http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/Postgame-Haka-dancers-in-Utah-pepper-sprayed-by-?urn=highschool-wp7506

News picked up by AP, Deseret News and Salt Lake Tribune. Anyone know or see why the dancers were pepper sprayed? UT police not familiar with Tongan Haka dance? Did they mistake it for a gang ritual or something?

edited to read Tongan, not NZ dance



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2011 08:16AM by charles, buddhist punk.

I find police in Salt Lake to be enormous ego maniacs. There seems to be a disproportional amount of citizen shootings and stand-offs by police also. But....I'm from a small state (MT) and have zero to compare with.

Anyone who has lived in more than one metropolitan area including Salt Lake, is the behavior of the police over the top in general or quite normal for larger populations?

Well, that's just what you'd expect from the town of Roosevelt, I guess. Dad grew up in Maeser and really never had a good word to say about Roosevelt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2011 10:25AM by fossilman.

They were being egged on from the beginning, it sounded like, and it seemed pretty unsportsmanlike, not to mention intimidating. Whether the chanters could hear the police or not, it looked like they were ignoring them, and could see the police in front of them trying to get them to clear the way. It looked like the Tongans (I assume they're Tongans) were trying to block the way and intimidate. I don't feel too sorry for them, but I do think the police could have handled it better. However, intimidating assholes shouldn't be allowed to physically intimidate the opposing side at a HS football game. I'll bet this isn't the first time this kind of behavior occurred on the part of the Tongans, and the police didn't have much tolerance for it. Pepper spray was over the top, but I'm certainly not all up in arms over it.

Haka dance was intimidating?

OK, OK. Noding head.

the Maori used it before battle with the people they were trying to intimidate no???

War haka (peruperu) were originally performed by warriors before a battle, proclaiming their strength and prowess in order to intimidate the opposition. Today, haka constitute an integral part of formal or official welcome ceremonies for distinguished visitors or foreign dignitaries, serving to impart a sense of the importance of the occasion.
so the dance CAN be used for other than intimidation...but it seems to be its main purpose especially in this instance!
and the people were blocking the exit!! not Kosher! OY VAY!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2011 03:27PM by bignevermo.

but I also know that now when it is performed these days its not a precurser to actual warfare.

That's why when I'm at a fencing match, I refrain from pepper sraying the participants.

slay the opponent with you "rapier" wit?? :)

Not having watched the video, I don't know if they were being intimidating. As for the dance, many many teams do it, it is part of the pre or post-game thing. All teams I have seen play football do something, and the Haka is very prevalent here in utah. My son and the teams he has been on do it.

and no, they are not tongans only. anyone and everyone does it. hmmm. Assumptions.

situation from the article, they were told not to block an exit and continued to block it. I'm guessing they were told several times, and when the people refused to move and stop blocking the exit they were pepper-sprayed.

Maybe the people needed to do the dance away from the exit and not block it.

I'm guessing the police saw that as a dangerous situation when an exit is blocked.
When people do not follow police instructions, it appears that it's OK to use some kind of force, like pepper spray. I've seen that done in dozens of TV police type shows. Don't cooperate, when told more than once, they can be pepper-sprayed.

Just speculation... based on the report.

Shhhhh. Don't tell anyone . . . but . . . TV shows aren't real.

lulu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shhhhh. Don't tell anyone . . . but . . . TV shows
> aren't real.


The cop shows I am referring to are...definitely...real! :-)

I apologize for the above. It was completely inappropriate.

but you were serious??? i didnt think you were!! guess i am still gullible!!

And nomomomo, it would be better to watch the video before commenting on it. I've seen enough of what I consider police brutality to recognize it, but not so much in this case. This is not appropriate behavior at a HS football game. It looked like clear, physical intimidation, not just chanting. They were blocking the exit from the field and did not move out of the way.

Watched the video. Looks like every day high school football to me. What's wrong with chanting from the stands? If they intimidated the opposing team it means they're doing it right.

Guess these days the dude should be grateful it wasn't a taser...

As citizens, we've given waaaaay too much power to our "serve and protect" local police departments.

The following, for example, is absolutely chilling. If it doesn't chill you to the bone then you've forgotten what it is to be a citizen and what it is to be free.


http://current.com/shows/countdown/videos/occupy-wall-street-naomi-wolf-calls-attention-to-the-disturbing-involvement-of-homeland-security-in-her-arrest

These are two very separate and distinct situations. I don't see how they can be compared. Thugs barring the exit of student athletes from the exit of a playing field during or shortly after a game is indefensible IMO. These were not simply students chanting from the stands. I do think that using pepper spray was uncalled for, especially since it affected innocent bystanders, but those chanting jerks should have been forcibly removed when they chose to ignore the police and block exit from the field with their intimidating antics. It was at the very least really poor sportsmanship.

