What was said or done that got your wheels turning about the Mormon church? Did someone plant a seed in your head? Did you come across something on the internet that you simply couldn't turn away from?

For me, it was when my tbm sister was getting married in the temple and my whole family wasn't good enough to see her get married. Our DAD didn't even get to walk her down the aisle because he wasn't good enough. I hopped online and wanted to know exactly what went on in there that we weren't good enough to know about. That just opened my eyes to a whole new world! She did have a ring ceremony (LAME!) so my parents could see her pretend to get married, and at the end she asked my parents if that was "good enough" for them. That religion tears families apart. She used to be my best friend bu we have nothing now...

seeing my mother and father in the temple wearing costumes and veils,hats,etc. and and chanting pre 90'. I Couldn't figure out how they( especially my dad) could succumb to the cult. Later my dad told me he did it for my mom and to keep the peace and the family together. I knew in a heartbeat I'd been had when I saw them in the temple.

Well, the fact I was raised in a rural community where we were one of the few Mormon families allowed me to see how everybody else lived. All my school pals were non-Mormons and most of the guys I hung with from our ward were "rounders" like me. I got my drivers licence at 16 and started drinking beer and smoking with my pals. And although I went to church all through high school as a mark of respect to my TBM parents. Going to Ricks College and experiencing life in a stifling Mormon culture really turned me off. When I got home to southern Alberta for breaks I mostly spent my time partying....and lost whatever faith I'd ever had, if indeed I ever had any at all. I came back to Canada after one year and never looked back. Married a fantastic Catholic girl, raised 2 great kids who I never exposed to the "cult" and am very happy...oh, and the fact that in spite of the fact that my Dad was on high council and Mom was ward RS President, they respected the fact that my brother and I did not want to go on missions when he asked us "the question" and never brought the subject up again. I had a wonderful relationship with my folks and in fact I worked with Dad for many years.

You have a great set of parents. My TBM DH and I are kind of the same way. I'm more disaffected than my spouse but we've worked out a compromise where I attend SM and then leave if I want. Our kids are under 18 and attend all three hours of church. Once each of them graduates from high school, they can decide their own level of involvement in the church, if any. Now my TBM DH is hoping our son will go on a mission but I won't push him.

What about the mission bill? Will your son pay or will you and your DH have to cough up $400.00 a month for the two year sales trip?

It was a progression of events.

I remember not ever liking church at all. I thought the meetings were boring and the people plastic. I don't remember feeling "the spirit" when I did anything at church. When I was baptized I thought "that was it? Where are the trumpets and angels?" I didn't feel anything when I got the priesthood either, just a lot of hands pushing down on my head. The same can be said about going to the temple, I don't remember ever feeling anything people described as the spirit. The warm feeling I felt in the temple? They had the heater turned on.

I never felt a real social connection to the church, the only factor of enforcement was my family. Church was just something I had to do. I did believe it, make no mistake about that. I just didn't feel any of it. I thought everything was hyped up, once I grew older and got to experience the things people told me were the most wonderful experiences in the world, I realized they weren't. I got more satisfaction from playing Pokemon with my friends and camping in the woods than sitting through primary and Sunday school. Canoeing down the Guadalupe River is enjoyable and stimulating; wearing a white jumpsuit and tighty whiteys three sizes too small and getting dunked under water fifteen times in a row, not so much.

When I was twelve I had taken up arguing on internet discussion forums. I started out on a video game discussion board and eventually shifted towards a political board. I began forming my own arguments and trying to disprove others arguments. Eventually some "anti-Mormon" discussions came my way. I didn't accept any of it at first; rather than debate their points I just posted videos of primary children singing hymns to show how 'virtuous the church was,' and bore my testimony. I was trying to appeal to emotion rather than actually prove anything. I soon realized what I was doing and eventually began deconstructing Mormonism piece by piece as a result. I was determined to prove Mormonism was true, but then I discovered that I couldn't do it. None of the information added up, it didn't make sense to me. I discovered things about the Mormon church's history that I had never been told. That's when I realized what the Mormon church really is, a fraud.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 02:04AM by Strykary.

