What do you think of this situation?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/hertz-fires--some-muslim-drivers_n_1024708.html

Hertz fired 26 Muslims for not clocking out when they go pray. The Muslims don't like this because they feel monitored during their religious rituals.

I say if you can't go four hours without having your religion interfere, your employer should not have to respect your religion.

My question is this...I've worked with smokers who have to disappear a few minutes here and there throughout the day. This is less common nowadays. Should prayer be handled the same way as needing a smoke? They are the same to me...both are bad habits I'm glad I don't have (I have enough other bad habits).

To tie this in to another thread, when does a religion become a psychosis? If you have to stop and pray like some kind of religious OCD, you might have a problem. I have to be respectful of religion where I work. It's irritating but I knock myself out to play along. It's bad enough in a heavily Christian work environment. Imagine what it must be like where you have to mollycoddle Muslim prayer time.

One funny and sad personal note. Where I work, they hired a Muslim girl. She seemed a bit defensive about her head gear. She was quiet but nice enough- very young. I tried very hard to make her welcome. She only lasted two months. Christians in these here woods don't like no Muslims- or Mormons.

Islam reqires prayer 5 times a day at set times. It seems that employers could make a reasonable effort to accomodate them. I wouldn't expect a Muslim doctor to stop in the middle of a delicate surgery to pray, but a cab driver's work is a little different.Frankly there is a lot of anti Muslim hysteria in this country since 9/11.I guess it depends on the circumstances.

It really has nothing to do with religion. But one day I drove past a parking lot and a cab driver is by his car jumping rope (or jump roping, I don't know). I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that.

Good for him. Praying may not do much good, but working in a bit of exercise during an otherwise sedentary job is very healthy and admirable; especially since he had to endure being laughed at. Too bad sitting in the cab eating a cheeseburger would have been more socially acceptable.

I,for one, say treat them like any other employee ... no special privileges !

Why don't YOU hire all those muslims and then see if you get any work done !

Should they still be "accomodated" ?

I said reasonably accomodated and their religion does not make that requirement so it isn't an issue.

Good night, Dave.

I would complain to the cab company and if they didn't do something to assure that it NEVER happened again, I would not deal with that cab company again.

Anyone that regularly uses cabs knows that, often, the trip is somewhat time constrained and the customer should be able to expect timely service and the customers beliefs respected.

Sigh, that isn't what is being disputed. Read the article.

Gezzz, the article was not about cab drivers, that was you hijacking yet ANOTHER thread.

My comment about YOUR COMMENT, is valid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 09:39PM by MJ.

It was about Hertz drivers but same point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:11PM by bona dea.

"but a cab driver's work is a little different"?

Muslem cabbies don't stop in the middle of a trip to pray.

As the time for a prayer gets close, they go out of service near somewhere they can wash and pray. And although they try to pray together, it is permissable to do the prayer up until the time to begin the next prayer.

PS Jews don't make mastzo out of the blood of murdered Christian babies either.

Bona was saying that a surgeon should not stop what he was doing, but that a Cab driver was a different story, implying that a Cab driver was justified in stopping what they were doing where a surgeon was not.

Please try to follow the context of a thread. If you are going to say that a cab driver could schedule around prayer, why not tell bona that a surgeon would schedule surgeries?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:01PM by MJ.

A Muslim shouldn't stop his cab and make you miss your flight so that he can pray and that is not the way they handle it. Neither should a doctor leave a patient bleeding while he prays. He can schedule his surgeries around prayer times and a cabbie can simply not accept fares when he knows it is time for prayer. I think you are smart enough to get that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:07PM by bona dea.

If a surgeon does not have to stop performing their service if it conflicts with prayer, why should a cab driver be held to a different standard? A surgeon can schedule around his/her prayers and can choose to not do surgeries that would force a conflict. The same standard SHOULD apply to both, or one is just advocating hypocrisy.

Oh, and a driver for hertz is NOT at all the same as a cab driver



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:18PM by MJ.

Thank you. Some people seem to be deliberately obtuse. No one is saying the cabbie should stop mid trip and make his fare wait while he prays possibly causing him to miss a flight or be late to an urgent appointment.

And implying that there is a different standard?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:11PM by MJ.

Good night MJ

But I do love how you take your proverbial ball and go home when you can't answer a VALID QUESTION about what you claim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:17PM by MJ.

surgery? cab ride to airport? surgery? cab ride to airport?

You've convinced me! They're exactly the same!

I am not talking about the relative merits of the job, only that BOTH CAN SCHEDULE TO AVOID THE CONFLICT, so why are we saying that a surgeon does not have to reschedule, but a cabie does? A delicate surgery could be purely elective (not at all required to begin with), a cab ride that is late could have devastating consequences to the passenger (loss of job, loss of income, etc). Thus, a cab ride may have more important consequences than a surgery.

