Hell people--it amazes me that leaving something requires so much work! It is that time of year for me, when there is a birthday every month, the holidays, and then birthdays every month again and let us just say my timing is off. I worried for many weeks about one of my kid's birthday, do I invite the inlaws (we had it out about the church, I extended an olive branch to no avail). 1) I knew it would make me uncomfortable, yet they are my children's grandparents. 2) Would inviting them diminish the problem and then signal to them as many times before, that they can get away with treating me so poorly and continue to manipulate the situation. If any of you personally knew me, you would surmise that I am a lover of people and generally suck it up for the common good. The battle internally culminated to a point of is my loving nature being taken advantage of and how, if so, do I curtail it for my own personal welfare (stress is affecting the BP to the max). I then handed it over to my husband and see if he could come up with a way to handle it. His conclusion gave his parents an out and basically came up with two celebrations: 1) Pizza while I was out of town (SLC exmo conf. ;) ) and 2) Usual family gathering. I nixed the first one, thinking that I am not going to have 2 celebrations for each of my kid's birthdays just to appease the grandparents. WELL, we did the family gathering in a public place and my FIL refused to speak to me or even say hello. My husband inquired and he said he is not ready to talk to me. The first day or two I was mad and then it lost its power. If I could sum up my life and my issue with it: I am purposefully ignored. If I were overly opinionated, always putting people in their place, I might accept this treatment as a result of my behavior, but I generally just listen and try to extrapolate in my mind what is being put out there and what environment is or was present. A friend thought maybe from listening to me that my mother was narcissist--I really just think she emotionally neglected me--but she was one of 16 (all the same mom and dad) and probably did not get much attention in her childhood--so she probably did not have the skills or example to model. My father worked the graveyard shift and never had much time, because his schedule was so off. My aunt who disowned me shortly before her death ( I adored her), had never been married nor had children, so that signals to me that she has never had to compromise or really work at having a relationship. My siblings have not spoken to me for 2 and 3 years at a time--would call--they would not answer--would email--they would not respond. Can you spell DYSFUNCTION? It is constantly reinforced that I am nothing, just a speck on the wall, maybe a perfect wallflower. Perhaps it is a hint to why I was considered a "golden" contact with the church--hell, I even had my own quad before I took the first discussion. I think my association with the church further disabled me for another 20 years. So how does one compose a melody without even recognizing one note? This is the conclusion that resonates with me at this point (it might change with my next breath): It is their problem. I do not need to fix it. I just need to learn how to deal. I do not like the definition of self-esteem. People would say I have little or none--I disagree--I like myself. I would say my self-image--how I internalize my environment leaves much to be attained. I think this "being purposefully ignored" is what infuriates me the most--maybe I have reached my quota for a lifetime and I still have a lifetime to live. Do I live it with or without certain people? I guess that it yet to be determined. I hate feeling this way--I hate feeling guilty for wanting to be loved, accepted, and validated. So, another birthday will come in a few days, the inlaws will be invited, we will see what happens.

Pitiful that I am learning what should have been learned in my youth, yet I am in the forty somethings category. Better late than never!

Still, they're toxic. I think it's time for your husband to take a stand and tell his parents that if they can't treat you with respect and basic courtesy that they have no place in your life. It really must come from him because it's something he needs to do. The shunning of his wife by his father is rude, disrespectful and it basically says that your father-in-law has no respect for your husband either. My daughter-in-law had to do that to her mother and you'd be amazed at how much better their relationship is now. Her mother actually sees my daughter-in-law as an adult because she stood up to her. She still doesn't like my son much, but she's polite and everyone benefits from it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2011 11:56AM by Rebeckah.

If your FIL can't manage the bare minimum of civility to you, then he doesn't get to enjoy time with his grandkids. End of story. Your husband needs to be the one to stick up for you and enforce this.

Kids notice more than you would think. If your kids see grandpa treating you poorly, they may one day come to think that it's okay for them to treat you poorly as well. Don't stand for this!

Don't chase after the approval of nasty, rude individuals. Spend less time with toxic family members and more time with people who support you and uplift you.

You are a lovely person and deserved to be treated well. It is not asking too much, especially in your own home.

My opinion? If your inlaws dare to ignore you in your own home, they should be invited to leave. It would be ideal if it was your husband, but if he can't or won't, then you should. The silent treatment is classic emotional abuse. It should not be tolerated. I know you want them to have a relationship with your kids, but your kids will see them treating you this way. Do you want to model accepting this type of behavior in front of your kids? They might learn to dish out that kind of behavior to others or they might learn that their grandparents are allowed to treat people that way and that if they don't toe the line, THEY will be next.

On the off chance that they are "gracious" and pretend that nothing ever happened (not uncommon for abusers), I still think the silent treatment needs to be addressed, in a setting that prevents them from heaping more abuse on you. Maybe a note or something (maybe talk to a counselor for guidance on this). Maybe even before they come over, they should be told what behavior is expected of them and that the silent treatment is not acceptable.

Tiptoes graciously described me as a "gentleman" for introducing her to IMWOnIt and her husband at the Exmo Conference...

