easily mistaken by emotions or even the "adversary". How can a supreme being expect us to follow that?

This family member had no real answer except to then witness to me that they'd seen Jesus, and knew literally it is truth, which is more than any muslim or other can do, and that when I get to judgement bar and god shows me undeniable proof of himself, I better not deny it or else.

I was reminded of this experience Richard Dawkins had. I just didn't have the grapes to say this to my family--to tell them they are delusional.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8VaBCikHGs&;

Anyone have this kind of experience?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2011 01:09PM by Jesus Smith.

His father was a temple worker and pretty much told him that he got to see Regular Jesus in the temple.

That is totally awesome, right????

And how many kids say they see Santa each year?

How many people have said they've seen the "Virgin" Mary?

How many people say they've seen spooky ghosts?

How many have claimed visions of Muhammed?

Or Buddah?

Or Shiva?

Or Any other supernatural thingy dealy?

It's part of the human experience. Mormons are just so isolated sometimes that they really believe it's just them.

And then when they don't think it's just them, they pull the Luciferatops card...which begs the question.

If Satanosaurus can make himself into visions, why couldn't he have done that with Joseph Smith?

In NO account of the multiple first visions did Joseph Smith EVER SHAKE THEIR HANDS!!!

I saw Jesus, Even the Christ, in the temple once.

He had on a white robe, a green apron, and a baker's hat.

And he was samoan.

these people are merely following the MORmON gospel plan as set up by scam artist Joe.

Joe set out to make his own scripture, if a person was exceptionally faithful, joe'd let them see the Gold plates ..... with their spiritual eyes. Joe also claimed to have seen God. part of the *proof* of that and the bait to help ppl into the MORmON fold as well was that good ole Joe would set things up so others could do it too. Joe is such a great helper. Like when Joe helped so many families get guarantee tickets into MORmON heaven by marrying attractive women folk of that family. Good Old Joe!

The MORmON temple ceremony walks a member up to and through the veil, to converse with God.So when some MORmON member claims that they have seen God, they are just following Joe's plan and Joe's example.

I was always so disappointed when i saw God on the other side of the veil. Just some little bent over wrinkled up old man. i guess i had higher expectations after watching the movie :)

I have one relative who told me directly the details of when he saw Jesus Christ in the flesh. However, from the details it's clear that his state of mind and mental health at the time was seriously questionable.

I've been told that another relative of mine has seen Jesus, and another has seen the devil in person. I don't know the details of those encounters.

And that's nothing compared to the dozens of Jesus sightings in dreams and "visions" I've been told of. This is all within the aunts/uncles/cousins/grandparents range, and I've heard of them through either first-hand or multiple-second-hand sources.

Basically, it seems to me that you really have to screw up your mental and emotional health before you get the blessing of seeing the savior. I've even been told this directly by these witnesses, with prases like "you have to reach rock bottom" or "he will only come to you in your darkest hour."

Of course, when I express how questionable all of it is, or ask for something verifiable for which there isn't a valid and likely psychological explanation, they make me out to be evil, prideful, or deceived of the devil. Makes me laugh and cry at the same time.

You should have asked them if they offered their hand and exchanged tokens...

Ironically, that was not part of their descriptions. hmmm...

In the detailed account of seeing Jesus that I was told, it happened during a suicide attempt in zero-degree weather after a several-years-long bout with drug addiction. So now you know some of the criteria for seeing the lard.

And my Step-Dad is Hispanic, so I get to say stuff like that.

As the non believer or as the believer? lol

I don't think my family is schizo. But as others have said, it is a common pattern for many humans. Delusion protects the psyche...

or that Jesus is sending code messages.

Seeing Jesus is rare because then the patient wouldn't be Jesus.

I once tried to explain to my son that he could not both BE Jesus and also be receiving messages from Jesus in heaven.

He said I was trying to confuse him. Later, I discussed this with the psychiatrist and he said reasoning with a schizophrenic is not usually beneficial. He gave me this example of the perception of a delusional person:

I have a little man who lives in my palm. When I open it to show him to you, he scoots between my fingers to hide behind my hand. When I turn my hand to the back, he moves to the front. He doesn't want you to see him, so you can't.


Anagrammy

Nope. However I did talk to Saddam Hussien in a dream once. That was a weird one

Bloody mormons and dead people. My dad says he saw the jaws of hell, seen one of satans followers working down the high street. Used to freak the hell out of me. Would always give blessings where our dead ancestors would protect me from my own homosexuality. I turned out alright considering.

Think he is manic depressive, I dont think the church helps at all.

I am glad I had the chance to find an authentic peace and happiness. I think he knows it as well.

Ours were always about the struggles he saw in vision as we traveled to the New Jerusalem.

I can't count the number of blessings I have telling me I needed to be more obedient.

Last opening of the most recent temple in Utah (can't remember the city) there were a few sightings of Jeebus.....walking through a hallway, celestial room sighting, etc.

If you want to see him just study up on how to have a face to face encounter with Jesus in the temple.....duh.
Here's your prize: http://www.templestudy.com/2011/04/10/seeing-face-god-temple-part-1/

Now get out there and get your calling and election made sure already. Quit slacking.