You and bona are advocating a double standard, Hypocrisy, start to finish.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:29PM by MJ.

patient bleeds out and dies during surgery? missed flight? patient dies? missed flight?

Damn you're persuasive. They're exactly the same.

Pregnant woman taking a cab to a hospital...

Imagine if this cab driver stopped to pray:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1521058/posts



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:45PM by MJ.

Imagine what would happen if THIS cab driver had stopped to pray!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1521058/posts

And so you are now saying that a cab driver should refuse to give a pregnant woman a ride to the hospital if he does not like how close the contractions are? Would this be based on his medical training a cab school?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:50PM by MJ.

LOL and J wonders why I ended the converssation. His logic makes me dizzy.MJ, I clearly said that both should schedule things so that they don't have to stop.The cabbies.'Hertz drivers can do it during their break and the surgeon can schedule his surgeries so they don't conflict with prayer. What part of that do you not get?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:30PM by bona dea.

Why is a surgeon not required to schedule surgeries to avoid conflicts when a cab driver is?

Yeah, magical thinkers get dizzy when confronted with logic and science. The fact that you get dizzy when confronted with valid logic proves nothing about what I say!

Learn to read and we will continue this conversation. I have said that both should schedule around prayer. Geez

But beyond that, why not actually read and address my point?

Why can't the surgeon be held to the same standard and schedule surgeries not to conflict with prayer as Lulu says a cab driver does ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 11:43PM by MJ.

They can and I have said so numerous times. WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT GET?

HALLELUJAH! HE FINALLY GETS IT.Now where did Lulu say they should be held to different standards? She said letting a patient die is a little more serious than missing a plane-and it is, but she didn't say that the surgeon shouldn't schedule his operation. You are jumping to conclusions, but what else is new?

In California during a normal 8 hour shift we get 2 10 min. breaks and a 30 min. lunch. It is highly monitored and we HAVE to take breaks when they are scheduled. Breaks are scheduled so that coverage of business needs are always covered.
2 people are never on break at the same time.

If people can do their religious thing in 10 mins. thats fine. If Hertz wants to make sure that the break is only 10 mins. that is good. I wish my employer did that because people abuse the break length all the time. If they can't perform their prayer in 10 mins. then they don't get to pray or, find another job. Breaks are monitored to protect the business.

I think all religious people have some kind of problem. The more religious the more pronounced the problem is.

I think that Hertz is making a reasonable accommodation.

It sounds reasonable on the surface, but I would like to hear the other side too.The idea of dealing with idividuals who are abusing breaks rather than changing rules for everyone sounds reasonable too. I'd just like to hear more about it before I decide. There could be some discrimination at play here or maybe these guys have a persecution complex. Hard to tell.

And I do not see where anyone was singled out based on religious beliefs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 09:57PM by MJ.

If it's their religion and want to pray, allow them to pray... on the condition that if they take longer than the normal break schedules allow, that they must then make up their work on their own time.

What if I want to take a nap 5 or 6 times during a working day ? Should an employer acommodate me ?

Most manufacturing jobs are such that one cannot "make up their work on their own time".

Sounds like you live in some kind of fantasy world.

way to create problems for each other. Here are the prayer times for today on the east coast.

10/22 5:43 7:14 12:40 3:38 6:04 7:30

Only two of them, perhaps three, occurr during usual working hours.

So since most wage workers get lunch, say about 12:00 to 1:00, and get an afternoon break, employers and employees can't work out something they can both work with? If you going looking for problems, you're sure to find some.

Aye, aye, people, gotta love em.

People need to make decisions all the time. Let's say that working on Sunday is not an option for me. Then I have to find a job that can accomodate me. Working for the police, fire department or a hospital would not be a good job choice since emergencies happen on all days including Sundays. It works both ways.It seems that the issue here is changing the rules in the middle of the game.I'd like to know more about it.

the policy to clock in and out for their breaks. Most employees signed the policy, 26 did not, and they were Muslim.
They are monitored during the breaks? How can they not be when they are praying in public.

In all my jobs, clocking in and out for a break was never instituted as policy.

The company wants them to clock out -- a perfectly reasonable desire as they are praying and not working at that point. To complain that their prayers are being monitored because they've been asked to pray on their own time and not the company's time is ludicrous.

in my jurisdiction require 2 breaks - 10 minutes minimum and 30 minute minimum lunch in an 8 hour workday. Thats a provincial standard. Federal standards require 15 minute breaks. Could people pray during their break? That would not require clocking out - but if there are not paid breaks its a different situation.

It seems that they are praying during breaks but are now required to clock out because a few people were abusing the system. They were not required to clock out previously and that is their objection.