When i found out that the temple ceremony was a re-make of the mason ritual. Then that i had been lied to all my life about how JS translated the BOM. Then that they KNEW the BOA was a fake.Then, that JS had thirty some wives and lied to everyone including Emma about them. Then.......

I was on my mission when I came across a couple of "anti-Mormons" who were quoting stuff from Jerald & Sandra Tanners' books. I was curious what these "antis" claimed to have against the church. I bought Mormonism: Shadow or Reality read it thinking I could disprove it and defend the church against future detractors. This little gem of a book completely incinerated my little TBM "testimony." I faked it the rest of my mission and officially resigned a few years later after telling my parents I no longer believed.

I take it you are a nevermo. My oldest daughter feels like you do regarding her convert sister. She feels she is brainwashed and "in a fog". They had been close too. She also thinks they have nearly 0 in common now. So you are not alone. I was lucky in that this daughter did not marry in the Temple first. They had a civil union in just 60 days after engagement....really rude in my opinion to pressure a bride's parents to pay up all that money with so little time. Anyhow, son in law was not in good graces at the time so Temple was not even considered because they just wanted married. I had hoped she would never convert but his MOM got him back in the fold and after three yrs. of marriage she converted. I try my best to keep a good relationship going but it is hard if Mormonism is brought up. Can't believe she did that temple ceremony crap after her conversion. How can one be so brain dead? Now I have a grandson I must worry about. He has no choice but to be part of the cult. At least my daughter had a choice and she chose badly. It is so unfair to babies born into it.

Honestone, that is what I hate the most about the Mormons: they stalk children. Children are easily manipulated. Little 8 year olds are defenseless against adult authority figures, who give them false promises, and threaten them at the same time. Lying to children is unconscionable.

If a non-Mormon parent or relative tries to help the child, the church leaders turn the children against their own family members, telling the children that church critics are controlled by Satan. They taught my kids that that our family would be separated in heaven, for all eternity, because daddy and mommy were not faithful enough to get married in the temple. Not only was it all daddy and mommy's fault, but it is the little children's responsibility to bring mommy and daddy back into the church and to the temple! A family fight ensued. The cult uses children as weapons of coercion.

"The Family--the cult's greatest weapon."

Oh, back to your question. Witnessing the brainwashing of innocent children in Primary, first-hand, did it for me!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 03:21AM by forestpal.

And what exactly is said to these poor kids in primary. My grandson is 2 1/2 and I fear for him each day. He is so precious.I don't know what I will do when he begin religious talk with me. I am a Christian and my daughter was raised Protestant. It is going to hurt bad when he begins being told I am a lost sheep.

My daughter got love bombed for so long before marriage and she held out a long time, then this young married couple was in deep trouble and HIS family got her to convert....they filed bankrupcy (long story) and they lived with me then for 9 months. They move around like gypsies. No joke....7 homes in 7 yrs.I can't believe it. She was not raised this way.

Tell her that Jesus's Gift is so great that we do not need to do anything for it. Anything we do we do in love and grace and honor of Jesus's unconditional sacrifice for our salvation. The Price has already been paid and we are all already free.

I think that is the basic, real, traditional, actual Christian view of salvation, as opposed to the Mormon works view that interprets salvation as something you can only gain after all you can do, after you have done everything you possibly can, only then and on that condition are you saved.

It is weird that Mormons try to paint a pretty picture of Jesus, but he is really, for them, the Old Testament God (which is doubly weird), and of course he was a mean and jealous God.

So are you saying the god of the old testament is a different god than jesus?

Are you a polytheist? I'm confused...

I don't know what you are talking about or what you are confused about. Of course Mormons are polytheists. I'm not a Mormon. I'm not a Christian. I'm attempting to give advice to a Christian meant for the ears of a young Mormon in the process of being indoctrinated into an utterly false, cynical, and stupid faith. Yes, yes, Christianity is a fantasy too, and that's between "us" atheists, but I submit that a liberal, progressive, garden variety Christian Jesus is a lot better for people than a Mormon one.

