I attended BYU a couple of years ago. I obeyed the honor code, but was struggling with my testimony. I talked to my bishop about it, who turned me into the honor code office. I was kicked out of school because I was leaving the church, even though I was obeying the honor code...that pushed me over the edge..

Sorry for you. This is so unfair. It is a deliberate policy to punish people.

...if you allow the church to dictate to you what to do and what to think, you will receive praise, love, and prestige. If you follow your own conscience, you will be judged and ostracized, as you painfully discovered.

They talk about those who leave as being “offended,” when it is the CHURCH that is offended when a sheeple dares to leave!

Welcome to a board full of people who followed their conscience, oldbyustudent!

Yes, oldbyustudent, the alternative to belief is punishment. "The beatings will continue until morale improves."

Respect Joseph Smith or suffer the consequence.

Well congratulations! Perhaps in time to come you will view this as the start of your life. BYU is nothing other than a church sanctioned, church controlled meat market so good little Mormons can make meet and make more good little Mormons, with a very non-rigorous education thrown in. Grab life by the horns and make something of it.

oldbyustudent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I attended BYU a couple of years ago. I obeyed
> the honor code, but was struggling with my
> testimony. I talked to my bishop about it, who
> turned me into the honor code office.

What an ass. But it was good that you saw the truth. The morg is great for forcing its members to see how petty it is.
How it can call itself a religion, is beyond me, it is just a money making corporation.

BYU Bishops are not there for you; they are there for the church to spy on you. Normal LDS Bishops have little power over you, but a BYU Bishop can destroy your academic career.

Please tell us that you completed your degree somewhere else. I'd hate to think he ruined your life and ability to support yourself with his pettiness.

Did you get a refund of tuition and fees? How did you handle breaking your lease (if you had one)? How was the "you are kicked out" communication arrive to you...letter, verbal?

Just curious,

Ron

When I was at YBU, I was mortified by how the peons in the Testing Center were allowed to dictate what was acceptable (and I was a TBM at the time). These were fellow students and they had the power to tell you whether or not you could take your test based on whether or not they felt you were adhering to the Honor Code. For example, my BFF and I showed up to take an exam and they refused to let my BFF take it until she removed a tiny diamond stud from her upper ear... and this was about five years before the whole official "women can only have piercing per ear" announcement!! They refused to let another friend of mine take her exam until she changed clothes (she was wearing leggings under a short skirt) and one guy I knew had put a stripe of blue paint in his hair for a football game and had to go home and wash it out before they let him in.

In other words, your bishop was an ass but he's not the only one. The students there do it too, and to each other. It's like the old Stalinist "let's rat out our neighbors so the regime goes easier on us" garbage.

I kind of find it hard to believe you would get kicked out of BYU for not believing yet they will allow students who are not members of the church to attend as long as they obey the honor code. Is this a double standard or is there more to this story?

I saw stuff like this happen when I was there, ablmu65. The difference is that they want nonmembers to attend so they can try to convert them and also to help make the school look better to outsiders and boost ratings in football, etc (such as all the nonmember athletes that attend on sports scholarships). A lot of the athletes will tell you that they did not know all the details about the Honor Code before they committed. Members are held to a different standard as far as church belief & attendance. They have so many members wanting to get in that they know they won't have a shortage if they kick anyone out.

Angel, thank you for your response, I never went to breedthem young, had friends that went so my sources are kind of second hand. One bright star is that my daughter doesn't want to go to the "Y" and we are so proud of her.

You're welcome... I always love to toss my two cents in. :) That is fantastic about your daughter! I would give anything to go back and change my own 'choice' (aka brainwashing) to attend. They took roll at church - during all three classes, not just sacrament - and carefully track your attendance. If you have less than a certain amount (I can't remember exactly what it was - something like 85%?) you get called in to chat with the Bishop and get put on probation. I had an off-campus job when I first started and it required work on Sundays. I went to sacrament but then left to go to work, and that got me called in for a warning. When I explained that it was for work, you woulda thought I was out prostituting myself or something! It was "strongly suggested" that I quit my job immediately. (My boss switched my shifts with a lot of grumbling and I eventually did have to quit because she made my life such hell about it. Looking back now, I can't believe what an idiot I was. I wonder about people who have 'essential' jobs on Sunday, like nurses...)

We were really surprised by her reasoning, she had put all the positives and negatives on the board, and calmly explained her choice of schools. I have always preached to my kids to do their homework before making a choice and it was a good feeling to see that she was listening. Anyway a good part of her reason not to go was the lack of diversity. Too many Mormons. My daughter is a TBM so this was a bit of a surprise coming from her. She was worried that we would think less of her if she didn't go and I told her I couldn't be more proud of her for doing what she felt was right not what someone else wanted her to do. I love being a dad.

