Is it the history; men of God acting repugnantly, changes in doctrine, and so forth?

Is it the doctrine; nonsensical requirements for handshakes and passwords, the curse of Cain, and the like?

Is it the culture; class distinction, hero worship, and other things?

Is it the abuse of its members; tithing, temple recommend interviews and such?

Is it the verifiable untruths; Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, and all of the false prophesies?

Is it something else?

For me the doctrine drove me away, I could no longer twist my mind into knots. I came to understand that Mormon God could be diagnosed with multiple personality disorders. Mormon God was both all powerful and powerless (able to save but unable unless you learned the handshakes). Both all good and evil (find my keys but allow rape, murder and unspeakable suffering). I could go on but the bottom line is Mormon Doctrine is directly opposed to Mormon God, I couldn’t take it anymore.

I know for most of us it was a combination of these things, and all of them are interrelated but narrow it down to one.

For me it started with the Masonry connection,then snowballed from there.

The realization of how much lying was going on brought it all to a screeching halt.

Same here. Questions on the temple got me started which led into masonry. I even met with the denver temple president, and all he could say is there is no connection whatsoever. Either he was delusional, or had no idea what he was talking about, or just plain lying. "just attend the temple and pray about it brother.. You'll find your answers". Such nonsense.

Church history was my main thing

Like you mention, it was a combination of all these things for me, but what first started me thinking was simply that participation in the church didn't do anything for me - wasn't fulfilling. That, along with the immense burden of time and money, was the catalyst for me to finally pull down all the shelved items from prior years. Unfortunately, this process didn't start until I was in my late 20s and early 30s.

Just to follow up, did you feel that your participation and commitments to the church without any visible return, was abusive?

The only reason I ask this is, because as I have been raising my children I often wonder if the demands that I make of them seem abusive to them, even if I see their benefit.

Facing a young JWs that reminded me a lot of myself when I was a young mo. I disliked what I saw. Very judgemental, thinking that if only people had the truth like you, etc. I was no longer judgemental but I remembered being like that when I was a young woman growing up. And also one day I finaly read part of the watch tower or something like that and the guy's story was freakingly exactly like the testimonies you hear on f&t meeting and in the Enseign. Realised 2 things: 1. Every member of any church received the same 'testimony' about their churc
and 2.It's very dangerous to think you have the truth and need to save the rest of the world.

Then while dusting bookshelf for no reason picked up the d&c institute manual and opened it at random, ended up on the explation given for d&c 95, verses 1 and 2. Found out that god was going to chastize his people because they had not started on the building of the temple after the revelation givin by him 6 months privously about wanting a house of prayer, of order, etc.
150 members or so, mostly poor, preparation well on the way but no actual beginning of construction only 6 months after and god goes crazy??? WTF??? I suddenly noticed that LDS god was like old t god and I did not like him at all and did not want him in my life or for all eternity for that matter.

Then started to face the things I did not like about the church, temple handshakes and passwords and all that, and decided to truely investigate. Ended up on Bob McCue's web page. It was the beginning of becoming free!! :) Thanks Bob!!!

I was teaching a primary class and I thought it’d be fun to show the kids how the Articles of Faith looked when I was a kid. I couldn’t find them on any official sources. Even conference talks on lds.org from the 70s had been edited to show the modern verbiage of the AoF. Then they published the Wentworth Letter in the Ensign and it too had been edited to the modern verbiage. At that point it was obvious that the church had no reservation about revising even insignificant aspects of its history, so I wondered what big things would it revise.

...we don't have the whole story
...it's not how it appears-
...anti-Mormons trying to make JS look bad
...sinners hating truth
...other churches hating a more successful church
...people who couldn't give up smoking/drinking/promiscuity
...people who are lazy and don't want a calling
...the academics are wrangling again and our apologetics will win
...it's a test of faith
...history was rewritten (!) by others

etc.

HOWEVER, when I went to a very spiritual and moving "pageant" regarding Martin Harris in Coleville in 1984 (?) and then I saw some behavior that could not be rationalized away. The same Mormons who were filled with the Holy Spirit spit (yes, SPIT) on my children because they thought they were passing out anti-Mormon literature. It was flyers for our family business.

I was so upset by the cog-dis that I could hardly drive home- shaken, I was horrified that anyone could come out of that meeting and behave like that. All the way home I kept muttering, "something is terribly wrong." That night all the other things, the history, the racism, the hatred of women, came back to me. That was the very first chink out of the armor of my cult indoctrination.

Mormons love their church so much they are willing to hurt young children. I was never the same.