I was always in fear of being called on to answer questions about some BOM fictional characters I did not have any clue about. The Mo royalty kids knew all about them. Always in fear of being called on for the prayer. We really did not do that at home. Terrified of being asked to give a talk, and was, since I knew nothing of mo theology (they have none) and my parents were no help.

Bottom line, I hated how they always dogged children.

I've been a jackmo my whole life (well until I had my name removed 3 years ago). I totally believed in everything and never questioned it. My parents and siblings (except my super mo sister) were all believing jackmo's. My super mo sister is soooo far gone. She got married to the worlds biggest tbm DORK ever and she is so far gone. When she found out I had my name removed she emailed me and told me that I am under the devil's influence. I would give anything if her eyes could just be opened! I wish there was something I could do or say to bring her out of the darkness :(

Ask her if Jesus would talk to someone like that who is a relative and who she KNOWS is a good person. Ask her if lies are okay if you are Mormon? She sounds like a real jerk.I would not want to be around someone so far gone.

Why couldn't your parents shape up just to go into the Temple ...or is their jackmo status still the case. It is so hurtful for a parent and siblings not to be there for a child's wedding. If I were your parents I would never forget that and I'd hold a party without them so they know how it feels. But of course what party could be good with jackmos and an exmo????



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 02:47PM by honestone.

When I realized that they wanted my mind to stuff into their mormon mold. I'm A selfish sonofabitch, keep your motherfucking hands off my intellect.

I think I knew when I was ten and I was sick to death of hearing about how Jesus was going to come again.
I refused to sing that song " I wonder when he comes again"

My BS alarm went off again when I heard about the MORmON battalian in LDS seminary. My BS alarm exploded, BS critical mass nuclear fission, when I was temple endowed. Secret handshakes and you want to cut my throat? WHAT!

It was my fault that I did not quit right then and salvage my chance to have a life of my own.
Instead, I allowed my MORmON male parent to bully me into line and went on a full time mission. It took me another 20 years to finally call it quits. I am so glad that I had a chance to tell my MORmON male parent to shove his MORmON church up his MORmON ass repeatedly over the later years of his life. It was the last thing I ever said to the MORmON POS before he died. and I meant every word of it. NO regret at all there. The end of my membership was the end of our relationship, not that there was ever anything worth having there before hand anyway. IT took me way too long to figure that out!

Wow, Lucky. But it must have felt good to finally tell him just what you thought. I am glad you were able to do that. Any family member who pressures one to do anything religious that they are not inclined to do on their own does not deserve your respect

> Wow, Lucky. But it must have felt good >to finally tell him >just what you thought.

it really, really did. I only wish I had done it 20 years earlier, when there was still some chance of me having a real life.

my brothers were freaked out because I had not spoken to the vile POS in over three years when he died. I skipped his 50 th wedding anniversary party just 2 earlier. they knew we had bitter words the last time we spoke. He said to me all kinds of vile things, like he wished I was dead, & would suffer immensely. Since I started speaking to My mom again since the vile bastard died she said he didnt mean any of what he said. I told her that the BIG difference between me and him. I Meant every word I said! and I STILL mean it. I had told him that the LDS church would let one of the biggest PsOS that we both knew into their stupid temple, which was true because they did! but they would not let his own "NON member" mother in, who is one of the most honest ppl around. which was also true. I had NOTHING TO apologize for there.

I told him that I had no use for ANY organization that operated that way. and that he could go to his temple and to Hell with all his cheesy ass two face phony backstabbing fellow MORmON ward members, but he could count on the fact that I would not be around those kind of ppl and I proved it by not ever speaking to him again. so much for his eternal family based on MORmONISM!

When I learned about the three different versions of the first vision. That's when the first seed was planted, I think. I'd always struggled with polygamy growing up too- but I always thought that was my fault. Having something tangible that proved Joseph Smith made it up helped me realize it wasn't true.

