In another thread, an earnestly lying and easily identifiable TBM troll came on to the RfM board to defend against the proposition that Mormonism isn't Christian--and did so under the immensely creative handle of "What a joke" and "joke."

In their transparent effort at lying for the Lord, this LDS apologist spun blatant untruths about their own identity and beliefs. That didn't last for long, as the troll was soon outted and ultimately confessed here in the open to being deceitful and to being a Mormon (often synonymous terms, unfortunately), before high-tailing it for the tall grass.
_____


Here's how it played out:

--Posted by: What a joke

"The bible is contradictory, have you not noticed? We are saved by grace, but faith without works is dead.

"Saying a mormon isn't christian because he doesn't line up with your arbitrary interpretation of the (intentionally vague) bible is unwarranted. My jesus is better than your jesus!

"Get a grip."


--Reply: steve benson

"Read up on Mormonism's history of killing sinners because Jesus needed them dead before he could save them. Your defense of Mormonism's non-Christian barbarity is the real joke.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,326822,326984#msg-326984

"I believe you need to get a grip on the history of the Mormon Church for which you are making unintelligent and uninformed excuses."
_____


--Posted by: joke

"If Jesus was so clear on what he wanted his followers to do, then why are there thousands of different sects with alternating beliefs and practices?

"'grip on the history of the Mormon Church'

"No, I don't need to read a novel about church history to know they believe in Jesus."


--Reply: steve benson

"The Mormon Jesus was clear on what to do with sinners: Kill 'em so Jesus can save 'em. So, this is Jesus-based doctrine? According to Mormonism's founders it was."
_____


--Posted by: joke

"Jesus was never clear on what to do with sinners. forgive them, love them, send them into a eternal fiery hell... Jehovah is one with Jesus, right? Don't most Christians still practice genital mutilation?"


--Reply: steve benson

"But the hog-tied Mormon Jesus was emphatic on what to do with certain sinners. Read your history on original Mormon doctrine as preached & practiced by its inventors. Do you read?

"For your benefit I have posted the Mormon Church's early doctrinal history on this. You're hanging out in this thread. Try reading it."
_____


--Posted by: joke

"you're equating mormon jesus of 150 years ago with today's. 98% of mormons don't even know the old mormon jesus exists. so in a debate about current events old mormon jesus is HIGHLY irrelevant."


--Reply: steve benson

"Joseph Smith thought it was relevant and if Mormons don't know Joseph Smith's views, that's their problem.

"Was Joseph Smith teaching back then false doctrine not applicable to today's Mormons?

"Be careful how you answer for your church. After all, he was the head-honcho founder of Mormonism. Wait, God was, according to Mormon doctrine--so that must mean that both God and Joseph Smith are wrong for today's Mormons."
_____


--Posted by: joke

"thanks for assuming, but I'm an atheist"


--Reply: steve benson

"Uh-huh. An atheist who thinks, talks and writes like a Mormon.

"And you haven't answered the question:

"Was Joseph Smith teaching back then false doctrine not applicable to today's Mormons?"
_____


--Posted by: joke

"yeah... you're making a lot of sense here bud. i talk sh** [expletive deleted] about jehovah and jesus and the bible being contradictory and I'm automatically a mormon. later kid."


--Posted by: steve benson

"Still haven't answered the question, joker. When cornered, cowardly Mormons like you flee. Bye."
_____


--Posted by: joke

"i answered you below bro. but paste this into your Benson 1: mormons:0 column because you can't handle the fact that a non-mormon might not agree with you"


--Reply: steve benson

"Back again after turning tail and running the first time? Your insecurity is showing.

"Oh, and now you're not only an atheist but a non-Mormon. Get your story straight. Which came first?"
_____


--Posted by: joke

"well you can't seem to handle the fact that i'm an atheist so i put me in the mormon column to make the work a little less hard for you"


--Reply: steve benson

"Back yet AGAIN? To repeat: Which came first, the non-Mormon or the atheist? Still dodging."
_____


--Posted by: joke

"Pay attention to me! I stopped being cowardly and insecure, but i'm still mormon! I'm ready to debate again!"


--Reply: steve benson

"You are getting your much-needed attention because you keep coming back after saying you were leaving. That is insecurity.

"And now you're confessing that, contrary to your claims, you really aren't an atheist or a non-Mormon, but a Mormon after all.