If you are a MO, you can be kicked out for changing your religion while attending. It's a disgusting and hypocritical rule. If a non-member wants to convert, they are welcomed with open arms. Why else would they make EVERYONE who attends take BoM classes as a requirement to graduate?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2011 10:51AM by Itzpapalotl.

with the BYU powers looking for heretics around every corner.

My son (who is a skeptic) has a roommate who has told his bishop he doesn't believe. He is still in BYU and plans to graduate this semester (I believe).

I think there is more to your story than you are telling us...

By the way, I attended BYU. As long as you obeyed the honor code and went to church (even sometimes), you could stay in good standing.

I am skeptical...

(which I assume included not attending meetings) not just because he/she didn't believe.

I had a friend who was an unbeliever at BYU. They would have let her stay, if she would go through the motions of attending her church meetings. But she couldn't stand it any longer and stopped going. And she had to leave BYU. They wouldn't LET her pay non-LDS tuition to stay as a non-member.

Also, if you actually leave the church, you are ineligible to attend BYU, even if you follow all the standards. No apostates allowed. (I had wanted to take a class after I left the church, but I found by reading the application materials that I could not).

A positive note on my friend: She moved out of state to a more liberal and tolerant community, finished her graduate work at another school, and still lives there today. Just think, she might have been stuck in Utah still if she hadn't been forced out!

You can't just leave us there. I need more details. What were some of the particular things that the bishop and honor code office said. What did you say? What was their reasoning that you were leaving the church? Were you leaving, or were you just 'struggling' with your testimony? Did they justify kicking you out because your bishop wouldn't sign your ecclesiastical endorsement? Did your bishop grant you a grace period in which you could read the scriptures and pray about it first? What was your major?

The BYU policy against exmos is the most troubling for me. Even if you join another church, even one that many nevermo BYU students go to, they won't let you stay.

Welcome to freedom and unconditional love.

You mean to tell me that you could believe in magical underwear? You don't believe that a man could write a book via the use of a magical rock and a magical hat? Oh yee unbelieving.

the moment you start missionary lessons and drop out, or join and drop out, you have "heard the gospel and rejected it," aka, scum.

BYU is training future Mormon householders who will then spy and turn in their neighbors. I once was reported as a possible polygamist because I had long hair, wore long skirts (had a cast on my leg) and had seven children with no man around. When I laughed, my Jehovah Witness friend told me it's no joke--they burned down the house of the last open polygs in Cache Valley. (this was in 1983) This was the incident that got me into investigating the local polygamists.

BYU has to stamp our any tolerance of non-belief FROM FORMER MEMBERS and crush their dreams for having the gall to change their minds. This is all the more repugnant considering that the religion misrepresents itself via the missionaries AND does not teach accurate Church history.

When people shun you, be thankful they are controlling their natural Christ-like desire to hurt you for not believing. I looked this up in the Bible and it says in John for the believers to withhold hospitality, food, drink from any who have left the fold because they didn't believe Christ was spirit AND body. So there you have the basis for this cruel behavior. Not Jesus, mind you, these are the thoughts of church fathers much later.

Anagrammy

About what I'd expect from the honor code Natzi's.....I had to deal with them at Ricks back in the 60's....left a very bad taste in my mouth.....

I agree with some others. I have doubts. It's always interesting when someone rolls a grenade into the room then doesn't stick around to see the result (responses).

But, nothing surprises me about BYU any more. I just choose not to believe everything I hear.

Ron

Do you think it might be a "currentbyustudent" troll? The lack of details sounded fishy to me from the start, but I'm trying to hold off judgment until further details are revealed, as per my above request. The grenade analogy could be fitting.

Do you recall what it said?
<<<--- Curious about what they say!

as there are many people who leave the church but stay in school at BYU. A starting WR last season, RM, left the church and opening joined another faith, yet he was allowed to stay in school and be in the public limelite representing the school. There is more to your story.

This tells you two things about BYU:

1. They don't want people to tell the truth. There is all the incentive in the world to lie about your beliefs and actions at BYU. Honesty gets you kicked out.

2. They don't really believe in repentance.

In a lot of ways they did you a favor. A degree from there doesn't mean nearly as much as mormos think it does.

I would like a do over and skip the whole byu/mission thing. You get a chance to live my life! From where I'm standing you are lucky and I'm envious.