None of TSCC's doctrines or practices were ever enough to cause me to doubt their truth. I am BIC and we are conditioned at a young age to accept TSCC as unwaveringly true. It becomes the framework through which we judge everything external as being true or false. When an external scientific theory contradicts "the gospel", then it is the science that is wrong, stupid.

Against this background, every doctrine or practice that didn't quite feel right was dismissed quickly. They were true, it was my understanding that was flawed...

But whilst I could mind-f**k myself in this manner concerning science - they are only "theories" afterall - I found the real history far too strong to dismiss. The real history that is taught by the September Six, and sourced from Mormon documents! When I realised that "anti-Mormon" didn't mean "dishonesty and lies", but that it was TSCC that was guilty of that, I quickly began a learning process that led me to *KNOW* that "the church" is not true.

Many things, mostly could not wrap my mind around polygamy being ordained of God. I read the reference of women like cows and then felt HF must not love me. The final question I asked was this: what would Mormonism be like today if the only additional revelation stopped at what was in the Bible and BOM? It really wouldn't be much different than mainstream Christianity and from what they say, the Book of Mormon and Bible contain the fullness of the gospel, yet the additional stuff found in D&C, PGP and BOA etc etc are what defines them and what they practice. The BOM contains no additional important revalatory life changing gospel information and is really just a benign, meaningless book.

For me it was a series of small things. Women not being allowed to say prayers in SM 1969-1978, the Sonya Johnson stuff, attending YBU my last two years of college and seeing the disgusting "breed 'em young" mentality, the Mark Hoffman debacle, then years later really investigating the REAL history of TSCC, PBS's "The Mormons," Prop 8, so it was a bunch of stuff building up over the years that gradually got my wheels turning.

before cal prop 8 was ERA and sonia johnson. my family said such terrible things about sonia, who was a 2nd cousin of my mom. They were actually happy when SOnia finally died of cancer, and said outright that it was her *reward* (/punishment) for having questioned & opposed "THE" church.
(GASP!)

Due to the negative comments in my family, I had a terrible mental image built up of what she must be like. Some kind of raging howling our of control shreiking maniac. WHen I finally saw her in this clip I was stunned. she looked just like my mom's oldest sister, hardly the raging anti MORmON ( GASP GASP) monster from hell that my family had played her out to be.

LDS Inc has never taken a real moral stand on anything! they cherry pick these issues, where they think they can get away with throwing their weight around and villifying some group over some issue so they can show off and grand stand, posing as a critical moral pillar of society,grabbing credit for their supposed moral stand, when they are really just two faced scheming opportunistic scum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbX61szWBQo

Hadn't realised that Sonia had died ... she was very much alive a couple of months ago when a friend of mine tracked her down, although she has left NM and the 'New Age Woo Woo' life she had there. Sonia was definitely one of my Mormon heroes. She taught me through her actions and writings how to look at the claims of Mormonism in a rational, dispassionate way; later she convinced me of the dysfunctionality of most 'relationships.' A thoroughly progressive thinker who brought 'joie de vivre' to the intellectual table, even as she relentlessly slaughtered sacred cows, she was - of course - viciously kicked to the curb by the geezers in SLC, who ensured that her life was left in shreds. The cancer thing was floated by TBMs for a long time as a FPR, I was hoping that Sky Daddy would arrange something else for Sonia.

Soar, Sonia, soar! You were truly one of a kind.

Are you sure your family didn't tell you Sonia died just to drop the subject?

About a year ago I read that she and a dear friend ran a little Bed and Breakfast near a natural hot springs. I think I would have heard if she had passed.. She was a bold, fearless woman and her books made a profound impact on me.

Raised in the TSSC I believed 110% and thought that the church would be the world's major religion in 10 or 20 years because of radio and television. Surely scientific discovery would back the church's version of early American history and marvel. The prophets of the church would reveal divine wisdom. The church's welfare system was the best, and governments all over the world would study and copy the church. I was a little kid, and believed all I was told.

Then I grew up. Two people, Gordon B. Hinckley and Sonia Johnson helped me see the church in a new light. One lied, one told the truth boldly, passionately.