Truth is, I knew both of them were far more in tune with the issues than I am and better qualified to address them (my dysfunctional family dynamics are different; Mormonism does persist unto the second generation). That made my task easy...

The toughest thing we need to do is learn to validate ourselves...

Hang in there; it gets a lot better, although it sometimes doesn't seem that way...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2011 01:01AM by SL Cabbie.

But good luck.

The first rules of recovery is to respect yourself, your questions, your conclusions, your wisdom as being every bit as inspired and much more valid for your life than the so-called leaders of the church. In fact, when it comes to your life, you have far more inspiration than any of them because only you know all the details of what you've been through.

The next rule is to require that others respect you. You would not allow a child to call you "shithead," would you? See--it's you who sets these boundaries. Your father-in-law must show you common respect, at the minimum, or he should NOT be permitted in your home. Your disbelief does not make you a second-class citizen, or a sub-human.

Your husband should understand that NO ONE is permitted to humiliate or shun his wife with his tacit or overt support. He should be 100% behind you. If he cannot "leave" his parents, he should never have married and should move back in with them. YOU are his top priority now, YOU are his family--they are extended family.

This is really not negotiable; however, you can negotiate with your husband as to what exactly constitutes decent behavior and "not shunning." And no separate birthdays--that's what they did with African Americans when racism was rampant--separate but equal. We all know that is still racism and separate but equal parties is still shunning.

Correct me if I did not speak for you, Cheryl! Hope your eyes are on the mend generally and do not hurt...

Anagrammy

Many thnaks, but no need to read or speak for me. Hope to see you soon.

Stop trying so hard!

The person who can walk away emotionally has the upper hand in relationships.

Why would you want to be around people who play rude and insulting head games.
You can't force them to like you but you CAN refuse to subject yourself to their abuse. Cut them lose and move on with your lives.

It is obvious that your husband has a hard time distancing himself from his disapproving family all the way, so you will have to do it for him.

Do it quietly and without fuss. The wife usually sets the social agenda. Stop interacting with them and find better things to do instead.

was and has been. I am and always have been the one who had to go along to get along. My therapist has told me we all have our roles.

Several years ago, I had a falling out with the sister just older than I am over damage she and her husband caused to my house. I never told her, but my dad did. Guess whose fault it became? Mine. I was ignored at the family Christmas party that year. Then at my parents' funerals--I knew something was VERY OFF. After their funerals, there was a huge blowup and 3 years later, things are still not good and, guess what--if she wants to be a part of my life (and her kids), then it is up to her. I just refuse to play her game any longer. I basically parented her children--but I told them I didn't expect them to pick my side and let them off the hook.

I was a people pleaser all my life--such as having 2 parties so the in-laws could attend. I did everything I could to get the in-laws to like me and one day I gave up.

It is amazing when you finally just get fed up and blow these people off that things can and do change. My in-laws (I've been separated 16 years) LOVE ME and beg me to come around. As for my sister nad her kids, I don't worry about it anymore. It is THEIR LOSS, not mine. They need me much more than I ever needed them. So be it.

Amazing how much better I feel about myself and life now taht I don't take the bullshit from most people. The only people I worry about how they feel about me is my kids--and I need to get over that. My TBM daughter at one time thought I was "lost"--and now as she ages, her opinion is changing.

Live according to how you CHOOSE TO LIVE. As my therapist told me about my parents--you get to decide what you will and wont' do for them and then do only that--and DO NOT respond to their tantrums as that makes me a bad child. I lost my parents--but what he told me worked and I had a good relationship with both of them when they died.

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."


;o)

No on having two parties. I tried that. Exhausting, expensive. I invite everybody and they can sort it out themselves if they to go. There are definitely lots of phone calls on whose coming. Some people come over later in order to avoid the offending individual. It seems to work out okay.

I have a little bit of a problem with these behind the scenes get-togethers as well. You're a package deal. I guess my thought is, if I'm not welcome, neither are the children, and why would you want your children to be around people who so clearly despise you? They are being abusive. Your husband should not be tolerating this and he should be demanding his wife and the mother of his children are treated with respect. He can visit his parents alone if he wants to. It's unfortunate because of course you want the kids to know their grandparents, but you have to remember these are their choices.

My mother can hold a grudge. After my divorce, any time she sees my ex, which is seldom, she wants to rip his face off. I have to remind her to be nice. This is no longer about me and him, this is about the kids. She can put a smile on her face and be pleasant for the short spaces of time they might actually have to share airspace. No one says she has to like him, but she can be civil. It's really very simple.

I'm sorry you're going through this. It's horrible that a religion can cause so much division.

Hmm... putting myself in this position...

I'm throwing a birthday party. I invite family. Family member shows up and rudely ignores me. What would Dogzilla do?



Dogzilla would first confront the rude family member. "I've noticed you seem to be avoiding speaking to me. Is there something we should discuss?"

