because people don't live up to their temple covenants, which leaves them in Satan's power. People get depressed, yea unto suicide, if they don't live up to what they promise the Lord.

I didn't let her get away with it and used Uchtdorf's talk against her - the one where he tells women to quit worrying so much about being perfect. I told her it was more likely the way Mormon women feel they need to be perfect, more than develop character and quoted the high rate of plastic surgery in Utah. I wish I'd mentioned the fact that the majority of people in Utah haven't been through the temple - either because of their age, personal choice or not being LDS. And of the let's say, 49 percent of people in Utah who have been through the temple, probably 29 percent still have current temple recommends. So seriously, the other 20 percent account for the spike in depression? Seriously? Mom - Mormonism is making you stupid.

My brilliant 15-year-old said it was a good thing he wasn't on the other line when I was talking on the phone to Grandma because he would have said "Maybe going to the temple in the first place makes people depressed and suicidal." Which I would agree with because I had a case of low-grade depression/blues that coincided with me taking out my endowments and went away almost entirely when I took OFF the garments.

If I had ever been as happy in the church as I am OUT of the church - I probably never would have left. The pressure on women to do more (and smile, dammit!) is tremendous - and they do at least 90% of the actual WORK in the ward.

Does "Features 2" mean anything to you? Because I knew a Cora there, and I think the last name was Judd, too.

Can I have another hint?! There aren't that many of me. ;-)

I worked at in the early 90's. The Cora I knew was in that group with me.

in Mormonism and in Utah.

I do think some people in Utah are affected by the winter blues because of how high Utah is on the globe. That said, some of my most depressing times were when I lived in a very warm, southwest climate.

But more importantly, it's hard to be happy when:

-You have such high expectations for yourself that you can't possibly measure up. In other words, when you are a failure.

-Everybody is so busy acting perfect, that you actually believe that they are, and that YOU are the only imperfect one around.

-When you are emotionally isolated, because you don't dare say what you REALLY think because that isn't acceptable in your community.

-When you are stressed out because you have too many young children, plus church callings and extra financial obligations and you don't have a chance to relax and recharge. Physical exhaustion and stress take a heavy toll.

-when you think you are supposed to feel happy and spiritual all the time, and if you don't feel that way you think there is something WRONG with you, and it's an indication that you aren't righteous enough.

-When you structure your life by following someone ELSE'S guidelines for happiness, instead of following your own heart and doing things that you personally love.

Aah, no. Not me. But I did lose my wallet in Utah, so.....

Good point about the inters in Utah. I lived in Provo, in Walker Mortuary (!) during a winter when the sun didn't break through for 33 consecutive days. Dark times.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 01:48PM by corajudd.

Just imagine the IQ required of a honey bee in order to be happy. Or an ant, or any other creature in a collective.

Anagrammy

My nearly all mormon town was very cliquish so I had no social interaction. I had a husband gone from home all week and we spent five of the 20 hours he had on weekends in church.
Then with no money and no parks to meet other Moms in to let the kids play while we visited I had no friends. They were my at church on sunday friends. No activities outside their families and the church.

If they did have family get to gathers, pot lucks, or visits, it was with their kin, not anyone outside their cousins and etc!

I was severely isolated. I had not adult interaction all week long and I was on duty 24/7 tending to my children; three under five.
So to have me 'participate' in RS, I was put in charge of the Homemaking nursery so all the other mothers could visit during RS but not I!
I got to go to church and bring my three intelligent kids to nursery and have them play with the other kids, but no one to visit with that was an adult.

Then when they finally had someone else in charge of nursery when I showed up with a child or two I'd get the "oh the husbands are watching the kids at home tonight" story. It was because the RS Homemaking was having and extra special program they wanted "all the sisters to attend" with soft music, twinkly lights, table cloths, fine food, and china place settings and fun program, because the wanted the sisters to feel important!

The extra special meeting that was so important they even wanted the nursery leader to attend had no provisions for those of us who didn't have a 'husband' or "oldest child" to watch our kids so I was excluded!

Eventually I was diagnosed with clinical depression which I had to take medication for, for six months..... mormonism caused it, DUH!

The TSCC makes good people into morons, not better people!
If they don't become abusive themselves, they become depressed!

So you run one marathon in a day are you expected to run two more?

I guess that makes some sort of twisted sense

I guess it's also why the scandinavian countries are always ranked as 'happiest' in the world...... seeing as they are largely atheist.

Are you talking about uckdorfs talk from this last session?

He starts out saying God knows we're not perfect.but later toward the end of the talk he reinforces perfection.by saying that we need to work toward perfection.