I sent in my resignation the day after I heard the Hinckster was president. Later, I found a LOT of church history on the internet that had been edited out of what I had been taught.

All those wasted hours of my youth, studying that b.s.!!

1. Death of bro-in-law. When my amazing, fun, and good-as-gold bro-in-law died from a brain tumor, I looked at my then-husband and said, "He's going straight to Heaven, I don't care what anyone says."

2. Study Group. I was part of a select few in a monthly study group that met in the main building of the Harvard Divinity School when I lived in Cambridge, MA. We discussed and debated topics like The Death of Architecturally-Fabulous Mo-Buildings, Why Hymns Suck, P-Hood, Garments and the Temple, and more. We banded together because we all had issues with the morg we couldn't discuss in RS or Priesthood or Sunday School and wanted to remain in the morg, but also wanted to share our opinions in a safe environment without being exed.

During that time I was RS Pres, and before sleeping one evening had an epiphany and told my then-husband, "What if it isn't true? What if it's all a lie and the pioneers crossed the plains for nothing?" Since he didn't immediately respond, I felt guilty for saying anything out loud. A year later, he told me he'd been thinking about what I said that night and started investigating further. Within a year of studying the BoM and the Bible, we couldn't deny the contradictions in both books and left.

We were both missionaries, temple married, full-tithe payers, he the perennial SS Teacher, and I serving as RS, YW, and Primary President during our tenure in the morg. Yay. We've been out for over fifteen years.

Mormon meanness. Mormon meanness and passive-aggressive viciousness dispensed liberally under the guise of artificial sweetness, religiosity, and feigned-innocence. After I could no longer tolerate their vicious treatment towards people not like them, I read and studied the rest of my way out and finally, formally left the church. I knew what potentially was my future fate with regard to many of my good-Mormon coworkers, neighbors and so-called former good Mormon-friends. I knew this tenet well: it was/is better to have never been a Mormon than to have been one and made the conscientious decision to leave their brand of religion. I used to become saddened when I heard of people being mistreated simply for leaving the LDS church. Many of the more-holy ones very much seem to socially decimate and emotionally pummel dissenters with precision. They deliver their judgmental salvos, emotional sucker punches, divisiveness, and dismissiveness ‘ever so nicely’---slathering that nauseating childlike voice inflection with the perpetual grin from ear-to-ear in multiple coats, in my opinion, to throw the recipient of their intentional misdeeds off-course/off-balance. The sanctioned shunning and meanness: the aspect I most detested about their church all of the while I was a member. And, in the end, it was the defining feature that drove me to study about their history. The studying and reading eventually led me completely out of their church. The day I mailed my membership removal-request, I contemplated my probable fate. Naively, I hoped the membership would simply leave me alone. I knew, however, that leaving the church in my proverbial rear-view mirror held more freedom for me than remaining in it. As predicted, I’ve fallen into the good-Mormon crosshairs, it would seem, slated for social annihilation. Why? I dared leave their religion and am no longer easily duped by their synchronized methods of intimidation and manipulation. Mormon meanness: in my opinion, it is predictable and it is pathetic.

Believe it or not--I didn't leave over mormon meanness, though it was one of those HEAVY ITEMS on my shelf.

Gay, gay, and more gay. I married a gay. Guess who I chose over the LDS church? I know he didn't choose to be gay. I know he tried his damnedest as did I to pray the gay away. I was always someone who thought "If I just tried harder." When it came to this, I KNEW. Somewhere deep inside me I KNEW they were wrong about my husband and about me and my ability to be righteous enough to 'save' him. There was no saving that needed to be done. I'll always love him just for who he is--and he will always be a part of me.

Well stated, c12. Your issue and experience. I commend you and appreciate reading your account. Thank you.

The meanness. It wasn't the final reason although, like you, it weighed heavily. It, as stated in one other current thread, 'it got the ball rolling', in other words.

The LDS history with its wide cavern of 'actual', although hidden truth versus its magical thinking and sanitized version of historical events finished the task efficiently for me.