:: silent treatment continues ::

"I see. You're not going to be speaking to me. First, you should know that I'm well aware that the silent treatment is a classic manipulation technique. It is abusive. Next, you should know that I am not going to capitulate and take whatever action you think I should just because you're not speaking to me. Your feeble attempt at controlling me will fail. Third, I think it would be in everyone's best interests if we set a positive example for the children and worked out our conflict in a productive and healthy manner. Finally, if you are not interested in handling this problem like a mature, rational adult, I'm afraid we will not be inviting you to any more family events. I do not wish to expose my children to emotionally abusive, controlling manipulators. Now, take a good look at those kids. See how fun it is to watch them play and play with them? It's too bad you can't just enjoy your grandchildren without having to try to play mind games with me. Clearly, trying to control everyone around you is more important to you than accepting your DIL for who I am and simply enjoying your time with the kids. It's your choice. You can continue this silent treatment or you can grow the fuck up and go play with your grandkids."

And I would totally drop one well-place f-bomb in there for effect.

Preferably this conversation would take place BEFORE the party so there isn't a big ugly uncomfortable scene AT the party, but you could also try to pull FIL aside and have this convo in another room. If he refuses to engage and just walks away, then you've done what you can to try to handle this like a grownup. You might follow up with a letter or email spelling out your boundaries (if he's going to refuse to listen to you).

Thank you all for your perspectives. This is one of the reasons I love this board because your outsider or more objective view can help me see things from a different view and perhaps point out things I might have missed, etc.

I told my husband to come online and read your responses. At first, like we are all at times, he took slight offense to what was said, but told him that it really had nothing to do with him (I reminded him that Anagrammy stuck up for him probably more times than me--introspection sucks doesn't it! Love my Anagrammy).

So, he called his mother and had a productive conversation about what was going on. FIL will most likely not participate--he thinks I hate him--which is kind of funny because I have only stood my ground once, yet I have endured many years of bashing, eye rolling, and blatant silent treatment. MIL will be coming with or without him! From my perspective (16 years of observation), that I would not have an issue with him had the environment of the church had not shaped his behavior. There is a certain amount of haughtiness that abounds in almost every aspect of the church--too much elevation of oneself and not enough remembrance that the thing we all have in common before the manmade labels characterize us, is that we are all human beings. So I am prepared for whether or not there is any progression in our relationship. My tattoo is very much serving its purpose and reminding me that I am okay for being me. Thanks for not "purposefully ignoring" me--I really do have lots to offer. ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2011 03:52PM by tiptoes.

Your father-in-law does not have specific instructions on how to treat the apostate he is not supposed to associate with. He is in a position like the robot in that old Twilight Zone episode who was caught in a loop of logic and burned out his wiring.

The church tells him to have nothing to do with you, so he pretends you are not there. Pretty silly, isn't it? Perfectly worthy of your understanding since you see both sides of the coin and he only sees one. Poor guy, just trying to obey and stay out of trouble with the church and the wife. And he loves his son, so sucks to be him.

Another step forward for tiptoes....:)

Anagrammy

My granddaughter's father is a controlling ass of a man. I told him about halfway through his relationship with my daughter that if he wanted them to work out he'd stop trying to isolate her from her family. After they broke up (because he kept trying to isolate her from her family) he blamed me. He still likes to claim I hate him. lol

Good decision. Congratulations on solving your problem!

Everyone gave excellent advice!

Yes, "the silent treatment" is ABUSIVE. Also, your FIL saying that you hate him is another very common emotional manipulation. In my experience, when someone says Person X hates them, the truth usually is that they hate Person X. Person X is sometimes totally unaware of this.

I have had to deal with similar disputes in my dysfunctional Mormon extended family, also. Usually, the more sensitive "victim" accepts too much responsibility. You, dear Tiptoes, have done nothing but live your life honestly, and attempt to include your in-laws, and attempt to be normal. The fault is not yours! You also don't need to explain or apologize. You also don't need to invite an enemy over to your house. You also, as a parent, don't need to force your children to love your enemies.

An example of you taking too much responsibility is--that you were considering having two separate birthdays. The children's grandparents should be grown-ups (though some Mormons never grow up), and they could easily take their grandchildren on a fun outing, or have their own private birthday party, or a shopping spree, or an overnight at their house with games and movies--or a gazillion other things. Don't these in-laws have any initiative? Again, it is not YOUR fault if they choose to sit in a corner and pout.

I got around this problem with my own in-laws, by having a large birthday party for each child. The birthday child could invite their school friends, cousins, and neighborhood friends, and we had a great time! The in-laws were too OCD and critical to be around all that chaos, so they didn't want to be invited, anyway.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2011 04:48PM by forestpal.

Oh my gosh, tiptoes. I could have written that about myself. So many similarities between us. It Blows. My. Mind.

...but you worried for many weeks about one kid's birthday. You're putting up with a helluva lot and I think you're terrific.

My mom always managed to come up with some kind of a token birthday gift, but I don't believe she ever actually "worried" about anyone's birthday. My father died when I was 54 years old. In that entire time, I never received a single birthday present, card, or letter. Not one time--ever. I don't think he worried about it at all.