I had the dammed debate over the same talk with my mother.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 08:33AM by nlocnil.

I am so happy that i never had to endure living in a predominately mormon town. all that happiness just sounds a little hard to take. I have always had the good fortune of living places where the only time i see mo's is if i want to, with occasional sightings at the grocery store.

And the Bible says we all fall short of the glory of God so this perfection talk is just jibberish....a scare tactic.

Yes, that's the talk. My mom is one of the Uchtdorf groupies. She thinks the talk was all about not judging others and not worrying about perfection. I figured I might as well use it to make my point about how depressing the goal of achieving perfection is.

1. Sexual repression among the saints
2. Pressure to be perfect among the saints
3. Non-members and inactives excluded from groups

These are all major drivers of depression and suicidal thoughts.

The excuse I heard then was that Utah is so advanced in mental health care that depression gets reported more often than in more backward states like California and New York, because there is better treatment. If you account for the difference in reporting and treatment, Utah actually has less depression than the rest of the U.S., because the gospel only brings joy. I expect to start hearing that again with the new statistic.

How could anyone possibly believe that?

He says the reason Utah has higher rates of depression and mental illness is because of the church programs, getting people the help they need. Other places, depression goes unreported and untreated but the church makes sure to take care of it's members.

Actually, I had a study bookmarked that said Utah is absolutely average both in mental health care and reporting. The church isn't making things better. When I tell DH that, he doesn't believe me.

That's insane!

The care I got as a young student mother in Utah Valley was sub-par.

Starting another thread so I don't rant and hijack...

There is a very strong social stigma in Utah for anyone who admits being on an antidepressant. My mother wouldn't go on one and I have several friends who keep going off their's. Even the ones on antidepressants are depressed and can't get off the bed.

I hid that I was on antidepressants for a long time.

The attitude is--no matter what spin they put on it--is if you have to go on antidepressants, you aren't living the commandments.

Personally, I was able to go off antidepressants once I left the church. I'm back on a low dose for situational depression--but I hope to go off soon.

Actually, my doctor is also an exmormon (and my therapist is). He says that they had me on too high of a dose when I used to take them and became painfully numb. I am on a very low dose of Prozac--lower than I've ever been on--and it seems to be just enough. At least in Utah--I've found that doctors just keep throwing drugs at people at higher and higher dosages rather than having them get other help.

Utah highest in the nation:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705392958/Utahns-think-about-suicide-more-than-other-Americans-study-shows.html

ask her where she got her data. that should shut her up.

They always have some insane statement from someone like Glenn Beck to back them up. If they don't quote general authorities...yeesh.

but it is a proven fact that over 70% of the suicides in Utah each year are people who are not LDS.

0f the 30% that are LDS, 75% of those are not active LDS.

also of note, over 50% of the suicides in Utah are homosexuals that are not LDS.

For a state with such a large LDS population, you are looking at less than 10% that are active LDS, so this is a non issue.

I doubt your numbers, but if your hypothesis were correct, Utah would have LOWER suicide rates than other states.

The unique feature about Utah is its Mormon population, yet you claim it's all the non-Mormons who are at fault. Then why doesn't NY match Utah's rates?

The only possible answer is that Mormons treat others like crap and that causes it, but the real answer is that you are full of it.

not total. It's not that difficult to figure this out. I hate the mormon church as well, but they are not the reason for this is all.

@ anon for this:

maybe, but we're talking about suicidal thoughts, not the act itself. I think it's a fair question to ask (i.e., do inactive mormons contribute to a high rate of suicidal thoughts in utah and is this a result of guilt of covenant breaking and/or the buffetings of satan).

I for one, want to shoot myself every time I have to sit through another sacrament meeting. I blame the fuzzy carpet walls ... not my breaking of temple covenants.

I'm guessing that, of all groups of people, this is a group that won't believe a thing just because it's tossed out there.

Could you share your sources for all of those numbers?

as 99% of what is posted here is not backed up by any source. In fact the original post states people kill themselves because they don't live up to temple things? CA girl just set the hook, and the rest bit like crazy. The stats are not that hard to find, if you want to learn about it don't take my word for it, research it on your own and you will see.

This board is great for 90% of what most of us need, but it gets old with the whole "blame mormons for everything" crap. I just get sick of it and wanted to present some facts before this gets out of hand and becomes another "mormon myth". Yes, they exist in the ex-mormon world as well.

The depression is caused by living up to ridiculous values that will never make you happy. Your mom is an example of why people in Utah are depressed. Going to the temple makes people miserable, because it's boring and meaningless, and then they feel guilty because they blame themselves for its failures.

who needs a Satan when there is LDS inc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGEyKCS7-is