Once I studied the actual information/doctrine about the church which I was purposefully denied through omission in various church classes (including those which I taught to other members), I could not support the church and its brand of religion any further. Period.

A former "friend" of my wife's accused me of infidelity after a young lady who worked for me showed up at church after the mtg block when mrs truthseeker was out of state visiting her parents. The young lady came to church to see the gym because the student group, for which she was secretary, was trying to find a cheap off campus place to have their end of year banquet (and what's cheaper than a mormon chapel?).

The "friend" called mrs truthseeker and the bishop. The bishop, a young POS and former "friend" of mine, called me into his office wednesday evening and confronted me with the accusation. I told him it was untrue but he assured me that the spirit had indicated to him that there was something amiss in my life and he felt the accusation held some truth.

When the "spirit" is wrong and leads astray priesthood leaders blessed with discernment, etc, etc, you can bet the whole thing is wrong. That's when i started backing up and taking a much clearer look at what was really going on. I am a NOM and i only go to church to keep my TBM wife happy.

I can positively state that the tscc is based upon myths and lies cloaked in small bits of truth to make it palatable to TBMs and sound good to the poor folks sucked in by the missionaries.

5th (maybe 6th?) gen BIC here. First thing I recall is when I was quite young thinking it was nutty how so many of the people I knew bore their testimony saying that they loved coming to church. I didn't love it at all. Of course, I had plenty of good friends at church, but the only thing I liked about any meetings was playing basketball at MIA.

Later it occurred to me that it was absurd to have faith in something before deciding whether or not it was true, so I looked at the church from that angle and started to not believe. I had doubts about my doubts for some time, but I was determined to not go on a mission. I didn't want to get brainwashed into believing, and I couldn't try to convert people when I was very much a doubter. I took a fair amount of heat from my extended family for not going on a mission, but I was resolute.

By some circumstances, I ended up going to BYU. Frankly, I don't recall the entry process, but I must've lied to pass the bishop's interview. The good news was somehow I got through my whole time at BYU without having to have another interview. It was the Holland years, and I think things were a little less rigid. Plus, I started there living with my grandparents, and that may have resulted in some lack of the church/school tracking me.

Certainly, it was easy to encounter hypocrisy while a big time doubter at BYU, but I didn't personally make much of it. I was fairly circumspect about religion as a whole, and at least in my family I didn't see the church as any more manipulative than any other church. My family seemed happy and content in the church.

One of the bigger breaks for me was when SWK announced that blacks could hold the priesthood. Not that I was racist; far from it. But it was clearly taught to me that according to the prophets blacks would never be able to hold the priesthood. But that was a couple of years before I entered BYU, and while that was something I thought was inconsistent, I didn't dwell on it. I guess for the most part I just wasn't that into the church question one way or another other than I was confident that I doubted that it was true.

A significant turning point for me was learning that the Smith family were dowsers early on. I learned this among other oddities in church history classes at BYU. Those church history classes did more than anything to cement my apostasy. I have to wonder if those classes are still as open about some of the things we were taught.

I'd say that when I entered BYU I was a pretty big doubter, but not that committed one way or another. But by the time I graduated, I was in complete apostasy. Luckily, I met a girl who, while not as much of a doubter as I was, she was pretty close. We married at pretty standard BYU ages and both graduated at BYU while not attending church for virtually the entire time we were there after our marriage (non-temple).

It wasn't until a few years after graduating that I got around to resigning from the church. Of course the symbolic gesture aspect was gratifying, but more than anything I just wanted to put an end to the elders popping by. I was always friendly when they came, but told them that we weren't going to come to church and would appreciate if they'd not visit us. Of course, with every regime change we'd get visited and on it went.

So I finally did the paperwork to get us out (thanks Kathy Whitworth, RIP), and it's been bliss ever since. The wisest thing we did was not succumb to the pressure to let someone in our families bless our children. As such, the morg has no record of them other than the entries our families have made in the genealogy records. They're wonderfully happy atheists (I tell them that they have a lot of reading to do before they can make a firm claim on any outlook, but they like being atheists.), all 3 boys still living at home even though they're out of high school; just taking advantage of the financial benefit of going to community college while living at home. They're great to have around, and we're in no hurry to push them out.