Anagrammy

You can see several versions of the Artiles of Faith, 1841-1902, on the UTLM website:

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/articlesoffaith.htm

snowowl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can see several versions of the Artiles of
> Faith, 1841-1902, on the UTLM website:
>
> http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/articlesoffait
> h.htm

That's actually the same site I found too. Nothing too doctrinally explosive, except maybe that JS didn't write them, but it just illustrates the church's complete disregard for historical accuracy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2011 02:15PM by peregrine.

Growing up in a small moromon only area,,see many wrong things. I seen the lies and favoritism of certian people. I went along to get along. After I beat the bishops son so bad he went to the hospital. I was invited not to return. As soon as I left the town to go to college,,I bailed. Life is good now,,

Some of the things I've listed below apply both to myself and to people I knew.

Spirituality/feeling close to God? nope

Blessings for obedience? nope

Inspiration and personal revelation? nope

Answers to prayers, specifically to prayers for a testimony of the church or Book of Mormon? nope


After 34 years as a fully believing/ultra obedient member, I finally realized there was a problem. NOT getting answers meant something was wrong, and I finally started to question my previous assumption that it must be my fault.

The PBS special 'The Mormons' in 2007.

Prior to that there were several things on my shelf, but once I watched that show I realized that not only were the two most evil antimormon lies true, but there was a lot on that shelf that needed examining. Shortly afterward I googls seerstones and that shelf and the house of cards that held it all collapsed. Despite my panicked efforts, two years later it was still scattered across the floor. Nothing would go back on the shelf and no two cards could fit together.

Probably my 2nd biggest eye opener a few years before that was having a new member leave the church after his Endowments. It seems he was also a Mason and we had stolen his ceremonies. That was probably the most serious blow to my over all perception of the church and it botheed me for a long time that we were really just self-glorified masons.

1. My mission 40 years ago (England East Mission)
2. Polyandry and other church history issues 8 years ago
3. Reading the New testament without my mormon mindset 3 years ago. Finally it was time to leave for good last spring

For me it was definately a balanced combination of all of the above.

Long before I had by "lightbulb moment" where I *knew* it wasn't true, I had problems with doctrine, problems with leadership, problems with the tiny parts of history that I was vaguely aware of, problems with the lack of evidence for the BoM, problems with keeping "the commandments", and I suppose a general dissatisfaction with my life at church.

The "flapping butterfly" that finally led to me "investigating" the church was a flippant comment made by somebody at church about the September Six, when a friend was telling somebody about her plans to study Theology at university. I was intrigued, went away and did some basic research, and haven't stopped studying Mormonism and it's untruths in two months!

Church History.

An HP lesson on apostolic succession led to prayer circles which led to the Holy Order/endowment which led to the council of 50 and the dominoes really started to fall.

Prop 8 in CA was the last straw. Who am I to tell other people how they should live.

When the witnesses to the Golden Plates said they were seen with their "spiritual eyes" -- that did it for me.
It's all metaphysical, supernatural claims. Not an ounce of factual, scientific evidence. In short: there were no Golden Plates from any angel. Period.
Which means the Book of Mormon is fiction based on plagiarized other works, (including the Bible), ideas of the times, (where Indians came from), and Joseph Smith Jr's family history interposed on the characters.

What is so fascinating about the whole thing is that Joseph Smith Jr was able to create an American God Myth that is alive and well today in many incarnations, mostly thanks to the dictatorship of Brigham Young isolating the members in Utah Territory, which created a generational, unique tribe.

Once I understood how Mormonism came to be, I found it was created with the same patterns of almost all other religious God Myths throughout time.

And it still works.
It's faith based. No real evidences or facts are necessary, it's all about spiritual truths, just like almost all other religions of the world throughout history.

I concluded I have no believe in any of them, and have no need for any of them.

It was a gradual process. Even as a kid I had trouble with blacks and the priesthood, second class status of women, emphasis on JS instead of Jesus, lack of anything special for Christmas and Easter, boring, noisy and business like meetings,Pharisee-like rules, politics etc. I don't think I ever had a testimony. I stopped going about the time I left high school and found out more about the history later. Basically, it never worked for me.

A friend opened my eyes. I had never really had a testimony and you bet I had tried. Then a friend of mine who was quite catholic wanted to read the Book of Mormon and discussed it with me. He came up with all the inconsistencies and I came up with all the lame answers I had heard.

No real testimonkey + a fresh new point of view = apostasy.

B of A and the somewhat related Kinderhook plates incident. There is no remotely plausible explanation for either of those other than fraud. Everything then just fell into place. I carried all that guilt over smoking weed as a teenager for nothing? I really feel like burning a fatty right now... just for old time's sake.

superior tarsal muscles

I can't say I practised the religion long. I mean, I only had contact with the church and its members for about a year.