"Which therefore also exposes you as a liar."
_____


--Posted by: joke

"was moses teaching false doctrines applicable to todays christians? his doctrines directly contradict today's christian authors

"my answer is the same"


--Reply: steve benson

"We are talking about the conditional love of the Mormon God, as it contrasts to the teachings of the New Testament Jesus, not to the Old Testament Moses. Nice try, Mormon guy."
______


--Posted by: joke

"liar, coward, mormon, insecure, what other qualities do I hold? pray, tell me more mister internet cold-reader!"


--Reply: steve benson

"Back yet again? You just admitted you were a Mormon, after saying you weren't. So, as already duly noted when you did that, add 'liar' to your list of character traits.

"Quote: 'Pay attention to me! I stopped being cowardly and insecure, but i'm still mormon! I'm ready to debate again!'

"(Posted by: joke, Date: October 25, 2011 03:20AM, Re: 'Still haven't answered the question, joker. When cornered, cowardly Mormons like you flee. Bye.')"
_____


***NOW COMES THE INEVITABLE CONFESSION***

--Posted by: joke

"I truly apologize for behaving childishly, I was a bit taken off by your argument and was annoyed and lashed back. and I actually am a mormon. It's getting late though so I need to go."


--Reply: steve benson

"See what Mormonsim has done to you? It's made you childlish, insecure & a liar. You do need to go--to the door marked 'Exit' & get the hell out of Mormonsim. It's destroying you."

(for the entire thread, see: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,326822)

*****


Another lying Mormon troll bites the dust. Their numbers are piling up here. :)



Edited 14 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 06:01AM by steve benson.

They come with what they think is the truth.

They go with what they know is the truth.

Which is exactly why TSCC calls this site "anti-Mormon" and bans it's members from visiting here.

I am emphatically not a mormon and am an agnostic atheist

and I agree with a lot of the points which you railed against.

Mormons are just another christian sect. they do put jesus in their belief system - maybe not at the centre, but that doesn't make any difference to their Christianity

there is NO unbiased standard by which to measure if a cult is 'christian' or not, other than their claim to believe in christ.

any measure of Christianity is usually made by someone who is already biased towards one sect or another.

[but - like an innocent man who will confess to anything after 3 hours of waterboarding, I can imagine someone admitting to being a mormon and walking away, rather than debate the *all knowing* steve benson]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 05:18AM by EssexExMo.

Mormons can say anything they want about being Christian, but that does not make them so, based on common, traditional, historical, established and generally accepted definitions of what constitutes Christianity.

Here's why Mormons, by basic definition, aren't Christian (keep in mind that you are hearing this from an avowed atheist, not from the strange hybrid of "agnostic atheist" that you claim to be);

Biblical Christians believe that God's love, through the all-compassing sacrificial atonement of Jesus, is available to all sinners, regardless of their imperfections and shortcomings.

On the other hand, the Mormon God is one who requires the human-induced shedding of the murderer's blood before Christ can step in and "save." "Obey and I'll save you, but not unless you work hard to earn My love," says the Mormon God. "Accept me into your heart, sinner, and believe on me, and I'll save you, regardless of your imperfect works," says the Christian God.

The Mormon God's power is limited and conditional. The Christian God's is not.

Never the two shall meet.

For more on why Mormons are definitionally not Christian, see this earlier RfM discussion on the subject, where it is demonstrated that Mormons do not doctrinally embrace the standard Christian dogma of Christ's unconditional love:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon177.htm


Further, below are historical examples of decidedly and notoriously anti-Christian attacks launched by some of the Mormon Church's highest leaders (i.e., "prophets, seers and revelators," as LDS presidents and apostles are so designated):

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon162.htm


By their own history, words, doctrine and practice, Mormons are not Christian.
_____


Pray about it. Wait, you don't pray. Try thinking about it, then.

In the meantime, nice attempt at defending a confessed Mormon troll--hardly the "innocent man" you profess him to be. :)



Edited 15 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 06:04AM by steve benson.

Was Mormonism Christian before Christ came to Earth, or was it Adamtian or Noahtian or Godtian or what?

hope you feel validated, what with all the board patting you on the back. wow, you should be on law & order or csi, yea even NCIS

are you a colege professor with tenure? you seem to have a undying desire to be validated and sa "look at me" at every turn.

"colege professor"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 06:10AM by steve benson.

Can you explain facsimilies 2 & 3 to us?

I see four responses before yours, none of which directly address Steve or look like they're "patting him on the back". Exaggerate much?

If someone wants to refute another poster's statements, all they have to do is bring evidence to the table or state facts that will show where the other poster's view is wrong and theirs is right. Insults and side-tracking won't do it.