Life is good.

About twelve years ago I was reading in the Book of Mormon, where Enos says he was raised in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. How could he be quoting Paul, I wondered. I decided to cross-reference New Testament passages that appeared in "pre-Christian" Book of Mormon passages. Not only were there a lot of them, but many times the BofM would take a New Testament passage as a starting point and then expound on it. I remember thinking, "OK, this is obviously not an ancient record. Now what?"

I soldiered along for another 5 years, thinking it was OK that the scriptures weren't literally true, as long as they were God's word. In 2005, a friend called me in anguish because he had discovered polyandry and Joseph's trading exaltation for teenaged girls. He was distraught and asked, "It's not true, is it?" When I told him it was, he said, "But, John, the church is still true, isn't it?" Right then I knew it wasn't. Every rationalization I had ever made fell like a house of cards.

And if you're miserable in Utah County, drop me a line. I live in Provo and enjoy meeting new people.

runnertx [at] hotmail [dot] com

Studying church history. After reading about so many failed undertakings that were the result of the prophet's "inspiration," I realized that the prophets weren't inspired at all - the church was NOT being led by God:
- Kirtland Bank
- Zion's Camp
- United Order
- Deseret Alphabet
- Plural marriage
- lying about church history
- etc. etc. etc.

It was this website,and all you fine folks here who helped me through the mud,muck and raw sewage of mormonism and looking at all the lies they told me,and Utah Lighhouse Ministries.

The mind-numbing nonsense that is the Temple ceremony. Being in ward exec committee meetings and realising that the leadership don't have any special powers of discernment or increased spirituality. Realising that most people at church are just kidding themselves that it's true and are hanging on to their own sanity by their fingertips. Having a business where most members rarely paid for what they attempted to buy from us. Realising that the average member is functionally illiterate and embarrassingly poor. As an Elders Quorum President, saying to the bishop "Look at me in the eyes and tell me honestly that you would seriously bring your friends to this ward. There is simply no way you would have any shred of credibility if you did." The bishop agreed. I left for good a week later.

Head in the hat imagery online whilst I was looking for Book of Mormon translation information for a lesson. Downhill from there.

Seeing Gordon Hinckley speak in person at a small gathering and thinking to myself "This bloke is just a doddery old man rambling on about nothing, and his wife clearly doesn't want to be here." Realising that the president of the church is just like the CEO of a multinational company. Nothing spiritual about them, whatsoever.

I was in Senior Primary. We were singing Families Can Be Together Forever, and the thought crossed my mind that I didn't want to spend eternity with my family because I didn't even like spending time with them here.

Then as I got older (maybe age 12 or so?) the Word of Wisdom never sat right with me. It was awfully convenient that Emma was upset about Joe's friends spitting tobacco all over the temple, and then suddenly God says "Hey, tobacco is bad! Quit using it!"

I never liked that in Young Women's they always told us we should go to college so that we could have a skill so that we could work in case our husbands are ever unable to--but really, don't plan on working because you're just supposed to sit home and pop out babies. None of my YW leaders ever had a career. But of those of us in that group, apparently the lesson didn't stick because I own my own business, one girl is going to med school, one has her MBA and is a higher-up at a fitness company, and one is working in Washington DC (something political) None of us married at 19, all of us graduated college and none of us have kids yet (late 20s) And most of us are apostates =)

Things that bothered me, that I swept under the rug:
Blacks and priesthood
Connection between masonry and temple rituals
Brigham Young
The salt laked-ness of the church
Push to marry young and have babies
Joe Smith running for president( to me that indicates megalomania)
Prop 8

Ultimately, I realized in full force last October/November how totally gay I was and how unhappy I was in my marriage and church. Totally active one Sunday, and totally out the next. Boom.