(I was raised in a protestant family in a largely secular, or even atheistic, setting)

I always had doubts. I mean, I really wanted to believe it. It all felt true. Not true as in logically coherent, but true as that the people professing their faith actually had absolutely no qualms or doubts in their religion.

That both inspired and intrigued me.

Despite everything I had read and heard, these people really believed in the message of Joseph Smith. So I decided that if they believed it despite the overwhelming evidence against it (oh god...) there must be something spiritual about it!

Sprituality, I thought, transcended the physical laws. As a child I had believed in miracles, in God actually doing things in our lives actively. I decided one day to ask my "friends" slash "LDS slaves" whatever made them believe.

"I read the Book of Mormon, and I prayed to God to know if the book was true. After that I believed that the book was the true revelation of the Lord"

(That was btw the first time I had heard that argument, but I believe it's fairly standard to say the least. I heard it on tv a few months ago even.)

What I wanted to hear was a Damascus Road incident. I wanted God to have a profound impact on their lives.

The argument provided was just not good enough. I mean, if you pray to God to know whether the BoM is true, you sort of already assume that God actually would have written it, and isn't that like a conflict of interest? I could write a book saying the world is flat and use myself as evidence. Any questionings would be addressed to me. "O mighty Jasonian, is it true that you wrote this book and this book is the true revelation?" "Aye, it is". No, I didn't buy this argument.

Still intrigued and fascinated, however, I asked a few more follow-up questions. "What impact has your faith had on your life?"

And I didn't get a real answer! I mean, they muttered something that they get better self-esteem and better school results and concentration and shit.

Heh.

After that I went to church again. And now it all seemed to hollow. It was just a shallow rite. Nothing in it. It just seemed... I dunno.

I have to admit that my first thought that service was "why do they believe this sexist bullshit?"

Heh. After that I moved away from town.

Early Church History:

Book of Abraham Fraud

Multiple and contradictory First Vision accounts, reinforced by the words of GBH (I think) that said the church rises or falls on the truthfulness of the First Vision. Either is happened or it didn't and the church is false. I learned it didn't happen and the church is indeed false.

Learning that JS and others drank tea, coffee, and alcohol well after the WoW "revelation".

Doctrine:

If God is a never changing, omnipotent God - how could he have been a man?

If there is only One God - how can we ourselves become gods and goddesses?

If Jesus' death on the cross was a free gift to save us from our sins - why do we have to "earn" a free gift?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2011 03:35PM by exmollymo.

I'm a multi-ethnic person- Part of my heritage is from the Dine tribe. I was always bothered that my ancestors were "cursed" with dark skin and called "loathsome." The "Curse of Cain" confused me as well- How could we not be held accountable for Adam's trangression, but African people were held for Cain's? And why the hell were the less valiant cursed with non-Cacasian features?

The sexism really got to me- I was also very spirited and strong-willed girl who was perplexed that my vicous and abusive brother could hold the priesthood, but I was not allowed to because my parts were internal. It made NO sense that abusive chauvanists were called men of god nor did it make sense that we weren't supposed to talk about his wife.

1. The first thing that scared me was when I found out about blacks being less valiants banned from the Temple until 1978 and on deeper probing the missionaries admitted that Mormon God is a white skinned man!!

I felt physically ill and kept it bottled up while I continued 'investigating'.

2. The face in a hat and garden stone. I was already suspicious about Gold plates etc but this was a real eye opener.

3. Book of Abraham Facsimiles. Obvious Bullsh** because no one understood egyptian at the time so Smith could get away with any old con here.

4. False friendships based on converting for the cult. I saw other investigators being blatantly friendshipped for conversion purposes but didn't think it was happening to me! How stupid of me.

5. CES materials lying all the time in lessons. Things like Smith being portrayed as a monogomist ideal husband made my stomach church.

6. Members being uneducated about real mormon history. I was fed up with being accused of reading antimormon stuff whenever I mentioned something true that concerned me.

The seminary teacher I had in grade 12 (I attended for 2 weeks...nefver went before or after ever again)...when he started to talk about "Kolob"...the mysterious planet where God lived, etc., etc.,.....well I'd never heard of the place so I went and looked it up in the Encyclopedia Britannica and it wasn't there!...and I thought WTF is that BS about?....so that started me giving serious thought about Mormonisn in general. I have never read the BofM....so don't have a clue what's in it other than what I've heard quoted in church pre-1971 when I quit going. Then as I studied more science I realized that the whole thing is a sham and fabrication...

Lots of things really. But one of the truly big things was when I did a LOT of bible study, including studying Greek and Hebrew, critical commentaries, etc. Pretty soon I couldn't sit in Sunday School class and listen to the nonsense without squirming in my seat. I had that sense that my eyes had truly been opened. I read the bible without the LDS filter on and it just changed everything for me. It was a really weird experience sitting in class in church and watching members twist the scriptures with their LDS filters on.