As for the query below about the point of this thread. Well, for one, I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm still so gullible. I really _should_ be in a cult somewhere. :(

I didn't spot that the poster in question was Mormon. Reading the first thread, I thought Steve may have been hasty in assigning TBM or troll status to him. I was surprised when without much arm-twisting the guy came back and admitted he was a Mormon, after first saying he was an atheist.

I just cannot believe that people will make false statements like that and so I get caught - every time. In my EV circles, it's a big deal to "deny Jesus" and I've even imagined being held prisoner in a godless wilderness somewhere and wondered if I would be a craven coward and denounce Christ or would I be martyr material and profess Him to my dying (tortured) breath. I fear I'd be the coward type. I'm allergic to pain. I think I'd say whatever it took to live and fight another day. Absent the godless wilderness scenario, in everyday life I would not lie about any belief that I hold dear. I may not immediately disclose my identity or beliefs but if asked I wouldn't lie. I can't imagine saying I'm an atheist when I'm a Christian. To me, that is a form of denial that's worse than denying under extreme pressure, the latter being understandable.

Among the valuable lessons at RfM for the taking that I have really appreciated through the years are how to become less sensitive, more fact-based, less gullible, more insightful and more knowledgeable about various topics, as well as honing writing and debating skills. Obviously I still have a long way to go to avoid being easily taken in. I know I tend to take people at face value and believe what they say (i.e., I believed the mo mishies who told me pre-baptism "there is no other doctrine", only what they had covered in the "discussions", which was not much). Still, though, I keep doing it. Good thing I don't have Moonies knocking on my door!

So, if nothing else, Steve's little expose has reminded me of my ongoing gullibility and I've given myself a good slap already this morning.

To the TBM who tried to tangle with Steve Benson but showed up to a duel with a lollypop, what the heck?? But still, you're welcome to lurk and post if you don't feel a need to defend Mormonism. We've been there, done that and there is nothing a Mormon can say that would entice most or even any exmos back into a church we left for good reason. Not even me, the Great Gullible One. It is always good to read opposing opinions. It's amazing how many of them can be true, contrary to our expectations.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 12:08PM by Nightingale.

The Tenacious Steve-o!

What is the point of this thread?

You'd think these types would learn.

Nah, they're totally-invested Mormons.

But then again, so once were some of us--until we wised up and faced the truth.

So, perhaps there still is hope for them. :)



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 01:26PM by steve benson.

what a night owl! the point of the thread is our resident troll eater ate one!! :) you used to be a troll eater too didnt you doggy??

Whatta ya wanna bet that was a late-teen/early-twenties dude?

Ron

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 01:21PM by steve benson.

hey, me again from last night. I'm laughing so hard right now. Steve you really are too easy to fool. After the relentless slew of ad hominems and incitements, I thought I'd throw a simple trick. Worked like a charm.
I was a regular for a few years back but the dogma of this board just reminded me too much of mormonism so I left. Twas nice to visit, peace.

So NG learns yet another lesson. I'm grumpy now.

STORMY saga!! OY VAY!!! we must be brothers/sisters in arms being so gullible as we are!! :(
:)

And "Twas nice to visit, peace"?

Hardly. You'll be back just as you demonstrated last night and again today, tormented and rationalizing as usual.

RfM causes you much personal grief, don't it, handle-flipper? :)

Which raises the question: What was your board handle when you say you were "a regular" here "for a few years"?

Do tell. I'm sure some of us will recognize the name.



Edited 15 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 03:11PM by steve benson.

musta missed that one!! :)

here is definition of dogma:
Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization[1]. It is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or believers.
what doctrine do we all adhere to? do tell!! :)

And if we all can't even agree on that, well......

well maybe!! :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 03:31PM by bignevermo.

Probably grew up in a patriarchal Mormon household with an autocratic old man and can't perceive anything else so when some someone makes a definitive statement with a bit of authority behind it the old demons surface... No charge for the pscyhotherapy there, Definitely-a-Joke...

And Raptor, please pick a phrase besides "totally awesome" to describe yourself. Ask your Utah relatives about "Super Dell" Schanze, a local TBM nutjob/concealed firearms zealot and owner of "Totally Awesome Computers" which, fortunately, went blessedly bankrupt here a few years ago...

You don't want anyone making that connection, sub-conscious or otherwise...

Humble and content you should be as one of the good guys you are...

Obi Wan Cabdriver