In the first 30 seconds or so I see a bunch of people chillin' after a game, including a lady with an infant. All sorts of people are passing by the "big guys", so I don't see them blocking an exit.

Then I see what I take to be an opposing team football player go by, and the "big guys" throw a taut his way; and then proceed with their chant. The cop immediately starts pushing the chanters backwards and they comply, while continuing with their chant. I guess not fast enough,though, for in seconds the cop proceeds with the spray and you hear a dude (rightfully, I think) threaten to sue.

Poor sportsmanship, perhaps. But it's definitely poor police work. The guys were backing up just fine upon the cop's forward movement. But why did they have to immediately back up? If the cop had patience enough to allow the chant to finish... What's another two minutes, tops?

I think the police work here was pure stupidity.

They weren't blocking the entrance. All sorts of people were walking through. Besides, there was a cop right there the entire time, so how unsafe could anyone actually feel?

An off-camera voice, which I take to be the one taking the video or at least with the one taking the video, says a few times, "go, they will hear you." I assume she is trying to video them doing their chant.

The cops were way out of line. They could have waited a minute or two for the chanters to finish their chant. How hard would that have been?

Serena, think carefully before you condone this kind of behaviour from your police force.

they turned back a player with a dark jersey on!!! they were not letting people thru then.... THATS when the cops took over. the cop was very subtle with the spray...hehehe.... they(haka) turned away a player trying to leave..they told him to back up..... all the cop wanted was for them to at least let people by..... instead the haka people closed up ranks and denied people egress!! the cop said at least twice...make a hole... he didnt say they couldnt do the haka...just dont block the egress!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 05:55PM by bignevermo.

This is from another news source that picked up the story:

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/10/police-pepper-spray-tonga-boys-after-high-school-football-game/

"After Union lost the game, a group of Tongan fans tried to help boost their team’s morale by performing the Haka, a traditional war chant that is performed at football and rugby games around the state."

"The police felt the boys were blocking the exit from the field, and yelled at them to move. When coaches, players and family members tried telling the cops that it was okay, and to let them continue the Haka, the cops allegedly began spraying the crowd of performers, players and fans with pepper spray."

"A Roosevelt resident who asked The Desert News to identify her only as Breana, said her husband was among of the performers who were sprayed. “It was continual spraying and spraying,” Breana told The Desert News, and said that not only was her husband sprayed, he was hit in the face with a police baton. She also reported that her 4-year-old son was also exposed to the spray."

"Another person on the scene, Shawn Mitchell, told The Desert News that his young son and daughter, as well as his mother-in-law, were affected by the pepper spray. He called the response to the Haka an overreaction."

“I didn’t see anything that looked like there could be a threat,” he said.

"Union fan Jason Kelly told The Desert News that the way police treated the visitors was an embarrassment to the community of Roosevelt."

“I’ve never seen anything like it,” Kelly said. “It was totally unprovoked.”

but in the vid the haka dancers refused egress to a player whose number i could not see....it is in the vid.... the cops before the haka "players" started their chants told them to make a hole...they refused...then the dance started and they were asked again to make a hole.... they cannot block the exit from the field...which is what they did...i was not there ...but from the vid that is shown the haka people did not care about anyones egress from the field.... why could they not line up opposite each other? if they hAd there would have been egress and the mace would not have been necessary! and it still would have been intimidating...which is what this seems to be about!

"the mace would not have been necessary!"

The mace was not necessary. That is the whole point. The only people who got hurt were those injured by the mace. It was not a group of street thugs intimidating the public. They were friends and relatives of the players. Some were fathers, with their wives and children also exposed to the mace. The argument of blocking the exit pales in comparison to the response from the police.

they were blocking the exit!!!

I believe they were blocking the exit and not obeying commands.

I'm not saying that I agree with the police, I very much am against this type of force, but that is their reasoning.

The officers prayed about it first and did what the lord told them to do. They felt the spirit burning in their bosoms and wanted to spread it.

Line too long at the grocery store?

Pepper spray to the face!!!

Teenagers with skinny jeans hanging out in front of your house?

Pepper spray to the face!!!

Too many toddlers at the neighborhood pool?

Pepper spray to the face!!!

have put up teams of Morris Dancers against them!

Is this another example of Utah knowing F-all about the world outside their State? Very sad. Lucky they did not cause an International Incident.

I hope they DO sue them.

for the Morrys comment!! Matt!! :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 03:49PM by bignevermo.