David Bednar

My childhood in the church seemed rather benign. There were times church was boring, and there were restrictions, but that was what religion was, right?

But after I was made a deacon, the barrage of guilt and shame started. By the time I was 19, I was a walking pile of self-loathing, even though I was doing an excellent job of being a good Mormon and priesthood holder. I was one of the ward golden boys, but I felt like shit because I couldn't get a testimony. What was wrong with me? Why doesn't the Lord want me to KNOW the church is true? Why have I had no validation? What have I done wrong?

Then there was the endowment. I was stepping up to the adult church, the REAL church. And... This is it? The goofy clothes and creepy ceremony are the gateway to spiritual enlightenment and oneness with God? What a letdown.

Next was the old Mission Home in SLC. Oooo, I'd get to see the venerated leaders of the church in the flesh and hear their greater pearls of wisdom. And... This is it? Old wheeze bags spouting platitudes mixed with total bullshit? These are the Lord's Anointed?

Then there was the reality of missionary life. We were out to save the souls of the lost, to share the beautiful truths of the everlasting gospel. But, no, we were high pressure salespeople being browbeaten by a lying, egomaniacal, delusional, dickheaded MP who was supposedly selected and endorsed by guys who spoke regularly with God. And we were similarly abused by visiting general authorities. There was nothing holy about these guys. It was just a business.

The last part of my mission I looked at my experience in the real LDS church and my belief started to crumble. First it was, "Okay, there are some ungodly leaders, but the gospel is still true, right?" Then it was, "What sort of God would allow men like this to represent his church?"

Back at home, back at USU, I heard a few comments here and there about all religion being man made. And there were psychology classes that taught about group control and manipulation techniques. As well as history and political science classes that opened my eyes about the quest for and uses of power. My mind started connecting dots. One I started THINKING about Mormonism instead of just DOING Mormonism, there was only one direction -- out.

I never studied the actual history of the church or read the few "anti" publications available at the time. I just stepped back, got some perspective, and saw what a pile of fakery it all was.

I was already pretty much out due to being a sinner and all, which was highly fueled by this feeling of not quite being enough, not being Molly enough or the "kind of girl" a nice RM would like to have as his eternal mate, but what sealed the deal for me to ever consider returning was when my older brohter spilled the temple secrets to me. I felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me. That is the ultimate glory on earth? The honor of doing those things is what's supposed to motivate me? Everyone I knew who had been the temple knew these things and still talked as if it was special?

I swear hearing about even the more benign parts of the temple was creepy, but when he got to the blood oath stuff I was down right terrified. That was it for me. Not for one single moment have I considered that I might return.

This is the order of realizations that I remember having. They happened about a year after returning home from being a missionary and took place over the course of a year after a break up with a mormon girl, which I attribute to putting me into a higher state of awareness about who I wanted to be.

1) Took an anthropology class and learned the solid evidence for the human family to have diverged from East Africa somewhere around 60,000 years ago.

2) Became familiar with Scientology and looked at their website, which had strange similarity to Mormon.org in the way produced videos describing people was presented as evidence to be interested in the organization.

3) Took a class in geology and became familiar with the 4.5 billion old earth theory, which led to me reading a couple books about evolution, after which I concluded my worldview of a "fall" to be completely wrong.

4) At this point I was open to and interested in questioning my assumptions about my identity as a Mormon. Interestingly I began doing web searches such as, "I hate mormons," or "I like Mormons" I think I was trying to figure out how mormons were actually perceived by people a larger number people around the world. I found that were quite a few criticisms from former members as well as non-member historians.

5) I ran into sites such as mormonthink.com and exmormon.org. I remember reading a lot of the stories. I then would do independent research to confirm the facts.

6) Overall, I knew I was headed beyond orthodoxy and organized religion probably before this point, but the realization that hit me hard was that my teenage suspicions turned out to be completely correct about the New Testament verses in the book of mormon. I remember thinking, "How could I have been so stubborn! Really? Whole New Testament chapters essentially quoted in the Book of Mormon? What was I thinking!" The book of Abraham facsimiles and temple ceremony history were the other main proof that allowed me to stop going to church and consider myself moving beyond my mormon identity.

The feeling was beautiful and mysterious and so also frightening. I remember the afternoon when my eyes were opened, it felt like waking up to a time before I had any concept of a mormon identity to when I was probably only four or three years old. My universe, my future, my social network all up in the air and now all completely in my control. It was the most pivotal moment in my entire life.

I want to renew that feeling and realization everyday, that my perception of the world and myself has the greatest power to give me greater control of my life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2011 02:49PM by Brian M.