As a believer I expected certain things. From reading the scriptures, Sunday school, and from using my own brain about how God should work, I expected that if I did certain things, such as keep the commandments and my covenants, blessings would result. I had zero doubt of this. When the expected blessings didn't result, I assumed that I just needed to be more faithful for a longer period of time. Eventually, to save my own sanity I assumed that blessings might not come until the next life. This might have kept me a believer the rest of my life, despite my disillusionment in personal experience, until I observed that being less faithful, and somewhat rebellious, brought all those blessings that I was previously expecting. So I did like Alma suggested in the Book of Mormon and watered that seed a little, trying an experiment, as it were, and my tree grew.

I still wasn't ready to shuck the church, though, because I still "knew" it was true. I just had learned that it wasn't always right. I didn't have enough knowledge of church history to draw the line at where it was right and where it wasn't, and I wasn't interested in history enough to scope it out. One day I stumbled upon something on the internet that got that history wheel turning.

But I never would have discovered the truth if I hadn't observed opposite results from what the scriptures and church promised. I assume many TBMs either haven't observed what I had, or they have and are trying to spin it around somehow. Or maybe there's others like me who are only kept from the truth because they knew not where to find it.

1) The constant reassuring that all mormons go through; unending testimony meetings, etc. If it was really God's true church, would you need to keep convincing yourself over and over and over and over?

2) Conformity

3) Book of Abraham

4) Joseph Smith using polygamy to cover up his lust for women

5) Journal of Discourses

6) Old Testament


Those are just the first 6, there are a lot more where that came from.

<<<The constant reassuring that all mormons go through; unending testimony meetings, etc. If it was really God's true church, would you need to keep convincing yourself over and over and over and over?>>>

So true.

I know the earth is round. I know the earth is not the center of the solar system. I know that Barak Obama is the President of the United States. I know that Mexico is to the south. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen...

It just seems strange, doesn't it?

Anachronisms and things that didn't look right in the book of mormon. And this was before the internet, long before I knew anything about swords and steel and horses and elephants.

2 Nephi 29:"A bible, a bible, we have a bible, we dont' need another bible."

Yeah, right, 600 BC, how does Nephi know what a bible is? And at a time when holy writ was comprised of multiple scrolls, why would more than one volume of scripture pose any sort of issue for a jew living in 600 BC?

So, that one chapter got me thinking.

The GBH Larry King interviews. If a living prophet of God, cannot proclaim himseld boldly as such to millions of viewers, when given an opportunity to do so, what good can come from 60,OOO missioaries doing so?? It was shameful...

Oh yeah --- When asked on Larry King live if he was a
prophet, Pres. Hincklet said. The People sustain me as such... and then he said ..We don't need much prophecy now. AKA - I am not a prophet. We are expected to sustain him, but he does not have to sustain himself. Next time I'll say I don't personally know the man, did he say he was a prophet, seer and revalator?

The pictures ... Moroni visiting JS - first JS slept with his brothers - where are they? It was a small house with low ceilings, so maybe Moroni was really short. Then there is the picture of JS translating the BOM by looking at the plates using his finger - again not true - where is the peep stone. I love the picture of Jesus the church put out saying this is what Jesus looks like - looks like a picture of a westerner - give me a break. Lastly, the picture of JS and Emma - poor, poor woman - she should have listened to her father.

All these guys talked about were their toys back home (i.e. ski boats, lavish trips to Tahoe, motorcycles, cars, etc etc).
We were all in the same district together in London. This was all fine until one day they admitted what their grand-dad/Dad were getting in living expense money. When I heard the actual dollar figures of what these guys were receiving, I about lost it, although I kept it to myself. All I pictured was my poor dad, working his fingers to the bone knee deep shit as a plumber, and my mother also, doing factory level work. Two wonderful parents, sacrificing everything to put me on a mission and pay their tithing, while these guys were living high on the hog in UTAH.

My mission prez was a brother to a Q15 member, and it was obvious that he coddled these two w/ special care and consideration. That bugged me too.

Yep', the wheels started turning back then.