Just had an argument with my TBM wife. I suggested that we go to the zoo tommorow, that we have a pre-paid annual pass (important - no money-changing). She flipped out and said that I was making her church-life difficult and that I didn't want what she wanted for our family. I asked why she was attacking me for wanting to spend time with my family? I also pointed out that I had already offered to drive her to church and attend with her.

She said something like "you know The Church commands us not to do things on the Sabbath"

I said "Why are church and family one and the same to you?"

She said "It's not just me, ALL good church members know that church and family are the same thing!"

WTF!?

...was to move from personal salvation/exaltation to it being all about Forever Families. OMG, you're putting your loved ones in danger -- here and in eternity -- if you don't do exactly what the leaders command! And, if you don't obey the leaders, it means you don't really love your family, and aren't worthy of them!

For most people, the family is their biggest emotional attachment, the thing that matters most. In comparison, loving God is, um, insubstantial. You can't see or touch him. It's like having a relationship with air. You want to protect and nurture your children. They count on you. But God is omnipotent and can take care of himself.

Why are there so many disbelievers who stay in the church? Because they don't want to fracture their families. Their families' happiness is more important than their own. That's how enormous the pull of family is, and the LDS church is expert at exploiting it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 08:55AM by Stray Mutt.

The REAL proclamation on the family:

If a child or relative of mine forsakes the Gospel, the holy Priesthood, his God, and the kingdom of God, farewell to that child or relative, whether near or distant. I own none as relatives, only those who love and serve our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. All that belong to my Father's house I own. I love them, I delight in their society, no matter whether they are poor or rich, learned or unlearned, if they observe the laws of the kingdom of God and live according to it.

JoD 9:156, Brigham Young, January 19, 1862

freeman, as many have pointed out, morg marriage is about roles. You have just stepped outside your role as peter priesthood. Who knows how else you might step outside the role? Your action is a threat to her world view.

Once she realizes that you are not disowning the family and her, then she will have less of a knee jerk reaction.

is that:

-You've already PAID for your annual pass. It costs you nothing more to go.

-The zookeepers have to work every single day of the year anyway to care for the animals. You wouldn't be making any difference in their work schedules.

-you would be celebrating God's creatures. Heck, that's almost like the temple movie, except you would be going to a LIVE session. :-)

-You'd be creating a family memory.


Yeah, I know it's not the TBM thing to do. She doesn't want to start down the slippery slope of doing FUN things on Sunday. Staying home and taking a nap would be more appropriate.

I don't know how much you should rock the boat, here. LDS people, especially women, are often highly motivated by fear, and can lash out if their comfort zone is threatened. It might be better to start small, like going up the canyon for a picnic on Sunday, or going for a bike ride in the evening. Once she has a positive experience, maybe she'll open up to other possibilities. But maybe going someplace that requires tickets is too much for now.

Personally, I don't think I'd want to fight about the zoo.

But you can't give in every time or she'll become a tyrant. There needs to be compromise, but you might need to go slow and gently with her to preserve the relationship.

If you are to be successful as a part-member Mormon family, YOU MUST REFRAME THE DEBATE.

It is not wife=Child of God and husband=Follower of Satan.

You must impress your wife that you have beliefs which are as important to you as hers. You can't have equal power if your religion is "none."

Tell her you find a spiritual anchor in nature and being in nature and viewing God's creations is your way of connecting with your spirituality. You have a right to express this on the holy day of Sunday and this is a way she can compromise with you on resolving religious differences in consideration of keeping the family together.

She is not a victim, you are not a perpetrator. You are a couple who once found spiritual solace the same way and now have different ways. Different but EQUAL. Your wife should go with you out of respect and tolerance for your religious beliefs (which you can say are "in transition" or what ever is real for you).

By you offering the respect by attending a good-for-nothing BORING meeting which is irritating to you, the least she can do is bring the children with you on an activity to enjoy God's creations.

By the way, it is not against the church to "do things" on Sunday. It is against the Bible to WORK on Sunday. Jesus specifically condemned the Old Testament Leviticus rules on rules regarding the Sabbath. The Jews could not walk on grass because they bent it and someone decided bending grass constituted "harvesting" work. Certainly she doesn't want to emulate a view that Jesus condemned?

You get the idea...

Good luck!

Anagrammy

Without getting into a debate about whether there is a real God to worship, let's just work from the premise that Mormons believe in God. But doing what God requires of them isn't their primary focus. Keeping their family together is. They can be pushed to any extremity to please the God of Family. They can be manipulated and worked to death and taught bad behavior is good ... all to protect what others have pointed out is their strongest earthly attachment. That is making the family their God.

If Mormons really put God first they wouldn't be afraid to question Mormonism, leave Mormonism, stand up for themselves etc. It's the fear of losing what they really worship, their family, that makes them pawns of Mormonism Inc. It takes a heck of a lot more courage and a heck of a lot more commitment to your real family to stand up to Mormonism and rescue your family from this manipulation, than it takes to knuckle under to bullies.

One sign of a cult is that THEY are your real family--ignoring the cult is ignoring your family. The mormon church takes this a step further by proclaiming that they are God's Kingdom on Earth. Other churches proclaim that they are the one true church, but I'm not sure they claim are literally God's own kingdom, right here on terra firma, and you don't want to piss off God, right in his face, by going to the frackin' ZOO!

Clearly, in Mormonism the church trumps the family in every way. And it is much like the fulfillment of what Jesus spoke of in the NT, that Man is now made for Mormonism, not Mormonism for Man. How is it that Mormons can't see what has happened?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 04:02PM by cludgie.

My 2 cents...

When your wife says stuff like:
""It's not just me, ALL good church members know that church and family are the same thing!""

That's a big red flag for me. Her "family" is not just hers to define. You have a family too and ideally..."your family" and "her family" should be one in the same, but clearly it isn't.

I'd probably say something like...if you're trying make me feel guilty for wanting to spend time with MY family, it's not working...Me and the kids will go to the zoo. YOU can go to church..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 03:24PM by nonmo.

I will take her to church tommorow and look after our daugher in nursery, as I always do. And then in the afternoon I will take the kids to the zoo, and the wife can come along if she wants!